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This Conference Needs Us

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Let's be clear: SMU was still a very good team and they were still under-seeded. Losing by one point in a game in which they led throughout is not an indictment on the league. The indictment on the league is what the league does OOC every year, which is nothing.

Cincinnati is also very good and they were seeded about where they were supposed to be. What they do in the tournament has little to do with the league being a train-wreck.
+1. This is what really helps the Big East every year. They do well OOC, and then once inside their league, everyone beats each other up, and has good RPI/SOS/Kenpom numbers.

If you look at Big East this year, they had Villanova and Butler. Everyone else was a 6-11 seed. But because of their OOC schedule, they got 7 teams in.
 

Stainmaster

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Nice to see you think so highly of UConn basketball. Putting us at the same level as Tulsa and Tulane.

Using your logic, how can we talk crap about Tulsa if they swept us this year?

We can't be both this hyper-elite program that can pick its coach from anyone in the game, and a program that's fallen so far off the deep end it needs to make a coaching change. Pick one or the other.
 
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Let's be clear: SMU was still a very good team and they were still under-seeded. Losing by one point in a game in which they led throughout is not an indictment on the league. The indictment on the league is what the league does OOC every year, which is nothing.

Cincinnati is also very good and they were seeded about where they were supposed to be. What they do in the tournament has little to do with the league being a train-wreck.

They were not under seeded. They just proved they were not under seeded.

When UConn was in the Big East did we schedule programs like SMU in high mid major leagues with high risk of losing? Would we play them at Moody? Of course not. The best teams SMU played out of conference they lost to. They feasted on a very down AAC.

And Cincinnati is not a "very good" team. I saw them up close this weekend. Very good gets thrown around a lot in college basketball these days. They are a good team. Nothing more.

SMU and Cincinnati going out in the first round against sub par Power 5 competition has nothing to do with the leagues stature? How about the fact the team that dominated the AAC didn't even look better than USC?
 

CL82

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Classic optimistic thinking of this board "we'll dominate next year."
I guess, or maybe some familiarity with next seasons roster.
 

Fishy

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We're not getting the Archie Millers who rebuff their ACC alma maters either.

If the people advocating for KO's removal think that the program has sunk low enough to warrant a coaching change, it's illogical for them to think that we'd have our pick of the litter when selecting his replacement.

You're putting us on a plane with Tulsa, South Florida and UCF, so perhaps logic isn't one of your strong suits.
 
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Using your logic, how can we talk crap about Tulsa if they swept us this year?

We can't be both this hyper-elite program that can pick its coach from anyone in the game, and a program that's fallen so far off the deep end it needs to make a coaching change. Pick one or the other.
We are one of the best college basketball programs in the country. If Kevin Ollie doesn't turn it around in the next couple of years we will bring in a great coach who will. I love Ollie but this notion that he is the be-all and end-all of UConn basketball is insane.
 

Stainmaster

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You're putting us on a plane with Tulsa, South Florida and UCF, so perhaps logic isn't one of your strong suits.

Who do you think is a realistic target to choose us over a P5 job then?
 

Fishy

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We are one of the best college basketball programs in the country. If Kevin Ollie doesn't turn it around in the next couple of years we will bring in a great coach who will. I love Ollie but this notion that he is the be-all and end-all of UConn basketball is insane.

Bingo.

You can win a national title at UConn and be paid $3.5M a year doing it.

If you don't think that will draw major interest, you don't know what you're talking about.
 

BUConn10

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Using your logic, how can we talk crap about Tulsa if they swept us this year?

We can't be both this hyper-elite program that can pick its coach from anyone in the game, and a program that's fallen so far off the deep end it needs to make a coaching change. Pick one or the other.
Look, Im with you that I think our attractiveness as a coaching destination may be weak at the moment and some of our fans calling for Ollie to go have their eyes set at targets possibly out of our range.

But whats the alternative? Just keep mssing tournaments completely or at best limping in late in the season? Teams like VCU, Wichita State, Florida Gulf freaking Coast are becoming regular fixtures in the tournament every year and most of us don't really know what we are going into season to season anymore. KO is not above UConn as a program, and if the time comes that we just aren't moving forward, we may have to make a change, no matter how weak you think we stand in the coaching free market.

Losing and slipping farther and farther down while not making any changes is like sinking in quicksand, especially when we need to be winning to attract conference eyeballs. If UConn misses the tournament 3 out of 4 years immediately following a national championship then we need evaluation. I hate everything about this predicament we are in...
 

Stainmaster

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Look, Im with you that I think our attractiveness as a coaching destination may be weak at the moment and some of our fans calling for Ollie to go have their eyes set at targets possibly out of our range.

But whats the alternative? Just keep mssing tournaments completely or at best limping in late in the season? Teams like VCU, Wichita State, Florida Gulf freaking Coast are becoming regular fixtures in the tournament every year and most of us don't really know what we are going into season to season anymore. KO is not above UConn as a program, and if the time comes that we just aren't moving forward, we may have to make a change, no matter how weak you think we stand in the coaching free market.

