There is still plenty of reason for optimism | Page 2 | The Boneyard

There is still plenty of reason for optimism

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The Boneyard isn't melting down over a back end top 100 recruit, it's melting down because we can't get any recruits right now. The culture of the program is toxic right now, and Ollie's running out of time to change that before the 2018 recruiting class is complete.

This is correct. How folks don't understand this is beyond me.

It's not about a single recruit or two recruits. It's the combination of a multitude of factors that give anyone who is capable of objectively looking of the program the sense that the program is a mess.

There's one guy who's been entrusted with stewarding the program and maintain the success that the university is accustomed to enjoying and right now he is not getting it done (I'll not bother to critique Ollie here).

That title is so far in the rear view mirror to current guys it comical. I'm around high school athletes everyday - it is what have you done for me lately not x years ago with what everyone will say is a HOF coaches players that he had the fortune of coaching - regardless of if you believe that is an accurate narrative or not.
 
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It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.

Think it's more of the info we are given from the so called sources on this board. They have been 100000% wrong on every recruit this year, and yet people are sent into an absolute frenzy when one of them says "hearing lots of UConn."

For days after that it's celebrating, crystal balls etc.

Then they don't end up coming here and this place crashes and burns because many posters thought it was a lock because of the false narratives we are given.

BTW this has happened with every recruit this season.
 
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Think it's more of the info we are given from the so called sources on this board. They have been 100000% wrong on every recruit this year, and yet people are sent into an absolute frenzy when one of them says "hearing lots of UConn."

For days after that it's celebrating, crystal balls etc.

Then they don't end up coming here and this place crashes and burns because many posters thought it was a lock because of the false narratives we are given.

BTW this has happened with every recruit this season.

They weren't wrong though so give this up. 99 had it correct the kid was flip flopping and until the formal Friday announcement was stopped he was going to be a Husky. What don't you get form that? The fact we had some fun with the inside info even though it didn't turn out our way is great to me. The fact you don't like it means you should "Ignore" every one of them so your feelings aren't hurt again. Pretty simple, get it done.
 
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I don't think there is "plenty" to be optimistic about, but I do hold that if we can get back to winning, the recruiting will turn around especially as the two new recruiters develop relationships locally to get the Northeast talent coming in again. We clearly are no longer at a level where we should be recruiting nationally. Once we are winning our conference (which we still have yet to accomplish), we can go back to that.

The problem there is do we even finish top 5 in conference with the current roster? I get that we are in the AAC and play other AAC rosters but we have struggled with more in the past.
 

gtcam

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It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.
I would tend to agree but lately all it takes is a hangnail and its doom and gloom
I am not shocked, pissed off or surprised the kid chose the University of New Jersey
His ties to that school are/were/will be stronger than to UConn
 
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Not odd at all. We lost said recruit to Rutgers. Rutgers.
Posters spoke well of Pikiell at Stony Brook, and predicted he'd move things forward at Rutgers. Some have suggested him as a good choice to succeed Ollie. Now, he wins a recruiting battle head-to-head and it's time for repeated words, in italics no less.

"First, you don't want the pony. Now, you want me to bring him back. Make up your mind, Marge"
 
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It's funny because if Mathis had committed to UConn, I could have written virtually the same post with the title "There is still plenty of reason for negativity."

I'm genuinely curious to know how many of the people that are disagreeing with me actually read beyond the title, because none of the responses seem to address any of the points I made specifically.

This was far from a fluff post. It attempts to encapsulate the current situation in a way that is neutral at best. It's just that, when everything is monotonously negative, any attempt to appeal to due process is characterized as naive.

I agree with people like @CardiacAndre7 . To lose another recruitment in this fashion is agonizing and could come at the expense of the long-term health of the program.

But for every weakness of Ollie's that has been exposed in recent years is a reciprocal trait of endearment. He's a basketball coach and not a politician or a businessman. He's also a leader, a father, and a champion. If it turns out somebody out-hustled him, so be it. Ollie's purported ambivalence is a blessing as much as it is a curse because the marriage is less diluted by circumstantial variables - like the opinions of AAU coaches and sneaker companies - that tend to organically stratify recruits by personality.

None of this is to say there haven't been plenty of of maniacally competitive guys shopped away. The greater the talent, the greater the cartel, and typically, when a player lands in the top 10 or top 50 or top 100 it isn't because they aren't driven.

