Tonight at 7 on espn Olympic team versus... | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Tonight at 7 on espn Olympic team versus...

The overwhelming advantage for Team USA will be the inside game with Griner, Syl, and Charles at the 5 and Wilson at the 4 and Stewie at the 3 or 4. No one can match that combined power and height. However, the ball has to get inside which means two important things have to happen. One is 3 point shooting so the opposing guards can't sluff off or cheat to make the interior passes more difficult. The other is the secondary passing from the 2 guard and there is no one better at that than D. I worry about the team speed and 3 point shooting. It looks like Staley will be starting Griner, Wilson and Stewie up front with D and Sue in the backcourt. Pheesa can be very important to this team because she is a natural 3 on this team but she has to play with better selectivity on her shots than last night.
 
Reypl21 said:
Team USA is fine. They arent going to be playing against another team with that caliber of talent at every position. They havent played together long, so they lack the chemistry. The All Star team is in the same boat, but they were trying to win.
Expand ...

MSSportsGuy said:
The outcome tonight is not an indictment of the Olympic team but should be used to show areas where they can improve. It can also show how much depth the US has in terms of talent that a different group of players, most of whom could play for the US, can get a win on a given night. Additionally, no EDD, Nneka, DT and that's three more Olympian/All Star level players who could have shown up tonight.

The US should be fine if everyone comes to play. There is a new head coach and a lot of new faces that will take some time to gel. I don't think any other country has the talent of the Americans from top to bottom but in single game situations anything can happen.
Expand ...

eebmg said:
Well, it will be interesting to see the next exhibition game against Australia Friday July 16 2:30 PM EDT on NBCSN
Expand ...

- The U.S.A. just played it's first exhibition game against perhaps the best team it will play in the next month. No D.T., new players. Determined opponent. They'll get it together.

- One concern: I thought the U.S. was susceptable to what I call "forceful speed" -- hard, quick bursts to the paint and/or pull up jumpers. Arike O. and Courtney W. did this in the backcourt and J. Jones in the frontcourt. Here's the good news: there aren't that many Arikes and Courtneys in the world. And Jones isn't playing in the Olympics. Still, defense needs to be ready for that....Jewell has to get on the ball of her feet!

- On the other hand, no team will be able to address the waves of bigs the U.S. brings in. Yes, the Aussies have Liz C.,, but the U.S. has Brittany G., Sylvia F. and Tina C., with Stewie, A'ja and 'Phee coming up right behind the front liners.

I think the pandemic has -- like everything else -- had an effect on everything from players working with each other to, perhaps, some aspects of team selection. That said, ditto for most everyone else. Let's see how the U.S.A. rebounds against Australia. Stay tuned.
 
For those who claim that the game was just a meaningless exhibition;
Voepel's piece tends to rebut that position...

www.espn.com

Sue Bird on WNBA All-Star Game loss: Team USA learned it's 'not a team yet'

Team USA guard Sue Bird called Wednesday's 93-85 loss to Team WNBA in the All-Star Game "just the first step" as the team learns to become a more cohesive unit heading into the Tokyo Olympics.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

And Ogunbowale (even for those who can' bring themselves to recognize any class in her demeanor....I myself have been accused of that)
was at least gracious and professional in her comments.

The winning team and coaches are pleased by their effort and the results.
And Sue at least, took away the correct meaning.

Everyone competed, and the 4th quarter guard play was the difference...

Lots of fine USA players...lots.
 
.-.
msf22b said:
For those who claim that the game was just a meaningless exhibition;
Voepel's piece tends to rebut that position...

www.espn.com

Sue Bird on WNBA All-Star Game loss: Team USA learned it's 'not a team yet'

Team USA guard Sue Bird called Wednesday's 93-85 loss to Team WNBA in the All-Star Game "just the first step" as the team learns to become a more cohesive unit heading into the Tokyo Olympics.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
Expand ...
First of all, you're misrepresenting others' positions. For Team USA these exhibitions are a form of practice. No one has said they're "meaningless" because practice and preparation are indeed valuable and important. But to treat it as some sort of litmus test of committee decisions is just asinine.

How exactly does Voepel's article rebut that position?