Losing and slipping farther and farther down while not making any changes is like sinking in quicksand, especially when we need to be winning to attract conference eyeballs. If UConn misses the tournament 3 out of 4 years immediately following a national championship then we need evaluation. I hate everything about this predicament we are in...

The key with Ollie (and what made this season's finish all the more frustrating) is the talent factor. Sniping over just how good our recruiting actually is aside, last year's class would've been good for #2 in the B1G and B12, and #3 in the ACC. You're someone who's very keen on us competing with the blue bloods, the Dukes and Kentuckys of the world - despite what our frequent arguments may suggest, I'd really like that as well. The only way to do that is to stockpile as much talent as we can given the limitations we're dealing with (i.e. conference and having a 5th year HC recruiting against HOFers like K, Cal, Pitino, etc.). Even if you disagree with me in that you don't think KO's player development and strategic capabilities will improve over time, there's something to be said such that the more talented players you have, the easier it is to mitigate certain weaknesses on the staff.

In my mind, Ollie is pretty clearly the only guy who can recruit as well as he does at an AAC level. And I am quite frightened of what happens when we don't have a 15-year NBA veteran whose unique personal background makes him especially adept at building relationships with prospects and their parents. I've seen a couple of people mention King Rice, the Monmouth guy -- how many Top 100 kids would he be able to pull here? How many McD AAs? The guy can't even make it out of the MAAC tourney. When you say "coaching free market," that's where my mind wonders, and it scares the heck out of me.
 
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I would pay my entire savings to get out of this league because I know in my gut what is happening to us by staying in it. It makes me sick quite frankly to be in this league for even one more year.
I am pretty sure UConn takes donations...
 
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One problem. If KO has a bad next year we still owe hin 17 million.
 

BUConn10

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The key with Ollie (and what made this season's finish all the more frustrating) is the talent factor. Sniping over just how good our recruiting actually is aside, last year's class would've been good for #2 in the B1G and B12, and #3 in the ACC. You're someone who's very keen on us competing with the blue bloods, the Dukes and Kentuckys of the world - despite what our frequent arguments may suggest, I'd really like that as well. The only way to do that is to stockpile as much talent as we can given the limitations we're dealing with (i.e. conference and having a 5th year HC recruiting against HOFers like K, Cal, Pitino, etc.). Even if you disagree with me in that you don't think KO's player development and strategic capabilities will improve over time, there's something to be said such that the more talented players you have, the easier it is to mitigate certain weaknesses on the staff.

In my mind, Ollie is pretty clearly the only guy who can recruit as well as he does at an AAC level. And I am quite frightened of what happens when we don't have a 15-year NBA veteran whose unique personal background makes him especially adept at building relationships with prospects and their parents. I've seen a couple of people mention King Rice, the Monmouth guy -- how many Top 100 kids would he be able to pull here? How many McD AAs? The guy can't even make it out of the MAAC tourney. When you say "coaching free market," that's where my mind wonders, and it scares the heck out of me.
I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the odd season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller spurning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.
 
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Stainmaster

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I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the off season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller burning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.

You make some good points here. I don't have the time to respond fully at the moment, but I will once I get the chance.
 
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I agree 100% with your first paragraph. Stockpiling talent is the way to ensure consistent winning without having so many peaks and valleys over each 5 year span.

But the second paragraph is where you lose me. I agree Ollie is a great recruiter on paper using the rankings, but there really may be something to getting the "right" guys. Out of all of KO's recruits, really Hamilton and Jalen have really shown us greatness, the type of talent you need in at least multiple spots on the floor to be a contender in my opinion these days. I emphasize "shown" in the last paragraph because we have yet to see what guys like Larrier and Gilbert can bring, yet I still feel they are a tier below what the contenders will be bringing into the season next year mainly because of how unpredictable our early games have been each year and the fact that these two guys still haven't really played much basketball yet, let alone with this roster.

I think you may be overstating how uncompetitive we'd be in the coaching market. I definitely see us as above having to poach a coach from Monmouth to be the next coach at UConn, I think that's crazy talk and insulting to the program. Despite the terrible conference situation one thing I think is understated is that we still have top notch facilities that most of the programs at this non-P5 tier can't even come close to competing with, and when you walk in and see huge murals of Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton I still think even in this day in 2017 that it means a whole lot to recruits.

Finally, I think one thing we are seeing with Syracuse and Pitt's woes since moving to the ACC is that "status quo" is a real thing and everyone has their place in their conference. What I mean is the Big 12 is all Kansas, other teams will compete some years but they dominate that league consistently. The ACC is all Duke and UNC. There isn't room for Cuse, Pitt and Louisville at the top for more than the odd season, they just won't allow it. We are in the unique position that the AAC is ours. A rising star coach can come in right away and be the big dog on his somewhat sizeable block without having to be in another blue bloods shadow.

