OT: Tom "Terrific" Seaver Has Dementia

[Madmannsucks]

I remember the Mets beat the Bucs in both games of a Dan Hurley by a 1 to 0 score in 1969. Koosman and Cardwell each pitched a CG shutout, and also both runs were driven in by the pitchers.

So I I typed D/H which should have said double header and it translated to Dan Hurley.

 

[Bezzz]

When I was pitching in high school, class of '72, I patterned everything I did after Tom terrific. From the way he took the signal, to his stretch move. Everything except, you know, his fast ball.

The one thing I took from Vida Blue was running on and off the field. Never understood why pitchers did a funeral march.

Not to mention, Tom's wife Nancy was a babe.

 

[uconnfan68]

And?

Since 1960, there have been 14 teams added to MLB. Besides Stengel, the only "first manager" among those teams with a retired number is Don Baylor of the Rockies. And he had three winning seasons and made the playoffs. Stengel had his number retired for his previous history with NYC baseball, not because he achieved anything with the Mets. How his # is retired and not Davey Johnson's is ridiculous.

And Casey was a LEGEND in NYC. Why would you care what the Mets did?

 

[The X Man]

Though he was 5-7 for the Red Sox back in '86 he was pitching okay. I would have much preferred Seaver starting playoff games instead of AL Nipper.

 

[storrsroars]

And Casey was a LEGEND in NYC. Why would you care what the Mets did?

Because having him manage the team in the first place was nothing but a marketing gimmick. Pure PR. Personally, I'm more for meritocracy when it comes to retiring numbers. The Payson's were cheap but there was no reason those 62-65 teams had to be as bad as they were. Their Pythagorean record under Stengel was 16 games worse than it should've been over his 3.5 years. That's incompetence.

Not that the Yankees are the model for retiring #s as they do it far too often, but assuming Wright will get his retired, they should also do Gooden before he's dead. Both contributed more than 50 fWAR and especially in Gooden's case, some of the greatest memories a fan could have. And 50 fWAR is a hella lot more than most of the Yankee #s that have been retired or received plaques.

fwiw, Piazza didn't even contribute 30 fWAR as a Met. More than half his HoF cred came from LAD.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Though he was 5-7 for the Red Sox back in '86 he was pitching okay. I would have much preferred Seaver starting playoff games instead of AL Nipper.

Saw Al Nipper pitch the 1st NB Red Sox game BTW.

 

[Alum86]

My absolute favorite athlete of all time.
Was too young to vividly remember ‘69 but ‘73 oh yeah. He was a money pitcher. When he got run support he’d beat you 6-1 and if he didn’t he would beat you 1-0, and double home the winning run himself. And Deepster is right, no statue of the greatest Met ever at Citi is a disgrace. There are groups that have pushed for this to no avail.

 

[Mister P]

My absolute favorite athlete of all time.
Was too young to vividly remember ‘69 but ‘73 oh yeah. He was a money pitcher. When he got run support he’d beat you 6-1 and if he didn’t he would beat you 1-0, and double home the winning run himself. And Deepster is right, no statue of the greatest Met ever at Citi is a disgrace. There are groups that have pushed for this to no avail.

Yep.Good point. One of the better hitting pitchers.

 

[storrsroars]

Not to mention, Tom's wife Nancy was a babe.

Tom & Nancy were popular enough to grace the cover of People magazine.

Couple of interesting things in the article - I recall the Dick Young muck-stirring about Nancy being jealous of Nolan Ryan making more money. Seaver hated Young over that, it was really the first time we got to see Tom's temper. That crap ran in the Daily News for a couple weeks. Pretty ugly.

The other nugget... Bruce (nee Caitlyn) Jenner's wife saying they were jealous of being compared to Tom & Nancy.

 

[Madmannsucks]

Tom & Nancy were popular enough to grace the cover of People magazine.

Couple of interesting things in the article - I recall the Dick Young muck-stirring about Nancy being jealous of Nolan Ryan making more money. Seaver hated Young over that, it was really the first time we got to see Tom's temper. That crap ran in the Daily News for a couple weeks. Pretty ugly.

The other nugget... Bruce (nee Caitlyn) Jenner's wife saying they were jealous of being compared to Tom & Nancy.

IIR that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Dick Young.

 

[Madmannsucks]

https://nypost.com/2017/06/15/behind-the-scenes-of-the-darkest-day-in-mets-history/

 

[storrsroars]

https://nypost.com/2017/06/15/behind-the-scenes-of-the-darkest-day-in-mets-history/

Love him or hate him, the man knew how to craft a quote that stung:
George Steinbrenner gleefully told Page Six: “I would never have traded him. He’s a star. New York is a star town.”