The quotes from Bird and Taurasi are plenty eloquent. I'm happy for those individual players on Team WNBA who played well. They're great players in their own right. But as Diana said, the national team has bigger goals in mind than winning an all-star exhibition game.
 
msf22b said:
For those who claim that the game was just a meaningless exhibition;
Voepel's piece tends to rebut that position...

www.espn.com

Sue Bird on WNBA All-Star Game loss: Team USA learned it's 'not a team yet'

Team USA guard Sue Bird called Wednesday's 93-85 loss to Team WNBA in the All-Star Game "just the first step" as the team learns to become a more cohesive unit heading into the Tokyo Olympics.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

And Ogunbowale (even for those who can' bring themselves to recognize any class in her demeanor....I myself have been accused of that)
was at least gracious and professional in her comments.

The winning team and coaches are pleased by their effort and the results.
And Sue at least, took away the correct meaning.

Everyone competed, and the 4th quarter guard play was the difference...

Lots of fine USA players...lots.
Expand ...
Well...Nneka isn't a guard, so let the critics reload! lol I don't care what people say...the clearest indicator that the PRIMARY objective for Team USA wasn't just to win was the number of players who played and the minutes. Ten played and the non starters...played almost the same number of minutes. If they wanted to just win...versus get a feel for team chemistry and strategy, Stewart would have played the whole game and they would have run more than the 2 or 3 offensive sets they ran. Sue's comments do not contradict this. I missed the intro for the game...so, until the 4th quarter...I wasn't sure who was coaching Team USA. Then, I saw Dawn...relaxing. Ogunbowale is a great offensive talent, but beyond that...this juror is still not sold on her.
 
msf22b said:
I always thought Arike was a chucker and depending upon her was a mistake.
But tonight Arike...and Courtney who was not chucking, hitting open. makable shots that she mainly manufactured herself...like 7 for 8!
Outplayed the varsity...big time.
To say that the so-called stars, were working on stuff is a load
They got beat...and beat pretty bad
and out-coached as well
As Geno says...Guard play prevails
As I said...I'm no Arike lover...far from it
But she and Courtney (who should have won the award)
were the class acts tonight
Expand ...
Is everyone forgetting about JJ?
 
This was the first time I got to really see Jonquil Jones play, and I was blown away. She is by far the greatest player I never got to watch in college!!! Absolutely amazing. A double-double against Team USA, contributing to out rebounding that team, and also almost winning the 3-point contest? I was shocked.

Having said that, this WNBA team convincingly beat the USA national team, which looked a bit tired and certainly slower. They committed twice as many turnovers as the WNBA All-Stars, and were out rebounded.

Coach Geno said that there wasn't much separation between the national team and players who could be selected for the national team, and we just saw exactly what he was talking about.

I'm guessing that Jonquil Jones can't play in the Olympics because Bahamas didn't qualify. Have I got that right?
 
Fairfield Fan said:
This was the first time I got to really see Jonquil Jones play, and I was blown away. She is by far the greatest player I never got to watch in college!!! Absolutely amazing. A double-double against Team USA, contributing to out rebounding that team, and also almost winning the 3-point contest? I was shocked.

Having said that, this WNBA team convincingly beat the USA national team, which looked a bit tired and certainly slower. They committed twice as many turnovers as the WNBA All-Stars, and were out rebounded.

Coach Geno said that there wasn't much separation between the national team and players who could be selected for the national team, and we just saw exactly what he was talking about.

I'm guessing that Jonquil Jones can't play in the Olympics because Bahamas didn't qualify. Have I got that right?
Expand ...
She has been playing on the Bosnia–Herzegovina team but they did not qualify.
 
.-.
Fairfield Fan said:
This was the first time I got to really see Jonquil Jones play, and I was blown away. She is by far the greatest player I never got to watch in college!!! Absolutely amazing. A double-double against Team USA, contributing to out rebounding that team, and also almost winning the 3-point contest? I was shocked.

Having said that, this WNBA team convincingly beat the USA national team, which looked a bit tired and certainly slower. They committed twice as many turnovers as the WNBA All-Stars, and were out rebounded.

Coach Geno said that there wasn't much separation between the national team and players who could be selected for the national team, and we just saw exactly what he was talking about.

I'm guessing that Jonquil Jones can't play in the Olympics because Bahamas didn't qualify. Have I got that right?
Expand ...
Jonquel Jones is from the Bahamas but plays internationally for Bosnia and Herzegovina (which did not qualify for Tokyo 2020).