Lastly, I wouldn't let things like Archie Miller spurning his alma mater at a P5 as bad news for us as a program. Quite the contrary, I actually think he strengthens my argument above. He has a really hot stock right now as a coach, why blow all that good value on the third wheel team in Tobacco Road. That job is literally impossible to please the fans and media at, it's a lose-lose for him, like I said before there just isn't more room at the top in that particular league, it's too saturated. I think we could easily lure away most any mid major coach except maybe a particular bunch, and dare I say even from most BE/P5 programs without a basketball legacy or football first culture. I 100% believe conference affiliation influences a coaches success in a lot of ways, but I also think despite being non-P5 UConn has done a good job showing it plays differently, at least I hope.
Stainmaster clearly doesn't think highly of the UConn program.
 

DAC17

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The conference is killing our program and will continue to do so. This conference kills your seed and puts tremendous pressure to perform in early non conference. Our conference champion didn't even look physically superior to an 11 seed from the Power 5. The league is a joke and we finished in 6th! That's a warning sign.

Get out of this league or else it is over.

And, of course, the $64,000 question is...How do we do this???
 
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Since the AAC started, it's 10-10 in the NCAA tournament

UConn responsible for 7 of the 10 wins.
There were a lot of years this happened in the old Big East also. Remember the years when Cuse, Pitt, Georgetown and Villanova were coughing it up in the tourney?
 
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They were not under seeded. They just proved they were not under seeded.

When UConn was in the Big East did we schedule programs like SMU in high mid major leagues with high risk of losing? Would we play them at Moody? Of course not. The best teams SMU played out of conference they lost to. They feasted on a very down AAC.

And Cincinnati is not a "very good" team. I saw them up close this weekend. Very good gets thrown around a lot in college basketball these days. They are a good team. Nothing more.

SMU and Cincinnati going out in the first round against sub par Power 5 competition has nothing to do with the leagues stature? How about the fact the team that dominated the AAC didn't even look better than USC?

The difference between good and very good is hardly relevant to my point. Both are top 25 type teams that would probably finish 10-8 or so in a league like the Big 12. Nothing wrong with that.

It's tough to advance teams in the tournament. The 2011 Big East may have been the greatest conference ever, and they got exactly two teams - the ninth and eleventh place teams - to the second weekend.

It isn't as if USC beating SMU is some shocker. Probability models probably gave the Trojans at least a 35% chance or so of winning. Making sweeping generalizations about the strength of a team or conference based on a one point game might not be sound. That being said, anybody who thought SMU and Cincinnati were juggernauts that we shouldn't have beaten at least once in five tries is off base. The coaching staff did not do their jobs this season.
 

Athlete94

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Because SMU and Cincy just arent capable of carrying the torch at all. They are good regualr season programs but they arent prime time. We must reclaim our rightful place. Enough!
How about we first start off by at least beating them..
 
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The difference between good and very good is hardly relevant to my point. Both are top 25 type teams that would probably finish 10-8 or so in a league like the Big 12. Nothing wrong with that.

It's tough to advance teams in the tournament. The 2011 Big East may have been the greatest conference ever, and they got exactly two teams - the ninth and eleventh place teams - to the second weekend.

It isn't as if USC beating SMU is some shocker. Probability models probably gave the Trojans at least a 35% chance or so of winning. Making sweeping generalizations about the strength of a team or conference based on a one point game might not be sound. That being said, anybody who thought SMU and Cincinnati were juggernauts that we shouldn't have beaten at least once in five tries is off base. The coaching staff did not do their jobs this season.

This shouldn't be hard to realize but somehow it is. March Madness is the most fun way to determine a champion, but it's certainly not the ideal way to determine the best team. There's a reason the big boy league plays 7 game series' (couldn't help myself).
 
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There is no point ...
Ok i'll take the bait. First off. We've beaten Cincy and smu our fair share of times save for this year. If you want to base everything off of this yr have fun. Now that ive adressed the idiocy of "can we beat them first". For the sake od argumemt say in the 4 yrs the AAC has been a league, we went 0- for against both cincy and SMU, that still has nothing to do with my point. UConn is the only program in this conference with elite level respect around the country. Why you may ask. Simple, we are the only program in this conference to win anything of significance in the post season. SMU hasnt won a tournament game in over 2 decades, and cincy hasnt won a title since oscar robertson. So my poimt was the conference needs us to return to our dominant form. Because without us being dominant this is indeed a mid major conference. So us beating cincy or smu this yr was completely irrelevant to my point. Which is why i have no idea why you quoted me. To pick a fight i assume, but im bored and willing to engage so no biggie
 

gtcam

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The conference is killing our program and will continue to do so. This conference kills your seed and puts tremendous pressure to perform in early non conference. Our conference champion didn't even look physically superior to an 11 seed from the Power 5. The league is a joke and we finished in 6th! That's a warning sign.

Get out of this league or else it is over.

The 11 seeding has nothing to do with USC's talent level
They played 6 games against teams in their league ranked in the top 10 nationally. That helps hugely in the long run
When the PAC 10 had down years - all their teams (with the exception of Zona laid eggs in the NCCA tourney)
SMU had a real bad game today - that happens
You sound like chicken little
 

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