TN over ND | Page 10 | The Boneyard

TN over ND

ND does not play a to of zone defense, but with fouls mounting and TN driving past all the perimeter defenders MM went to the zone a lot - it shows that they do not play it often because it was not a good zone, consistently getting out of balance and was occasionally exposed leaving players wide open - against a better passing team it would have been exposed a lot more.
It looked sort of like a 1-2-2 but the point was consistently getting over committed to one wing often almost doubling the ball on the wing - it was a strange choice rather than a 2-3 since Russell was a major concern in the middle.
 
bags27 said:
I am not trying to "rub this in," Orangutan. I don't think the coaching is quite as good anymore. The team lacks intensity because the coaching lacks intensity. Hope I'm wrong, because nothing floats my boat as much as a competitive ND.
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There comes a time in the careers of most people where the passion wains; that may be occurring with Muffet.
 
cockhrnleghrn said:
There comes a time in the careers of most people where the passion wains; that may be occurring with Muffet.
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I think it may just be frustration with this years team, rather than a real loss of passion - some years go that way in any walk of life when the work environment just seems to be stagnant.
 
UcMiami said:
ND does not play a to of zone defense, but with fouls mounting and TN driving past all the perimeter defenders MM went to the zone a lot - it shows that they do not play it often because it was not a good zone, consistently getting out of balance and was occasionally exposed leaving players wide open - against a better passing team it would have been exposed a lot more.
It looked sort of like a 1-2-2 but the point was consistently getting over committed to one wing often almost doubling the ball on the wing - it was a strange choice rather than a 2-3 since Russell was a major concern in the middle.
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ND came out in a 2/3. That's what puzzled me. It said immediately "We don't think we can match up with you athletically". Throughout the game they played variants of a 2/3, triangle/2 etc. They mixed in a littel man 2 man, but played mostly zone.
 
Ok, I lied, now I'm drinking *and* browsing the board. Don't see any video of Muffet's presser (for your schadenfreude needs), but here are the quotes.

Postgame Quotes: Lady Vols 71, #6 Notre Dame 69

Muffet's opening statement:
I thought Tennessee did a great job down the stretch. When they made their run, they rebounded. They held us to one shot, and I thought that was the difference in the game. We were outrebounding them in the first half, but in the second half, we could not get a rebound, especially at the offensive end. We were disappointed in our effort defensively, and our inability to guard the ball screen really killed us down the stretch. We talked about it, but we weren't able to guard them in the ball screen. We just made a lot of mistakes. To their credit, they took advantage of all of the mistakes we made."
 
UcMiami said:
I think it may just be frustration with this years team, rather than a real loss of passion - some years go that way in any walk of life when the work environment just seems to be stagnant.
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But this is the team she chose, that she put together: A number of tweeners with only some athletically gifted, guards that can't find the perimeter shooters or the post in the half court, and a team that devolves into 1 on 1 when pressured.
 
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Orangutan said:
Ok, I lied, now I'm drinking *and* browsing the board. Don't see any video of Muffet's presser (for your schadenfreude needs), but here are the quotes.

Postgame Quotes: Lady Vols 71, #6 Notre Dame 69

Muffet's opening statement:
I thought Tennessee did a great job down the stretch. When they made their run, they rebounded. They held us to one shot, and I thought that was the difference in the game. We were outrebounding them in the first half, but in the second half, we could not get a rebound, especially at the offensive end. We were disappointed in our effort defensively, and our inability to guard the ball screen really killed us down the stretch. We talked about it, but we weren't able to guard them in the ball screen. We just made a lot of mistakes. To their credit, they took advantage of all of the mistakes we made."
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Very gracious of her.
 
Could end up being a disastrous win for the Lady Vols. The call for Holly's ouster was getting quite loud and this win could help the administration justify keeping her in place.
 
Bestiarius said:
Could end up being a disastrous win for the Lady Vols. The call for Holly's ouster was getting quite loud and this win could help the administration justify keeping her in place.
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With the recruits coming in, Holly wasn't getting fired. Unless maybe if they didn't make the NCAAs.
 
JordyG said:
ND came out in a 2/3. That's what puzzled me. It said immediately "We don't think we can match up with you athletically". Throughout the game they played variants of a 2/3, triangle/2 etc. They mixed in a littel man 2 man, but played mostly zone.
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It also points to why all those easy wins on Uconn's typical schedule are so useful to Geno - he doesn't waste the game time by running up the score, he starts working new defensive schemes into the games, and at the other end spends the time refining things in half court sets. Getting Natalie going offensively in the last game is a prime example - she was as aggressive as she has ever been without hesitation putting up her shots.
 
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Watching this game made it clear to me why Uconn has reached such sustained success. Geno demands the best from his players and is willing to lose if his players don't perform. He demands every player to go 110% for all 40 minutes or they will be put on the bench. Compound that mentality with good talent, and uconn elevates to another level, a level that just talent can't reach.

