TN ranking streak likely to end + And it does . . . (merged thread)

[rbny1]

I actually feel bad for Holly after watching her postgame interview. She looks and sounds so incredibly depressed. I hate the Vols, but no one should go through what she's going through. I assume she is a decent person who happens to be a terrible coach. She is paying a terrible emotional price for her lack of coaching skill. Yikes! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

[sarals24]

Why would the football fans care?

 

[sarals24]

I actually feel bad for Holly after watching her postgame interview. She looks and sounds so incredibly depressed. I hate the Vols, but no one should go through what she's going through. I assume she is a decent person who happens to be a terrible coach. She is paying a terrible emotional price for her lack of coaching skill. Yikes! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I don't. She's collecting a very nice paycheck for such a crappy team. I could coach that team to the same record for half a million dollars. Hell, throw in a nice bonus and extension and I could sign zero recruits too!

 

[Papa33]

I love the petition statement "...the University of Tennessee Lady Vols basketball program has went from national powerhouse to a complete joke."

Tennessee at it's best.

Probably just a careless omission: the petitioner obviously meant to write, "'the University of Tennessee . . . has [done] went from national powerhouse . . . .'"

 

[Woof 101]

Holly's post game Press Conference:

Not knocking the post, actually a good post. I will take the Husky high road though and say as much as I dislike Tenn, that was excruciating to watch. That is a broken woman, sad to say. She has had a long and storied career as a player and a coach but obviously way in over her head at this point.
Having said that I am obviously getting old and soft. A few years back I would have posted the video of DT punching the Tenn stanchion.

 

[Replicant]

They are playing like a WNIT team. 7-7 in conference, 11 losses overall.

Two games left in the regular season which they should win against Bama and UGA, but after the LSU flop all bets are off. They will not win the SEC tourney, so they'll have at least 12 and perhaps 13 losses. When's the last time a 12/13 loss team made the NCAA's?

 

[pacific 44]

Can we start a petition for Ms.Warlick to retain her position for at least another 5 years?

 

[UcMiami]

I actually feel bad for Holly after watching her postgame interview. She looks and sounds so incredibly depressed. I hate the Vols, but no one should go through what she's going through. I assume she is a decent person who happens to be a terrible coach. She is paying a terrible emotional price for her lack of coaching skill. Yikes! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I don't. She's collecting a very nice paycheck for such a crappy team. I could coach that team to the same record for half a million dollars. Hell, throw in a nice bonus and extension and I could sign zero recruits too!

Yes - she has a very easy way to get out from under - at the end of the year thank everyone graciously and retire. With decent planning she should have saved enough for a very comfortable retirement and she could probably pick up any number of gigs with less stress and better success.
I agree that she seems like a pretty decent human being who is totally out of her depth.

 

[rvwsleep]

While I agree that Holly is not a very good coach, she was able to lead last year's LV's to the elite 8 despite multiple injuries (including their best player). Same coach, different results.
Only some of the players have changed.
Personally, I think that this Tennessee team is the largest collection of over rated, low bb iq, terrible shooting players ever assembled on one campus. They can't shoot, they can't pass and they play with little to no enthusiasm. Other than that, they're not bad.

 

[FairView]

I love the petition statement "...the University of Tennessee Lady Vols basketball program has went from national powerhouse to a complete joke."

Tennessee at it's best.

Tennessee at it's best is spelling at its worst.

 

[SCGamecock]

I personally don't think they should be a tourney team. They are in 9th place in the SEC, 7-7 in conference and 16-11 overall. Their best wins on the season are:

Oregon State: 23-3, 1st place in PAC-12
Syracuse: 21-6, 11-3 in ACC
Chattanooga: 20-7 overall. Lost by 2 to Tennessee, 48 to UCONN, 43 to Stanford and 28 to South Florida.
Auburn: 18-8 overall, 8-5 in SEC play
Missouri: 20-6 overall, 7-6 in SEC play

Note how ALL of these wins happened early in the season. The most recent "good" win was against Auburn on January 10th. If I'm on the committee, I'd place significantly lower emphasis on the wins over Syracuse and Oregon State because they happened so early in the year, and greater emphasis on their recent losses.