In a EuroBasket qualifying game in November 2019, she torched Russia for 29 points and 16 rebounds. In B-H's EuroBasket quarterfinal loss to France last month, she set a FIBA single-game rebounding record (24), while again scoring 29:

www.fiba.basketball

Jones sets single-game FIBA Women's EuroBasket rebounding record

STRASBOURG/ VALENCIA (France / Spain) - Bosnia and Herzegovina standout Jonquel Jones has raised the rebounding bar at the FIBA Women's EuroBasket after the center set a new record in the category.
www.fiba.basketball www.fiba.basketball

So she won't be in Tokyo, but we should get to see her at the 2022 FIBA World Cup, for which Bosnia and Herzegovina qualified by virtue of its 5th-place finish in EuroBasket.
 
Last edited:
Plebe said:
Jonquel Jones is from the Bahamas but plays internationally for Bosnia and Herzegovina (which did not qualify for Tokyo 2020).

In a EuroBasket qualifying game in November 2019, she torched Russia for 29 points and 16 rebounds. In B-H's EuroBasket quarterfinal loss to France last month, she set a FIBA single-game rebounding record (24), while again scoring 29:

www.fiba.basketball

Jones sets single-game FIBA Women's EuroBasket rebounding record

STRASBOURG/ VALENCIA (France / Spain) - Bosnia and Herzegovina standout Jonquel Jones has raised the rebounding bar at the FIBA Women's EuroBasket after the center set a new record in the category.
www.fiba.basketball www.fiba.basketball
Expand ...

Wow!! So is Jonquel Jones the best player in the WNBA? She shoots a higher percentage from three than Breanna Stewart, rips down more rebounds, scores more. But she doesn't block as many shots. Just shocked she's so good!
 
Fairfield Fan said:
Wow!! So is Jonquel Jones the best player in the WNBA? She shoots a higher percentage from three than Breanna Stewart, rips down more rebounds, scores more. But she doesn't block as many shots. Just shocked she's so good!
Expand ...

I've been following her since she started playing at GW (in part because of the ND coaching connection at the time). She's always had the physical tools and has progressively gotten better. However, she seems to have taken it to a whole new level the last year. She's got some serious first-step/burst speed on drives and/or for going after offensive rebounds.
 
Fairfield Fan said:
Wow!! So is Jonquel Jones the best player in the WNBA? She shoots a higher percentage from three than Breanna Stewart, rips down more rebounds, scores more. But she doesn't block as many shots. Just shocked she's so good!
Expand ...
Jonquel and Tina seem to be the current front-runners for season MVP. Stewie and A'ja are both in the conversation as well.
 
USA will be more than fine at the Olympics.

That being said, if we're being nitpicky, they don't seem to have a player that can be "instant offense" off the bench--the way Angel was the previous two Olympics.

If DT starts over Loyd, Loyd could definitely fill that role, and maybe SDS/Gray, though they are both more point guards at this point. The one thing about players like Arike and C. Williams is they can get a shot anytime they want. As others have noted, they don't always go in, but they are able to make offense for themselves even when a play breaks down.
 
BBallF said:
So my take on it is we need more 3 point shooting with consistency which will be D's mission and a better secondary passer which is also D. The weaknesses are shooting from deep, lack of speed in the backcourt both offensively and defensively and ball handling by everyone. They can only get better.
Expand ...
When Stewie and A'ja are second and 3rd in assists while the backcourt has 26 total points you know where the problem is. All the long rebounds went to the WNBA all stars.
 
.-.
baggerbob said:
When Stewie and A'ja are second and 3rd in assists while the backcourt has 26 total points you know where the problem is. All the long rebounds went to the WNBA all stars.
Expand ...
All true. That was team speed for the rebounds. After D and Sue, the backcourt is not stellar and there is no real knock down 3 point shooter who can create for herself. I think we have to just pound it inside over and over. The front court is very solid and I think invincible but there is little speed there also. We will see more Friday but I saw major flaws and it had to do with the team composition. I don't understand the lack of 3 point shooting swings. There is also the lack of a Lindsay Whalen type back up point who can spell Sue, dish and also score. The assists stat tells it all.
 
Dillon77 said:
- The U.S.A. just played it's first exhibition game against perhaps the best team it will play in the next month. No D.T., new players. Determined opponent. They'll get it together.

- One concern: I thought the U.S. was susceptable to what I call "forceful speed" -- hard, quick bursts to the paint and/or pull up jumpers. Arike O. and Courtney W. did this in the backcourt and J. Jones in the frontcourt. Here's the good news: there aren't that many Arikes and Courtneys in the world. And Jones isn't playing in the Olympics. Still, defense needs to be ready for that....Jewell has to get on the ball of her feet!

