This Conference Needs Us

[Adios]

I would pay my entire savings to get out of this league because I know in my gut what is happening to us by staying in it. It makes me sick quite frankly to be in this league for even one more year.

I am pretty sure UConn takes donations...

 

[jibsey]

One problem. If KO has a bad next year we still owe hin 17 million.

 

[BUConn10]

The key with Ollie (and what made this season's finish all the more frustrating) is the talent factor. Sniping over just how good our recruiting actually is aside, last year's class would've been good for #2 in the B1G and B12, and #3 in the ACC. You're someone who's very keen on us competing with the blue bloods, the Dukes and Kentuckys of the world - despite what our frequent arguments may suggest, I'd really like that as well. The only way to do that is to stockpile as much talent as we can given the limitations we're dealing with (i.e. conference and having a 5th year HC recruiting against HOFers like K, Cal, Pitino, etc.). Even if you disagree with me in that you don't think KO's player development and strategic capabilities will improve over time, there's something to be said such that the more talented players you have, the easier it is to mitigate certain weaknesses on the staff.

In my mind, Ollie is pretty clearly the only guy who can recruit as well as he does at an AAC level. And I am quite frightened of what happens when we don't have a 15-year NBA veteran whose unique personal background makes him especially adept at building relationships with prospects and their parents. I've seen a couple of people mention King Rice, the Monmouth guy -- how many Top 100 kids would he be able to pull here? How many McD AAs? The guy can't even make it out of the MAAC tourney. When you say "coaching free market," that's where my mind wonders, and it scares the heck out of me.

I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the odd season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller spurning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.

 

[Stainmaster]

I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the off season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller burning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.

You make some good points here. I don't have the time to respond fully at the moment, but I will once I get the chance.

 

[superjohn]

I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the odd season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller spurning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.

Stainmaster clearly doesn't think highly of the UConn program.

 

[DAC17]

The conference is killing our program and will continue to do so. This conference kills your seed and puts tremendous pressure to perform in early non conference. Our conference champion didn't even look physically superior to an 11 seed from the Power 5. The league is a joke and we finished in 6th! That's a warning sign.

Get out of this league or else it is over.

And, of course, the $64,000 question is...How do we do this???

 

[Devland]

Since the AAC started, it's 10-10 in the NCAA tournament

UConn responsible for 7 of the 10 wins.

There were a lot of years this happened in the old Big East also. Remember the years when Cuse, Pitt, Georgetown and Villanova were coughing it up in the tourney?

 

[champs99and04]

They were not under seeded. They just proved they were not under seeded.

When UConn was in the Big East did we schedule programs like SMU in high mid major leagues with high risk of losing? Would we play them at Moody? Of course not. The best teams SMU played out of conference they lost to. They feasted on a very down AAC.

And Cincinnati is not a "very good" team. I saw them up close this weekend. Very good gets thrown around a lot in college basketball these days. They are a good team. Nothing more.

SMU and Cincinnati going out in the first round against sub par Power 5 competition has nothing to do with the leagues stature? How about the fact the team that dominated the AAC didn't even look better than USC?

The difference between good and very good is hardly relevant to my point. Both are top 25 type teams that would probably finish 10-8 or so in a league like the Big 12. Nothing wrong with that.

It's tough to advance teams in the tournament. The 2011 Big East may have been the greatest conference ever, and they got exactly two teams - the ninth and eleventh place teams - to the second weekend.

It isn't as if USC beating SMU is some shocker. Probability models probably gave the Trojans at least a 35% chance or so of winning. Making sweeping generalizations about the strength of a team or conference based on a one point game might not be sound. That being said, anybody who thought SMU and Cincinnati were juggernauts that we shouldn't have beaten at least once in five tries is off base. The coaching staff did not do their jobs this season.

 

[Athlete94]

Because SMU and Cincy just arent capable of carrying the torch at all. They are good regualr season programs but they arent prime time. We must reclaim our rightful place. Enough!

How about we first start off by at least beating them..

 

[KingAG]

How about we first start off by at least beating them..

You missed the entire point...smh

 

[Athlete94]

You missed the entire point...smh

There is no point ...

 

[businesslawyer]

This Conference is DESTROYING us.

Who would want to play in this league?

And what does it say about our current state we can't even be competitive against SMU?

What it says about us is we're losers for criticizing the conference for our problem when other programs who started behind us aren't having the same problem.

 

[Walker11]

The difference between good and very good is hardly relevant to my point. Both are top 25 type teams that would probably finish 10-8 or so in a league like the Big 12. Nothing wrong with that.

It's tough to advance teams in the tournament. The 2011 Big East may have been the greatest conference ever, and they got exactly two teams - the ninth and eleventh place teams - to the second weekend.