There were times tonight when I watched Turner and Deshields play that I couldn't help but think that if they were on Uconn, Geno would have pulled them from the game. The difference with Muffet and other top coaches is that they seem to keep their players best players on the court regardless of how they are playing. They coach to win the game with their best talent rather than use the game as a tool to improve. There is no way Geno would ever allow Diamond to play complete disinterested basketball for stretches, nor would he allow an offensive talent to simply stand and not touch the ball for minutes on end. There were stretches where she didn't take more than three steps on an entire offensive possession. Zero movement. Remember when KML would "disappear?" Geno would tell her to find the ball and get involved or she would be on the bench. If Deshields had that motivation and bought in, she could be one of the best offensive talents in the country. She was great for stretches tonight and could really turn around the Vols season if she could put 40 minutes together consistently.

Similarly, Geno would never have allowed a talent like Turner to get to this stage of her career without expanding her game. She was solid defensively for stretches, but imo, how can she even be considered for AA when she is reluctant to take a 10 ft jumper. Geno would have pushed her to become more complete, otherwise she would be on the bench. Players at uconn don't earn minutes based on talent, they earn those minutes by proving they want to be playing and that they are listening to the demands Geno is making of them. They are buying in. We see it over and over again, players enter the program with certain skills and graduate as well rounded basketball players.

I guess the word I'm looking for is complacency. Other programs seem to allow players to be complacent and get by on their natural talents. Geno would never allow two players with that talent and athleticism perform at the level they are at this late in their careers.

Tonight I really understood how lucky we are to watch our team and watch the coaching genius that is Geno.
 
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Diamond is good... she should be carrying the LVs on her back even on bad days.

he one turnover was one to remember but she took ownership and kept playing hard.
 
UcMiami said:
It also points to why all those easy wins on Uconn's typical schedule are so useful to Geno - he doesn't waste the game time by running up the score, he starts working new defensive schemes into the games, and at the other end spends the time refining things in half court sets. Getting Natalie going offensively in the last game is a prime example - she was as aggressive as she has ever been without hesitation putting up her shots.
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Precisely. Well said. And so I lay the faults of this team directly on Muffet's doorstep. In the past Muffet's methods and Geno's had a sameness: Use the early schedule to identify weakness and prepare your team for The Big Boogie. I remember how devastating ND was in the half court both with their pace and their execution. Their ball movement made them the 2nd prettiest offense in WCBB. As I watched the game I saw a team not necessarily defensively challenged but offensively over invested in their own self interest. No pace, no movement. Her team has a leader in Allen, it just lacks the troops. I said before, no one on that team aside from Allen and Nelson, and maybe Turner seem to know their roles. On the last shot Allen had a better 3 point shooter in Ogunbowale wide open for the shot but didn't trust her to take it. When would this have happened on a Muffet team? This team has not improved since UConn played them. When has that last happened to a Muffet team? There's still time and all is not lost, but WCBB needs Muffet. And Mulkey and Alston and Tara and other great coaches. To this point however this seems Muffet's worse coaching job.
 
Plebe said:
At this point Tennessee is more likely to host the first two rounds than they are to miss the tournament.
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UT has been so inconsistent this all needs to play out.
 
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Bestiarius said:
Could end up being a disastrous win for the Lady Vols. The call for Holly's ouster was getting quite loud and this win could help the administration justify keeping her in place.
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She wasn't getting fired this year regardless due to numerous reasons. In reverse order:
-The Lady Vol former players all support Holly
-Holly is well liked by all the administration especially in light of the sexual pay discrimination that has imploded at UT
-Her record has been as good as many good to top programs in the country during her time.
-Holly can recruit and get the talent to go there. Yes, we all feel her coaching is brutal so leave that out for now. She does get talent and they can win despite her lack of coaching.
-She is Pat Summitts hand picked successor. Who in Tennessee wants to go against that until the program plays under .500 for a few years.
-Last and most important, she has 2 more years on her contract or roughly $1.65 Mil left and for a AD that is flat broke, they cannot buy her out and pay for another coach.

Sorry LV fans, you better hope she hires some good assistants to teach offense and post moves. For us UConn fans, we are quite secure that Tenn will not be a threat anytime soon.
 
Parity finally arrived (if you remove uconn), the team with the best center and best guard (according to MM) lost to the team with 2 no. 1 high school recruits. Both of them ought to win one or two champions in April based upon the player they have on their roster.
 
Does Muffet need a sabbatical recharging herself to coach the Irish better?
 
I have already congratulated TN for its win tonight.... but if I was a LV fan I would be so ticked off..... where has this team been? 15 assists? Only 9 turnovers? Usually DD is good for 6 or 7 alone .... I have never seen Diamond give a darn about competing as she seemed tonight.... usually it is just.... get me the ball and let me do my thing..... no regard for her teammates or how she is coached..... assuming that TN coaches do not teach her the selfish way to play..... even Doris Burke commented that this Diamond we saw tonight should be in place every game.... and she said it multiple times.... that in itself was telling.....