They have steadily declined as the season continues and are seriously tanking as the end of the year approaches. After winning their first 3 games separated by 5 or less, they have now lost 6 in a row decided by 5 points or less. Multiple times they have blown late 4th quarter leads. Today's was utterly ridiculous. 4 missed free throws in the last minute, leaving your worst free throw shooter in the game late, fouling the opposing team 80 feet from the basket with 3 seconds left, etc. Many UT fans and myself hope they don't get in at this point in an effort to get rid of Warlick.

Mind you, this this is a team that has:
2013 #1 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2013 #3 overall recruit, 2014 NFOY at other program
2012 #5 overall recruit, 2013 NFOY by some media outlets
2014 #6 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #12 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #21 recruit, 2014 All SEC Freshman team
2014 #28 recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #42 recruit, McDonald's AA

Compare this to #3 Notre Dame when you look at active players on their roster:
2014 #2 overall recruit, 2014 ACC FOY
2015 #10 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #18 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #21 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2015 #26 overall recruit, McDonald's AA game MVP
2012 #33 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #39 overall recruit

Or #2 South Carolina
2014 #1 overall recruit, 2014 SEC FOY
2014 #7 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2013 #28 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2014 #35 overall recruit, McDonald's AA
2012 #40 overall recruit
2012 #46 overall recruit

Looking at this blindly, everyone would pick Tennessee's lineup. Holly has under-performed in her ability to develop talent, under-performed in her ability to build a cohesive team, under-performed in her ability to get players to buy into her system, and under-performed in her in game coaching abilit. Plus, she has no one on deck for 2016 and 2017. Dave Hart needs to get rid of her ASAP if the program has any chance of being a Final Four team in the next 5 years.

Wow.. I knew Tennessee was loaded with talent but I didn't it was that much. Meanwhile, seems like Dawn is doing okay with considerably less talent. Aside from Coates in the 2013 class, our stars are sophomores. Everybody else was ranked on the low end. Tiffany Mitchell was a project but she will end up being a major selling point for Dawn. If Dawn can get back to back top 15ish or so classes in 2017 and 2018 then I think we'll be in business for the post-Wilson foreseeable future.

 

[sarals24]

I think Diamond is toxic. Not saying she's not a good player, but drama seems to follow her around.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Two games left in the regular season which they should win against Bama and UGA, but after the LSU flop all bets are off. They will not win the SEC tourney, so they'll have at least 12 and perhaps 13 losses. When's the last time a 12/13 loss team made the NCAA's?

Last year.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Creme has TN as a #7 seed now (will be released tomorrow) and thinks they'd have to do something good in the SEC Tourney to move up from there. He does project nine teams in from the SEC. My Mizzou team and Georgia probably both punched their tickets with good wins today. TN plays Alabama and Georgia, two teams they should beat, but then they should have beat LSU, LOL! If they should somehow fail to win another game they'd be on the bubble... but one more win and they'll be in. Charlie Creme told me that he believes that Auburn may be in more jeopardy of missing the Tourney if the SEC only gets eight teams in. They have two tough games left and could finish at 8 and 8 in the conference and a lower RPI. I think it is accurate to say that Tenn will receive extra consideration if it's a close call because of their history (they've never missed the Tourney).

There seems to be more pity for Holly than anger. Being a good assistant for a lot of years doesn't automatically mean you're head coach material. She certainly deserved a shot -- but Tenn did take a chance when they hired someone with zero head coaching experience who had only worked at a single program under the same head coach for all those years. And maybe the biggest loser is Holly. The game seems to move too quick for Holly... her wheels are spinning but the game is going by. She's second guessing herself -- and letting others second guess her. It's almost like she reads the media and fans comments and changes things up based on what she's read. (Can you imagine Geno or another top WCBB coach doing that?) After relatively credible performances the last two years she just never found the handle on this year's team. She has been unable to settle on a starting lineup or any kind of rotation even after all her players were healthy and available. She still plays the antiquated Pat Summitt defend-and-rebound game and has been unable to come up with an offense that can consistently score against a decent zone defense. She pulls players when they make mistakes and they lose confidence -- in both themselves and their coach. She tends to keep players on the floor that never do anything wrong -- but who don't do nearly enough right offensively. She seems unable to adjust to the talents and flaws, strengths and weaknesses, of the players she has as she keeps putting them in positions and expecting them to do things that they are not especially adept at. (Just look at how she's used Deshields, Dunbar, and Russell!)