- On the other hand, no team will be able to address the waves of bigs the U.S. brings in. Yes, the Aussies have Liz C.,, but the U.S. has Brittany G., Sylvia F. and Tina C., with Stewie, A'ja and 'Phee coming up right behind the front liners.

I think the pandemic has -- like everything else -- had an effect on everything from players working with each other to, perhaps, some aspects of team selection. That said, ditto for most everyone else. Let's see how the U.S.A. rebounds against Australia. Stay tuned.
Expand ...

Your first paragraph about sums it up for me.

The international players are very good--see Cambage, Meesseman, Whitcomb, Jones, et al.--but the U.S. won't face anyone like Jonquel or Arike in Tokyo.
 
BBallF said:
All true. That was team speed for the rebounds. After D and Sue, the backcourt is not stellar and there is no real knock down 3 point shooter who can create for herself. I think we have to just pound it inside over and over. The front court is very solid and I think invincible but there is little speed there also. We will see more Friday but I saw major flaws and it had to do with the team composition. I don't understand the lack of 3 point shooting swings. There is also the lack of a Lindsay Whalen type back up point who can spell Sue, dish and also score. The assists stat tells it all.
Expand ...
Chelsea Gray is that backup PG. She's arguably a better scorer than Sue at this point in their careers (much more dangerous going to the basket) and is currently second in the league in apg (on Wed night, she had 7pts and 3 assists in 18min).

As for 3pt shooting, I believe Atkins is on the team to be a 3 and D player off the bench. She's shooting 40% from 3pt range this season, and made 2/3 on Wed night. Bird remains a deady 3-point shooter, and Loyd was in the 3-pt contest for a reason.

They'll be fine.
 
My suspicion is that this was Dawn pulling a Geno move. How do you get the attention of bunch of superstars? Let them lose a game or two. Now they realize that they need to be on board with the game plan to be successful. Just a feeling.
 
.-.
Richard Cohen of "Her Hoops Stats" weighs in on some aspects of the All-Star Game. Please go to the link for his views on the U.S. "3" spot and Breanna Stewart being in. I've cut and pasted the segment about a person that "wants the ball," as Arike (no surprise) and Courtney Williams did. We've seen variations on this take on The Boneyard, but interesting to see it from another source.

"The other primary element that Wednesday night seemed to highlight about Team USA was their lack of a player like the MVP of the game, Arike Ogunbowale. The US obviously have a lot of people who can get their shot whenever they want. But they have a lot of guards who are willing to sit back and wait, or pick their moments. Jewell Loyd, Ariel Atkins, Sue Bird, Chelsea Gray and even modern-day Diana Taurasi are often willing to play a secondary role offensively to high-scoring teammates - Ogunbowale wants the ball and wants to shoot.

"This obviously comes with negatives as well - when the ball isn't dropping, that kind of player can shoot you out of games just as easily as they can win them - but Ogunbowale is the sort of player who forces the action. Team USA sometimes feels just a little bit too nice. Everyone recognizes how good everyone else is, and wants to make the extra pass or the 'right' play. Sometimes you just want them to illustrate that they're the best basketball players on Earth and go get a bucket.

"Of course, none of this is likely to matter. There are some good teams going to Tokyo, and on a bad night for Team USA an upset isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But typically, talent wins out. And player-for-player, as usual, the Americans are comfortably the most talented team heading to the Olympics. However, as Wednesday night illustrated, a motivated opponent can be a dangerous thing, even against a team that's won the last six Olympic gold medals."

I'll be interested in who "go gets a bucket" against Australia.... ;)

herhoopstats.substack.com

WNBA Dissected: FIBA say no to Nigeria and more from Week 9

Requests to switch nationality denied, Team USA lose out to Team WNBA, trying to judge teams more accurately than the standings and more from the world of women's basketball
herhoopstats.substack.com herhoopstats.substack.com
 
Just as a reminder of how hero-ball can run the bus right off the cliff, Arike's most recent outing before the all-star break was a 4-of-19 clang-fest in a 16-point loss to Vegas.

Las Vegas Aces vs. Dallas Wings - WNBA Game Summary - July 11, 2021 | WNBA

Check the game summary of the Las Vegas Aces vs. Dallas Wings WNBA basketball game on July 11, 2021.
www.wnba.com

And before that, she went 5-of-15 in a 6-point loss to the Lynx.

Gotta remember the Olympic format as well. All it takes is one bad game to ruin the party and end the gold medal streak. If that happened, how much consolation would it be that she scored 30 in an inconsequential exhibition game?
 