 

[uconnfan68]

Because having him manage the team in the first place was nothing but a marketing gimmick. Pure PR. Personally, I'm more for meritocracy when it comes to retiring numbers. The Payson's were cheap but there was no reason those 62-65 teams had to be as bad as they were. Their Pythagorean record under Stengel was 16 games worse than it should've been over his 3.5 years. That's incompetence.

Not that the Yankees are the model for retiring #s as they do it far too often, but assuming Wright will get his retired, they should also do Gooden before he's dead. Both contributed more than 50 fWAR and especially in Gooden's case, some of the greatest memories a fan could have. And 50 fWAR is a hella lot more than most of the Yankee #s that have been retired or received plaques.

fwiw, Piazza didn't even contribute 30 fWAR as a Met. More than half his HoF cred came from LAD.

No, they really earned those records 62-65. Of course it was a PR stunt to have Casey manage... isn’t that how you attract fans looking to replace both teams that left?
Not worth getting upset about.

 

[Alum86]

Didn’t Tom Terrific beat the Yanks on Phil Rizzuto day? The cow knocked the scooter over as well? Scooter was classy about it, of course. Funny.

 

[huskyrob1]

Seaver, Koosman (who was arguably the better pitcher in '69), Gary Gentry, Jim McAndrew, Don Cardwell, with Ryan making a handful of starts. IIRC, all had ERA's under 4, with Seaver & Koos under 3. Great rotation, but not the best in MLB history.

OK, so name some starting rotations (4 pitchers) that were clearly better in your opinion.

 

[storrsroars]

OK, so name some starting rotations (4 pitchers) that were clearly better in your opinion.

In my lifetime, '66 Dodgers, '71 Orioles, '72 A's. '64 White Sox (!). I believe the '93 Braves were mostly a four-man rotation. Before I was born there were a few AL teams that had great 4-man rotations.

 

[Marbles90]

OK, so name some starting rotations (4 pitchers) that were clearly better in your opinion.

Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Avery

 

[huskyrob1]

OK, so name some starting rotations (4 pitchers) that were clearly better in your opinion.

1971...... Seaver, Koosman, Matlack, and Ryan wore Met uniforms. I can't think of four pitchers who were better. I mean three HOF' ers? Maybe four someday.

 

[huskyrob1]

In my lifetime, '66 Dodgers, '71 Orioles, '72 A's. '64 White Sox (!). I believe the '93 Braves were mostly a four-man rotation. Before I was born there were a few AL teams that had great 4-man rotations.

Stop hiding behind your post. Name names like I did.

 

[storrsroars]

1971. Seaver, Koosman, Matlack, and Ryan wore Met uniforms. I can't think of four pitchers who were better. I mean three HOF' ers? Maybe four someday.

In 1971, both Ryan and Matlack were basically replacement level pitchers. Seaver had a GREAT year. Koosman was above average but not one of his better years. And who got into the HoF besides Seaver and Ryan?

The second most valuable Mets pitcher that year was Tug McGraw.

 

[huskyrob1]

Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Avery

Nice rotation but not quite. I remember Ryan throwing 15 strike outs in his 2nd or 3rd year with the Mets.

 

[huskyrob1]

In 1971, both Ryan and Matlack were basically replacement level pitchers. Seaver had a GREAT year. Koosman was above average but not one of his better years. And who got into the HoF besides Seaver and Ryan?

The second most valuable Mets pitcher that year was Tug McGraw.

I thought Koosman did, maybe next year. Lol

 

[huskyrob1]

In my lifetime, '66 Dodgers, '71 Orioles, '72 A's. '64 White Sox (!). I believe the '93 Braves were mostly a four-man rotation. Before I was born there were a few AL teams that had great 4-man rotations.

Please name names, for these teams. The Dodgers had two great ones but not four in 66.

 

[WhiteDressWes]

Casey was their first manager.

Saw my first Mets game at the Polo Grounds. Loved their run in 1969.

Was born in Brooklyn to a diehard Dodger fan while they still played at Ebbets Field. Never went to a game there though. In spite of that, I gravitated to the Giants, even after they left NY too.

My uncle showed up one day and took me to the Polo Grounds (from Hartford). This was their first home win, ever. At the time, this didn't make up for my parents taking the train to the last game at Ebbets Field, without me, when I was six. When Hickman replaced Ashburn late in the game, fans around me yelled at each other, asking who is this Hickman guy? Nobody knew.

April 28, 1962: Mets earn franchise's first home win at Polo Grounds | Society for American Baseball Research

 

[huskyrob1]

In 1971, both Ryan and Matlack were basically replacement level pitchers. Seaver had a GREAT year. Koosman was above average but not one of his better years. And who got into the HoF besides Seaver and Ryan?

The second most valuable Mets pitcher that year was Tug McGraw.

Replacement level pitchers? Ryan tied the major league record for most strike outs in a game the year before, 1970.