I will say that I knew - and many suspected -- that the expectations of the Tenn fans going into this year were totally unrealistic. There's no way to reasonably expect a freshman point guard and two players who hadn't played in a year to take you to the Final Four. But this team has under-performed even more than anyone expected.

TN boosters and fans are calling for Holly's head. Even Maria C. has stopped defending her and the players. But the TN athletic department has bigger problems right now so it's doubtful that anything is going to happen unless Holly resigns. (Could you walk away from $600K a year!) Still, there are zero recruits coming in for next year (unless they get some juco's or players outside the Top 100), none signed yet in the 2017 class, and rumors that some players may transfer or play pro in Europe next year. Fans are questioning the reasons Holly can't recruit. even bringing up her sexual orientation. There's also a disappointment that Holly is not developing the current players who look no better now -- individually or as a team -- than they did at the start of the year. Throw in tweets of discontent from former players, WCBB analysts, and some of the player's parents, and you've got one ugly situation.

 

[j66kicker]

On another note, as much as I dislike Tennessee, I always hate seeing players put through difficult pressers after losing. I feel for them.

Sorry - not feelin' it....?

 

[j66kicker]

Not knocking the post, actually a good post. I will take the Husky high road though and say as much as I dislike Tenn, that was excruciating to watch. That is a broken woman, sad to say. She has had a long and storied career as a player and a coach but obviously way in over her head at this point.
Having said that I am obviously getting old and soft. A few years back I would have posted the video of DT punching the Tenn stanchion.

Geez - I wanted to take care of that for you, but I can't find a video. I was there at TBA that day - one of the greatest moments of my life. At least here is an article on the game...

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/06/s...-by-taurasi-uconn-is-no-1-by-a-long-shot.html

Key excerpt:

KNOXVILLE, Tenn., Jan. 5— Driving to the basket as top-ranked Connecticut was putting the finishing touches on a rout of No. 2 Tennessee today, Diana Taurasi made a layup and was fouled. She went over to the basket support, which was covered in Tennessee orange, and punched it with her left hand.

''I just wanted to hit something orange,'' she said after the Huskies defeated Tennessee, 86-72, before 24,611 fans at Thompson-Boling Arena.

It was the largest crowd to see a women's college basketball game, surpassing the 24,597 who watched these teams play here in 1998.

I have zero sympathy for today's LV, as I didn't that day when soph DT hung 32 on them.

 

[bballnut90]

Wow.. I knew Tennessee was loaded with talent but I didn't it was that much. Meanwhile, seems like Dawn is doing okay with considerably less talent. Aside from Coates in the 2013 class, our stars are sophomores. Everybody else was ranked on the low end. Tiffany Mitchell was a project but she will end up being a major selling point for Dawn. If Dawn can get back to back top 15ish or so classes in 2017 and 2018 then I think we'll be in business for the post-Wilson foreseeable future.

2017 will be a very important year of South Carolina's recruiting, as they'll lose Wilson, Gray, Davis and Cuevas all in one swoop. They didn't land any big players in 2015 or 2016, so they'll need to land some top players to make sure the cupboard doesn't go bare in 2017-18.

Teams setting themselves up nicely right now are Connecticut, Notre Dame, Texas, Baylor, Maryland and Ohio State. Teams that need to pick up some steam or risk some tumbling are South Carolina, Tennessee, and Stanford.

 

[HuskyNan]

I actually feel bad for Holly after watching her postgame interview. She looks and sounds so incredibly depressed. I hate the Vols, but no one should go through what she's going through. I assume she is a decent person who happens to be a terrible coach. She is paying a terrible emotional price for her lack of coaching skill. Yikes! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

And yet, this decent person wasn't willing to apologize to the Moore family in order to restart the UConn-LV series.