It isn't as if USC beating SMU is some shocker. Probability models probably gave the Trojans at least a 35% chance or so of winning. Making sweeping generalizations about the strength of a team or conference based on a one point game might not be sound. That being said, anybody who thought SMU and Cincinnati were juggernauts that we shouldn't have beaten at least once in five tries is off base. The coaching staff did not do their jobs this season.

This shouldn't be hard to realize but somehow it is. March Madness is the most fun way to determine a champion, but it's certainly not the ideal way to determine the best team. There's a reason the big boy league plays 7 game series' (couldn't help myself).

 

[KingAG]

There is no point ...

Ok i'll take the bait. First off. We've beaten Cincy and smu our fair share of times save for this year. If you want to base everything off of this yr have fun. Now that ive adressed the idiocy of "can we beat them first". For the sake od argumemt say in the 4 yrs the AAC has been a league, we went 0- for against both cincy and SMU, that still has nothing to do with my point. UConn is the only program in this conference with elite level respect around the country. Why you may ask. Simple, we are the only program in this conference to win anything of significance in the post season. SMU hasnt won a tournament game in over 2 decades, and cincy hasnt won a title since oscar robertson. So my poimt was the conference needs us to return to our dominant form. Because without us being dominant this is indeed a mid major conference. So us beating cincy or smu this yr was completely irrelevant to my point. Which is why i have no idea why you quoted me. To pick a fight i assume, but im bored and willing to engage so no biggie

 

[gtcam]

The conference is killing our program and will continue to do so. This conference kills your seed and puts tremendous pressure to perform in early non conference. Our conference champion didn't even look physically superior to an 11 seed from the Power 5. The league is a joke and we finished in 6th! That's a warning sign.

Get out of this league or else it is over.

The 11 seeding has nothing to do with USC's talent level
They played 6 games against teams in their league ranked in the top 10 nationally. That helps hugely in the long run
When the PAC 10 had down years - all their teams (with the exception of Zona laid eggs in the NCCA tourney)
SMU had a real bad game today - that happens
You sound like chicken little

 

[gtcam]

I got news for you.

I saw all the AAC teams up close. Olejeye was the only player that wowed you up close in the entire league.

A UConn team from 10 years ago dominates this league. Something is off with this program and it's either the coaching or recruiting or this league.

I saw all the AAC teams up close and many other teams also - your assessment is not valid
A UConn team of 10 years ago played in the best league in the history of the NCAA - its ridiculous to compare today and then
The league doesn't help but there is some real good basketball players in the AAC
Why are you having spasms when SMU played a bad game?
Cinci baked a KSU team that played some damn impressive ball vs Kansas, WVU and others in their league

 

[Athlete94]

Ok i'll take the bait. First off. We've beaten Cincy and smu our fair share of times save for this year. If you want to base everything off of this yr have fun. Now that ive adressed the idiocy of "can we beat them first". For the sake od argumemt say in the 4 yrs the AAC has been a league, we went 0- for against both cincy and SMU, that still has nothing to do with my point. UConn is the only program in this conference with elite level respect around the country. Why you may ask. Simple, we are the only program in this conference to win anything of significance in the post season. SMU hasnt won a tournament game in over 2 decades, and cincy hasnt won a title since oscar robertson. So my poimt was the conference needs us to return to our dominant form. Because without us being dominant this is indeed a mid major conference. So us beating cincy or smu this yr was completely irrelevant to my point. Which is why i have no idea why you quoted me. To pick a fight i assume, but im bored and willing to engage so no biggie

Wow dude you are way over thinking this..oh and we haven't beaten SMU our fare share, hell even Cincy.. of course UCONN is seen as an elite program.. for now.. however, elite programs also win their league.. good night dear sir_

 

[wheelerdog]

Since the AAC started, it's 10-10 in the NCAA tournament

UConn responsible for 7 of the 10 wins.

And 2 belong to Louisville.

This conference is a joke.

 

[mauconnfan]

Amazing how many "this conference sucks", "conference is joke" posts there are after SMU gets nicked by a decent team in the tourney. I mean the conference isn't that good we already knew that but you people find a need to pile on after a team that isn't UConn got beat? I mean drink a few cocktails, watch some basketball and relax. This is crazy! Who cares about SMU losing, it happens - we lost to George Mason.

 

[buddy]

Ok i'll take the bait. First off. We've beaten Cincy and smu our fair share of times save for this year. If you want to base everything off of this yr have fun. Now that ive adressed the idiocy of "can we beat them first". For the sake od argumemt say in the 4 yrs the AAC has been a league, we went 0- for against both cincy and SMU, that still has nothing to do with my point. UConn is the only program in this conference with elite level respect around the country. Why you may ask. Simple, we are the only program in this conference to win anything of significance in the post season. SMU hasnt won a tournament game in over 2 decades, and cincy hasnt won a title since oscar robertson. So my poimt was the conference needs us to return to our dominant form. Because without us being dominant this is indeed a mid major conference. So us beating cincy or smu this yr was completely irrelevant to my point. Which is why i have no idea why you quoted me. To pick a fight i assume, but im bored and willing to engage so no biggie

I believe that UConn men's basketball is on the precipice of falling off of the national radar. Watching the tournament this year only emphasizes to me how poorly this last season's team has played, and how ill equipped they were physically to compete at any level. It always seemed like men against boys, and the same mistakes repeated game after game. I don't know if it was issues with coaching, inability to learn, or just indifference. I really fear that next season will be a repeat of this season. Basically same issues. No low post presence, small size guards, and lack of accuracy in shooting three point shots. I hope that I am wrong.