ND didnt play a stellar game.... do not know what they were bringing to the table tonight.... but they allowed TN to notch its biggest victory since its national title in 2008 ... 9 years ago.... Holly has many notable bad losses..... and victories in her 6 years at the helm..... only wins over KY, S Carolina, and Stanford stand out..... not exactly a notable resume.... so I guess for the TN haters.... we have Holly get some extra rope tonight..... so that is a happy thing for them.....

But my first thought from this game is..... DD has dogged TN with her play for a year and a half.... and has been such a prima donna.... yes I know our TN fans prob think differently.... but compared to tonight, the first time I have seen her really hustle and show passion and effort..... why doesnt she show it all the time? At any rate.... a good win for CHW..... back in the top 25 perhaps.....
 
JordyG said:
ND came out in a 2/3. That's what puzzled me. It said immediately "We don't think we can match up with you athletically". Throughout the game they played variants of a 2/3, triangle/2 etc. They mixed in a littel man 2 man, but played mostly zone.
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While it may be true that ND couldn't match up with them, physically; Tennessee typically struggles against a zone because they are so inconsistent from the outside and they play too much "street ball". When UT comes to Columbia in 2 weeks I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawn mix in some 2/3 zone and maybe even a box and one if Diamond gets hot from the outside. Tennessee has been awful on the road this season, though, so it may not really matter.
 
hussybulldog said:
Parity finally arrived (if you remove uconn), the team with the best center and best guard (according to MM) lost to the team with 2 no. 1 high school recruits. Both of them ought to win one or two champions in April based upon the player they have on their roster.
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Turner is the most overrated AA ... sorry I just do not get why she is held in such high regard. I have always seen more potential than output with flashes of some great plays but not dominance. I don't watch them much so maybe I am just missing it.
 
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Ozimoto said:
Precisely. Notre Dame went into a period of one on one play and let Tennessee back into the game. The Irish looked like they panicked and played scared.
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I thought the same about the ND defense. They played mostly zone in the first half, and it worked. Then in the second half, they played a lot of one-on-one and lost their lead. And when they switched back to zone (at least I think they did!) it was sloppy and ineffective.
 
cockhrnleghrn said:
While it may be true that ND couldn't match up with them, physically; Tennessee typically struggles against a zone because they are so inconsistent from the outside and they play too much "street ball". When UT comes to Columbia in 2 weeks I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawn mix in some 2/3 zone and maybe even a box and one if Diamond gets hot from the outside. Tennessee has been awful on the road this season, though, so it may not really matter.
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Unfortunately the good teams do what they do well and dare you to beat them. If your strength is M2M why play predominantly or zone or vice versa? No, Muffet got beat because her team played a worse brand of street ball than the other guys. I must admit I've never before seen Muffet's team's play this brand of me ball, and it ain't pretty.
 
Los24 said:
Turner is the most overrated AA ... sorry I just do not get why she is held in such high regard. I have always seen more potential than output with flashes of some great plays but not dominance. I don't watch them much so maybe I am just missing it.
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I figured that the key battle was the Turner-Russell matchup. I never dreamed that Turner would get outplayed by Schaquilla Nunn down the stretch.
 
Tenn cut off two options in ND's offense in the second half and it brought the Irish offense to a near halt.
I've seen most of Tenn's games -- this was by far their best.
Both of these teams have trouble on the road. The Lady vols were up for this game -- their floor, network tv, Back Pat night, etc. The Irish came out flat, regrouped, then collapsed at the end.
I've said this before -- Turner is way over-rated. She does a few things very well, but overall she is not as great as she's cracked up to be. And ND's handle seemed a little shaky tonight.
It's possible this win will turn the Lady vols season around... but then that's what they said after they beat Stanford... and Kentucky.
I hope the LV team we saw tonight turns up for the SC and Miss St games.
 
ocoandasoc said:
Tenn cut off two options in ND's offense in the second half and it brought the Irish offense to a near halt.
I've seen most of Tenn's games -- this was by far their best.
Both of these teams have trouble on the road. The Lady vols were up for this game -- their floor, network tv, Back Pat night, etc. The Irish came out flat, regrouped, then collapsed at the end.
I've said this before -- Turner is way over-rated. She does a few things very well, but overall she is not as great as she's cracked up to be. And ND's handle seemed a little shaky tonight.
It's possible this win will turn the Lady vols season around... but then that's what they said after they beat Stanford... and Kentucky.
I hope the LV team we saw tonight turns up for the SC and Miss St games.
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They've already played MSU in Knoxville and then they go to Starkville to play them again. Unfortunately, UT and USC only play once in the regular season and it will be in Columbia this year. Kentucky is our permanent home and away opponent. SEC WBB only plays 16 games, but MBB plays 18. I have no idea why.
 
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