I admit the video was tough to watch but Warlick is blind to the fact that the LV offense was not good when she took over and that it went from not good to bad to awful. How can a coach not see that? How do you not contact other coaches and get their perspective? At least Pat Summitt saw the problem, even if she couldn't completely fix it, and consulted Harry Perretta, among others I assume, in order to try something news. Bring in an assistant from, oh, Notre Dame or something and put in a twenty first century offense, for crying out loud. Yes, I see Warlick's genuine distress but she's laying in a bed of her own making.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Creme has 9 SEC team making the tournament. This I don't understand. There's only one dominant team and even they are struggling and the more the SEC teams beat up on each other. The more experts think its a great conference this year. They can't be watching the games.

I've said this in a few threads, this year. Remember the REAL Big East men's seasons; UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Pitt, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova and others would beat the stuffing out of each other all season long, then put 7 or more teams in the tournament. Fans would always complain about "East Coast Bias", and that most were middling teams at best, then 3 or more would advance to the Sweet 16. I think the SEC is the same thing this year, a bunch of really good teams beating each other up. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 SEC teams in the Sweet 16.

 

[Sonny44]

I actually feel bad for Holly after watching her postgame interview. She looks and sounds so incredibly depressed. I hate the Vols, but no one should go through what she's going through. I assume she is a decent person who happens to be a terrible coach. She is paying a terrible emotional price for her lack of coaching skill. Yikes! I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I agree.
Why do we have to hate the Vols? We are hating a memory folks. I'm not preaching here; just saying that it would be good for WCBB if they could make a come back. Same with Duke and UNC and even LSU IMO. We need to have 8-10 really good programs instead of 3-5.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Unfortunately last year Arkansas made the tourney with 13 losses. Lady Vols will make the tourney as a 7 or 8 seed unless they lose their last two Regular Season Games. Charlie Creme has 9 teams from the SEC making the tournament. Because the SEC has no Elite teams besides So Carolina that somehow means its a strong Conference that deserves 9 tournament teams.

Two games left in the regular season which they should win against Bama and UGA, but after the LSU flop all bets are off. They will not win the SEC tourney, so they'll have at least 12 and perhaps 13 losses. When's the last time a 12/13 loss team made the NCAA's?

 

[Kibitzer]

This Tennessee team is the largest collection of over rated, low bb iq, terrible shooting players ever assembled on one campus. . .can't shoot. . . can't pass. . . and play with little to no enthusiasm. Other than that, they're not bad.

Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

 

[Plebe]

Two games left in the regular season which they should win against Bama and UGA, but after the LSU flop all bets are off. They will not win the SEC tourney, so they'll have at least 12 and perhaps 13 losses. When's the last time a 12/13 loss team made the NCAA's?

Last year. Arkansas. 17-13 overall and 7-11 in the SEC. Got a 10 seed, beat 7-seed Northwestern in the 1st round, then got smoked by Baylor.

 

[HardHatGuy#2]

Can we start a petition for Ms.Warlick to retain her position for at least another 5 years?

A petition by UConn fans calling for her termination would probably have a bigger impact than the same from Vols fans.

 

[Bestiarius]

Yes - she has a very easy way to get out from under - at the end of the year thank everyone graciously and retire. With decent planning she should have saved enough for a very comfortable retirement and she could probably pick up any number of gigs with less stress and better success.
I agree that she seems like a pretty decent human being who is totally out of her depth.

Although Holly's coaching skills are sorely lacking, the current dilemma is not of her doing.

Going back to Pat's retirement, there was great support among the fans for Holly to take over. Pat wanted her as a successor and even said, "She's just like me." Management apparently agreed and hired Holly, then gave her a raise and contract extension.

I think most employees in her position would jump at a promotion and $600k+ salary.

Now those very same fans that supported her want her to resign and give up a significant amount of money for the "good of the program." Why should she do this? The current woes are the fault of Pat, the fans, and TN management, not Holly's. No one recognized that nepotism, inbreeding and politics is rarely a formula for success.

If Tennessee wants Holly out, the proper solution is to admit their mistake and honor the contract by either paying up or allowing the contract to run it's course.