 

[Towney007]

Amazing how many "this conference sucks", "conference is joke" posts there are after SMU gets nicked by a decent team in the tourney. I mean the conference isn't that good we already knew that but you people find a need to pile on after a team that isn't UConn got beat? I mean drink a few cocktails, watch some basketball and relax. This is crazy! Who cares about SMU losing, it happens - we lost to George Mason.

We lost to San Diego, once - too.

 

[mauconnfan]

We lost to San Diego, once - too.

AJ though? Injury yet again, excuses-excuses. But seriously they win with AJ, tough break (tear)!

 

[mauconnfan]

I believe that UConn men's basketball is on the precipice of falling off of the national radar. Watching the tournament this year only emphasizes to me how poorly this last season's team has played, and how ill equipped they were physically to compete at any level. It always seemed like men against boys, and the same mistakes repeated game after game. I don't know if it was issues with coaching, inability to learn, or just indifference. I really fear that next season will be a repeat of this season. Basically same issues. No low post presence, small size guards, and lack of accuracy in shooting three point shots. I hope that I am wrong.

This is a new post of view.

 

[Towney007]

AJ though? Injury yet again, excuses-excuses. But seriously they win with AJ, tough break (tear)!

Maybe. But It's still San Diego. Losses in the tournament happen. Some are clearly worse than others, I'm just saying.... pig piling on teams losing to other pretty good teams or even teams not as good but on that given night up for it - is dumb.

 

[Tenspro2002]

It isn't as if USC beating SMU is some shocker. Probability models probably gave the Trojans at least a 35% chance or so of winning. Making sweeping generalizations about the strength of a team or conference based on a one point game might not be sound.

Perception is what matters.

The perception is that the AAC is a joke of a league that deserves the poor seeding it routinely gets. SMU's performance cements that perception.

 

[Walker11]

Perception is what matters.

The perception is that the AAC is a joke of a league that deserves the poor seeding it routinely gets. SMU's performance cements that perception.

I really don't buy this. No one is thinking any differently about the AAC after this one game. The seeding for the conference was generous last year. Seeding for mid majors will come down to non-conference performance, period.

Not a new thought, I know, but I really wish the Nike tournament was in January. I admit that I could be making an an enormous exaggeration with this following comment, but I truly believe our seeding next year will be dependent on if our guys make an overseas trip this summer. How nice would it be to come into a season with some semblance of a rotation figured out?

 

[Caronimo]

Who do we play out of conference next year? It's obvious that we can destroy the aac and get a crap seed (and we have never destroyed the aac)

 

[KingAG]

Wow dude you are way over thinking this..oh and we haven't beaten SMU our fare share, hell even Cincy.. of course UCONN is seen as an elite program.. for now.. however, elite programs also win their league.. good night dear sir_

Overthinking??? Nah. Just an indepth analysis of our importance to the league. Not that deep...

 

[Towney007]

I guess this is where i'm at.

Ollie is a really good recruiter insofar as he brings in a lot of talent. The upside of that is that eventually, when you're bringing in that many naturally gifted players, the rest takes care of itself. People can say what they want about the conference, but it hasn't effected our ability to attract top tier talent out of high school all that much if at all. That's just the reality. Let's - for a second - take Ollie's ability to coach and develop off the table, here - PLENTY of good teams have been able to escape bad coaching on talent, alone. I'm not saying that'll be the case with Ollie - but there's that to consider on the upside.

The downside is that sometimes recruiting isn't about the talent. In that sometimes the best players don't always equal the 'right' players. Guys that in the margins make a difference - whether its some minutes here and there, foul shots over there, three point shooting, defense or whatever. So far, I haven't seen that and that's what it is.

I think Ollie deserves at least another shot with this group. I think the talent is there - it's had a year to mature. From here on out-- almost regardless of recruting - there's enough talent in the program for this team to be outstanding. So if it isn't heading forward, then that's on Ollie. And if they're this bad next year then sure - we need to consider an alternative. But Ollie has shown me enough flashes of brilliant (he demolished Squid, Villanova and Donovan on the sidelines in one tournament - found under achieving teams late) coaching that he deserves the benefit of the doubt that he can do it.

But sure - if next year is bad again- i'm open to a look at other options.

 

[Towney007]

And to be sure - i've see enough bad from this program to be suspicious. It's a mixed bag but making a change for the sake of it? Not sure that's the path to travel.