Ollie, though, is built in such a way that the synthesis of the good can preclude the bad. Get a kid in the room, and he'll be ready to commit before Ollie stops talking. It might not be love at first sight, but it's something close. It's the reason we have struggled to corral top ranked kids with drawn out recruitments. There is an immediacy in falling for Ollie's pedagogy that can't quite be qualified and as a result his rosters will frequently be homogeneous in a manner that might be less conducive to infighting, turnover, and complacency.
 
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I saw the title and opened it to cheer me up. You didn't predict an undefeated season and a 2018 National Championship for the Huskies like you always do. I'm back to being depressed.
 

Fishy

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But for every weakness of Ollie's that has been exposed in recent years is a reciprocal trait of endearment. He's a basketball coach and not a politician or a businessman. He's also a leader, a father, and a champion. If it turns out somebody out-hustled him, so be it. Ollie's purported ambivalence is a blessing as much as it is a curse because the marriage is less diluted by circumstantial variables - like the opinions of AAU coaches and sneaker companies - that tend to organically stratify recruits by personality.

confused-monkey.jpg
 

temery

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You made great points and obviously thought about this alot, but long story short, there is no excuse for being apparently out worked, especially after our last few seasons. Our assistants and KO may be planting seeds, but we have yet to see results. We just need to close.

From what I've read, there isn't much more Ollie could have done to convince this kid to come to UConn. He wanted UConn, but mom wanted him at Rutgers from the beginning. I'm sure convincing parents is part of the job, but she wanted Rutgers. End of story.

There are no positives when a kid commits elsewhere, but the negatives people are whining about are off base. Some of y'all are just looking for things to complain about.

I can't wait for the season to start.
 
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Seems people are forgetting that Jalen, Alterique and Terry Larrier were transcendent talents out of high school. Add a gritty kid like Vital, and you're starting ahead of the game as a coach.

All 3 were ranked high, but you could also make an argument that they were among the best handful of players in the entire nation. I know there was not a guard I wanted more than Jalen that year. Larrier also stood out.

When these 3 move on, you need to replace them with similar studs to have any hope of bringing UConn back. Some kids like Jeremy Lamb are overlooked and ranked 70. But that's rare.

So, Ollie has to nail it in recruiting at some point in the next several months. He needs 3 strong kids. 2 of them need to be immediate difference makers who can score it.
 
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We have played in two NCAA tournament games over the past three seasons and are almost never ranked in the Top 25. Anyone who is surprised that recruiting isn't going well hasn't been paying attention. The stink on the program is real, despite the efforts of a handful of Boneyard posters who seem to think the program is in good hands. I sense that even they are having a hard time defending KO these days. If UConn has a real good season despite all the question marks in the frontcourt, Ollie will have done an excellent job. Unfortunately, I believe that is a longshot.
 
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We have played in two NCAA tournament games over the past three seasons and are almost never ranked in the Top 25. Anyone who is surprised that recruiting isn't going well hasn't been paying attention. The stink on the program is real, despite the efforts of a handful of Boneyard posters who seem to think the program is in good hands. I sense that even they are having a hard time defending KO these days. If UConn has a real good season despite all the question marks in the frontcourt, Ollie will have done an excellent job. Unfortunately, I believe that is a longshot.

Rutgers is even worse.
 
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Rutgers is even worse.

Are you really going to measure the strength of the program against a school like Rutgers? If so, your standards are incredibly low.
 
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Are you really going to measure the strength of the program against a school like Rutgers? If so, your standards are incredibly low.

I was stating the exact opposite of what you imagine you read. Holy cow!!!!

Are you related to superjohn?
 
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From what I've read, there isn't much more Ollie could have done to convince this kid to come to UConn. He wanted UConn, but mom wanted him at Rutgers from the beginning. I'm sure convincing parents is part of the job, but she wanted Rutgers. End of story.

There are no positives when a kid commits elsewhere, but the negatives people are whining about are off base. Some of y'all are just looking for things to complain about.

I can't wait for the season to start.
Yeah parents do sometimes have the final word, but not only this time, there have been rumors that Ollie has been getting outworked on the recruiting trail for a couple guys. My only thing here is due to our last few adequate-to-mediocre seasons, he needs to be busting his tail out there.
 
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But for every weakness of Ollie's that has been exposed in recent years is a reciprocal trait of endearment. He's a basketball coach and not a politician or a businessman. He's also a leader, a father, and a champion. If it turns out somebody out-hustled him, so be it. Ollie's purported ambivalence is a blessing as much as it is a curse because the marriage is less diluted by circumstantial variables - like the opinions of AAU coaches and sneaker companies - that tend to organically stratify recruits by personality.

confused-monkey.jpg

As I burst out laughing my wife goes what's so funny and I read the text and show her the photo and she began to laugh.