 

[HuskyNan]

I've said this in a few threads, this year. Remember the REAL Big East men's seasons; UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Pitt, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova and others would beat the stuffing out of each other all season long, then put 7 or more teams in the tournament. Fans would always complain about "East Coast Bias", and that most were middling teams at best, then 3 or more would advance to the Sweet 16. I think the SEC is the same thing this year, a bunch of really good teams beating each other up. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 SEC teams in the Sweet 16.

I'm not sure how you can watch the SEC teams' offenses and call them good. I saw a ton of air balls and botched lay ups to last a lifetime.

 

[j66kicker]

I agree.
Why do we have to hate the Vols? We are hating a memory folks. I'm not preaching here; just saying that it would be good for WCBB if they could make a come back. Same with Duke and UNC and even LSU IMO. We need to have 8-10 really good programs instead of 3-5.

I think it would be best for WCBB is they made a comeback AND we still hate them.

 

[UcMiami]

I've said this in a few threads, this year. Remember the REAL Big East men's seasons; UConn, Syracuse, Georgetown, Pitt, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, Villanova and others would beat the stuffing out of each other all season long, then put 7 or more teams in the tournament. Fans would always complain about "East Coast Bias", and that most were middling teams at best, then 3 or more would advance to the Sweet 16. I think the SEC is the same thing this year, a bunch of really good teams beating each other up. I wouldn't be surprised to see 3 SEC teams in the Sweet 16.

I would buy that about the SEC if any of these incredibly good teams played strong OOC schedules with some of their games actually being on the road (TN excepted from that blanket statement.)
Getting to the sweet sixteen in the current format by being over-seeded into the top sixteen has become an easier proposition as you play at home for the first two rounds. Getting out of the first round when you get over-seeded into the 5-7 lines also is a lot easier as you are playing significantly weaker competition in general.
SC - good road win OOC - at UCLA unranked at the time but #14 now by 3
TAMU - at Duke ranked 14th then now unranked
Miss - only two road games in OOC at TX a loss and at unranked LT a win
Mizz - no ranked teams played OOC
KY - one good road win against #14 ASU by 4 (while they were struggling with injuries I believe)
FL - no ranked road game OOC but a loss to Temple on the road
AUB - no ranked team OOC but losses to UVA and at Marq.
Meanwhile the bottom of the league compiled great OOC records against nobodies:
Vandy - 11-2 OOC (and 4-10 since)
Ala - 11-2 (3-10)
OleMiss - 8-5 (2-12)
The one thing that really surprises me this year is that normally the pretty good SEC teams are able to defend their home courts in conference while throwing in a few head-scratching road losses, but they aren't even doing that this year - a sign of strength, or just really bad teams with no consistency?

Comparing the Men's game to the women's is always an issue because it is a really different competitive environment - but comparing to the women's big east where they also got lots of teams in, and usually were well represented in the elite eight and the final four would be valid - the SEC has had one team reach a semi-final in the past 8 seasons and likely will have that same team back this year. If they have two teams in the elite eight, that will be impressive to me.

 

[Tonyc]

Reading what Tenn fans are saying and watching whats going on makes me think back to when Tenn came after UConn Geno his coaches our fans our players and former players. For those of you who didn't live through it read this thread and it was much worse for all of us then what Holly is going through. Nobody felt sorry for UConn and we prevailed. As much as the LVs team was not responsible for what happened to UConn many of those people who were responsible are still there. Do I feel bad for Holly...yes. Do I feel bad for the players yes. For the program I have no pity because of what they did to us and what theyre doing to the present LV team. Do changes have to occur at Tenn to make the LVs good again. I think so but this is not the way to go about it. Its ruthless.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

Two games left in the regular season which they should win against Bama and UGA, but after the LSU flop all bets are off. They will not win the SEC tourney, so they'll have at least 12 and perhaps 13 losses. When's the last time a 12/13 loss team made the NCAA's?

If UT loses to Georgia, does Tennessee still make the tournament? Do they deserve to go ahead of Temple? I don't gamble, but after this loss, will Charlie Creme really have Tennessee in there? Seems to me that just playing a tough schedule shouldn't be enough to get selected.