OT: Tom "Terrific" Seaver Has Dementia

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storrsroars

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Please name names, for these teams. The Dodgers had two great ones but not four in 66.
I don't even know what you're asking anymore. Sounds like you simply want rotations with HoF pitchers on it, even if they didn't contribute (like Ryan with the Mets).

To me, that doesn't matter. But as it does to you, how about the 1949 Cleveland Indians when they had Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Satchel Page - all HoFers.

I look more at stats like ERA+ and fWAR and focus on a single year. By which metrics the 93 Braves were the best starting pitching rotation in the past 60 years. And as has already been pointed out: Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery (three HoFers, although that really doesn't matter).

The '65 Dodgers had Koufax, Drysdale, Don Sutton and Claude Osteen. Again, 3 HoFers and Osteen was better than any 4th starter the Mets ever had.

Fwiw, in 1969, the Mets starting rotation was only 9th best in all MLB. The Cubs actually had the best rotation that year.

I'd argue with you more, but Gonzaga looks like they're going down tonight...
 

storrsroars

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Replacement level pitchers? Ryan tied the major league record for most strike outs in a game the year before, 1970.
And what's your point there? He was otherwise pretty poor. His highest K total was 15 in 1970. The record was 18 at the time IIRC. He only K'd 125 guys while walking 97. That's a lousy ratio. He didn't turn into NOLAN RYAN until 1972 with the Angels.
 
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And what's your point there? He was otherwise pretty poor. His highest K total was 15 in 1970. The record was 18 at the time IIRC. He only K'd 125 guys while walking 97. That's a lousy ratio. He didn't turn into NOLAN RYAN until 1972 with the Angels.
Let's look at 1972, without Ryan, the Mets had Seaver, Koosman, and Matlack was NLROY, his first full season. ERA of around 2. For the fourth pitcher throw in McGraw. I looked in Wikpedia, yes the ML record was 18 strike outs, the 15 by Ryan was a Mets record. Also Ryan had that high SO to BB ratio throughout his career. Are you saying he's overated just because he walked so many batters over 28 years?????
 
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1971. Seaver, Koosman, Matlack, and Ryan wore Met uniforms. I can't think of four pitchers who were better. I mean three HOF' ers? Maybe four someday.
Jim Palmer, Mike Cuellar, Dave McNally, Pat Dobson?
 
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I don't even know what you're asking anymore. Sounds like you simply want rotations with HoF pitchers on it, even if they didn't contribute (like Ryan with the Mets).

To me, that doesn't matter. But as it does to you, how about the 1949 Cleveland Indians when they had Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Satchel Page - all HoFers.

I look more at stats like ERA+ and fWAR and focus on a single year. By which metrics the 93 Braves were the best starting pitching rotation in the past 60 years. And as has already been pointed out: Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Avery (three HoFers, although that really doesn't matter).

The '65 Dodgers had Koufax, Drysdale, Don Sutton and Claude Osteen. Again, 3 HoFers and Osteen was better than any 4th starter the Mets ever had.

Fwiw, in 1969, the Mets starting rotation was only 9th best in all MLB. The Cubs actually had the best rotation that year.

I'd argue with you more, but Gonzaga looks like they're going down tonight...
FWIW I never mentioned 1969, but you did because you're argument stinks. However if you insist on dragging 1969 into this, Nolan Ryan did some stellar pitching in the 69 post season.
 
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storrsroars

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FWIW I was never mentioned 1969, but you did because you're argument stinks.
I don't remember the year but the Mets may have had the greatest starting rotation in the history of baseball. Seaver, rookie Nolan Ryan, Koosman, and one more....I think John Matlack?
Ryan was a rookie in 69. Matlack was a rookie in 72. How in hell am I supposed to know what year you're referencing?
 
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Ryan was a rookie in 69. Matlack was a rookie in 72. How in hell am I supposed to know what year you're referencing?
YOU brought up 1969, not me. Lol. Matlack pitched his first ML game for the Mets on July 11th 1971.
 
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Ryan was a rookie in 69. Matlack was a rookie in 72. How in hell am I supposed to know what year you're referencing?
You KNOW what year I was referring to, 1971. Like I said your argument stinks. I really don't think you're supposed to know anything.:rolleyes:
 

storrsroars

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YOU brought up 1969, not me. Lol. Matlack pitched his first ML game for the Mets on July 11th 1971.
And Matlack's RoY season was 1972. You, in your original post, which I referenced above distinctly mentioned "rookie Nolan Ryan" as part of your "greatest pitching staff". Ryan's rookie season was technically 1968, but I was giving you benefit of the doubt by citing 1969, which was a better season for Seaver & Koosman.

I'm done here. No point in arguing with you further. Seems you need an Rx refilled. Until then, you're now on "ignore".
 
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And what's your point there? He was otherwise pretty poor. His highest K total was 15 in 1970. The record was 18 at the time IIRC. He only K'd 125 guys while walking 97. That's a lousy ratio. He didn't turn into NOLAN RYAN until 1972 with the Angels.
Tom Terrific struck out 19 Padres in 1970 tying Steve Carlton's 19 Ks of the Mets in 1969. The Mets won both games. Swoboda hit 2 2 run HRs to beat Carlton 4-3.
 
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And Matlack's RoY season was 1972. You, in your original post, which I referenced above distinctly mentioned "rookie Nolan Ryan" as part of your "greatest pitching staff". Ryan's rookie season was technically 1968, but I was giving you benefit of the doubt by citing 1969, which was a better season for Seaver & Koosman.

I'm done here. No point in arguing with you further. Seems you need an Rx refilled. Until then, you're now on "ignore".
Whatever, your argument was weak, and you never named four other pitchers who were better than Koosman, Seaver, Matlack, and Tug McGraw in 1972. Only criticized the Mets pitchers.
 
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Nice rotation but not quite. I remember Ryan throwing 15 strike outs in his 2nd or 3rd year with the Mets.
You keep mentioning Nolan Ryan as a Met. And yes, Ryan was a great Hall of Fame pitcher but not when he was with the Mets. He was a combined 29-38 with an ERA above 3.50 in his 5 seasons in NY. He did not become a great pitcher until after he left in 1972.
 
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You keep mentioning Nolan Ryan as a Met. And yes, Ryan was a great Hall of Fame pitcher but not when he was with the Mets. He was a combined 29-38 with an ERA above 3.50 in his 5 seasons in NY. He did not become a great pitcher until after he left in 1972.
For a young pitcher coming off an arm injury, he was very valuable for the Mets. In 1970 he tied the Met record for most SO's in one game (15). His stellar pitching in the 1969 post season went a long way towards helping the Mets win it all. A 3.50 era is bad?
 

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