Dillon77 said:
Richard Cohen of "Her Hoops Stats" weighs in on some aspects of the All-Star Game. Please go to the link for his views on the U.S. "3" spot and Breanna Stewart being in. I've cut and pasted the segment about a person that "wants the ball," as Arike (no surprise) and Courtney Williams did. We've seen variations on this take on The Boneyard, but interesting to see it from another source.

"The other primary element that Wednesday night seemed to highlight about Team USA was their lack of a player like the MVP of the game, Arike Ogunbowale. The US obviously have a lot of people who can get their shot whenever they want. But they have a lot of guards who are willing to sit back and wait, or pick their moments. Jewell Loyd, Ariel Atkins, Sue Bird, Chelsea Gray and even modern-day Diana Taurasi are often willing to play a secondary role offensively to high-scoring teammates - Ogunbowale wants the ball and wants to shoot.

"This obviously comes with negatives as well - when the ball isn't dropping, that kind of player can shoot you out of games just as easily as they can win them - but Ogunbowale is the sort of player who forces the action. Team USA sometimes feels just a little bit too nice. Everyone recognizes how good everyone else is, and wants to make the extra pass or the 'right' play. Sometimes you just want them to illustrate that they're the best basketball players on Earth and go get a bucket.

"Of course, none of this is likely to matter. There are some good teams going to Tokyo, and on a bad night for Team USA an upset isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But typically, talent wins out. And player-for-player, as usual, the Americans are comfortably the most talented team heading to the Olympics. However, as Wednesday night illustrated, a motivated opponent can be a dangerous thing, even against a team that's won the last six Olympic gold medals."

I'll be interested in who "go gets a bucket" against Australia.... ;)

herhoopstats.substack.com

WNBA Dissected: FIBA say no to Nigeria and more from Week 9

Requests to switch nationality denied, Team USA lose out to Team WNBA, trying to judge teams more accurately than the standings and more from the world of women's basketball
herhoopstats.substack.com herhoopstats.substack.com
Expand ...

I typically like Cohen's work but I'm left scratching my head after reading his take on Wednesday night's game. He seems to be making 2 points. First, he seems to think Team USA needs a guard who hunts shots in order to be really dominant and prove they're the best team on earth. In the past 2 major international events -- 2016 Olympics and 2018 World Cup -- Team USA pretty much showed the world they're the best team on earth. The 2016 team was the best USA team ever and dominated that event. The 2018 World Cup team was not quite as dominant but still won pretty convincingly. Those teams proved to be quite capable of getting a bucket when they needed one. USA's leading scorers in 2016 were Diana and Maya and in 2018 were Diana and Stewie (playing the wing). USA has always had a style of play and that style has been wildly successful. Have they not been successful enough? Based on an exhibition game?

In terms of style of play, I can't ever recall a USA team that had a player who wants/needs to shoot as much as Arike. It'll be interesting to see if in the future USA BB goes that route. Maya Moore's first major WNT tournament was at the 2010 World Cup in Prague. Maya was young, excited and looking for her shot . . . a lot. Her veteran teammates thought too much and let her know about it. Geno didn't have to say a word and Maya learned how to play within the USA system.

Speaking of Maya, Cohen's second point is about the 3 (wing) position on Team USA. I agree with his overall point but his memory is a bit off. He writes: "Wednesday night was an indication that Dawn Staley still seems to view Stewart as a regular wing option. It would be a stretch to call the position a 'hole', but the US haven't really played with a natural 3 at a major tournament since Tamika Catchings retired (and Angel McCoughtry started picking up major injuries)."

He's right that the wing position is an issue but he seems to have forgotten that Maya Moore was the natural 3 who played that position for Team USA in 2010, 2012, 2014 and 2016. Geno created a bit of a controversy in London in 2012 when he sat Parker and inserted Maya in to the starting lineup at the wing. He did this because the spacing with Charles, Parker and Catchings playing together was terrible and the offense bogged down. The same thing happened in Tenerife in 2018 when Dawn started Griner, Charles/Nneka and Stewart. That lineup forced Stewie to the wing where she played great (won MOP), but it is not her natural position and the offense didn't look great. It looks like Dawn plans to do the same thing with Griner, Wilson and Stewie. We'll see how that looks but issues at the wing probably explain why Nneka did not make the team and Pheesa did. Team USA is still searching for a replacement for Maya Moore.
 
Napheesa has not gotten in the game at all in the 1st half? Come on. :confused:

Any link to a box score?
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,522
Messages
4,580,390
Members
10,490
Latest member
7774Forever


Top Bottom