Bravo man bravo.
 

UConnDan97

predicting undefeated seasons since 1983
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From what I've read, there isn't much more Ollie could have done to convince this kid to come to UConn. He wanted UConn, but mom wanted him at Rutgers from the beginning. I'm sure convincing parents is part of the job, but she wanted Rutgers. End of story.

There are no positives when a kid commits elsewhere, but the negatives people are whining about are off base. Some of y'all are just looking for things to complain about.

I can't wait for the season to start.

Spot on, my friend.

I can't wait until the season starts either, because I think we're going to have a great season. The basketball board has lost its mind, though. I'll just continue to lurk until the games start so that I can retain my sanity...
 

whaler11

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@champs99and04 care to answer the original question?

I think he is making a reference to Steve Kerr complimenting Ollie for how he used his bench in the 2014 Final Four that Kerr called for CBS/TNT.

I don't know if I'd give credit to Kerr for changing the game - the 3 point revolution started when he was still working on TNT broadcasts.
 
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I get it it's not good times. Losing a recruit to Rutgers is bad....Hopefully we can find someone as good as him. Theirs guys out there under the radar as good as him just gotta find them. Javon Freeman from Whitney Young no high major offers to me is very comparable to Mathis. Hopefully we can land someone in the next two months here.

Might have to get creative take another Juco or a transfer.

All that said to me the biggest issue is the conference. It's going to be a huge hurdle with every recruit. Gives schools like Rutgers something to sell on us.
 
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dennismenace

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This isn't a ten toes in post. The loss of Montez Mathis to Rutgers should not be minimized as an anecdotal scrawl or assuaged by a chorus of tales about the time we missed Brandon Knight and had to take Shabazz. The ship is taking on water and I do not begrudge anybody who lusts for a scapegoat. This is obviously important to all of us.

The truth is still paramount, though, and even if our scope stops well short of the threshold to obtain such a thing, I still appreciate the value of re-convening, at times like this, of what we do know. One thing I believe but do not know is that Ollie is much further away from the transition to hospice care than it may appear on days like this. Running a college basketball program is about as comprehensive an assignment as any occupation north of D.C. There is a reason many people - not myself, but a considerable portion of this board - campaigned against the idea that a guy with two years of coaching experience could waltz into one of the most powerful jobs in college basketball. Some might feel validated in that belief as questions about his ability to run a program circulate.

And since we're here, let's put a few of them on the table.

Can he install schemes on both ends of the court that consistently maximize the ability of his players?

Can he distinguish - when he is on the trail - between kids with a higher propensity for growing and learning than others? Is he able to recognize which specific skills are most likely to translate to the next level?

If he can, is he able to develop those players into winners, even on a timeline that may be accelerated by a players' desire to reach the next level?

Does he know how to motivate his players without alienating them?

If he can, then can he identify the warning signs during a recruitment that are a predictive of that player being problematic while he's here?


The last one is important to me, because in an era where recruiting is very much synonymous with groveling at the feet of 15, 16, and 17 year old kids, recently retired NBA players - and particularly one that fell in love with Jim Calhoun - might be especially at risk for struggling to adapt to a climate that is incongruent with their core philosophies. Between appeasing family members, pretending to care about AAU coaches, and catering to boosters and sneaker companies, there is a lot more to the craft then we often allow for. In simple terms, does he know how to play the game?

None of this necessarily pertains to the Mathis recruitment, but the anatomy of recruiting - and how coaches learn to leverage their strengths and weaknesses over time - is a lot more involved than people think. The pained exports and failed imports of now have a funny way of organically refining the casting of tomorrow's net. As a young coach, Ollie deserves some leeway on that front.

Baring that in mind, it's important to pay attention to the way we describe people. Bob Huggins is an ornery old guy who won't put up with entitled five star kids so he kicks your ass with hungry, under-the-radar players instead. Frank Martin will kick your teeth in if you forget to call him sir and then entice recruits with aggrandizing phone calls about how he needs a New York City point guard. Cal and K practically let the players recruit them. Kevin Ollie? He just gets outworked, apparently, and is incompetent.

I know that the source (s) propagating these rumors are good ones because the insiders on this board have proven that much. I also know that the source isn't Kevin Ollie.

I know that the information is real. I don't know that the conclusion is the correct one.

I thought Kevin Ollie did a bad job coaching our basketball team last season and I don't think he was particularly sterling in 2015 or 2016 either. Last season, the injuries and the offensive woes threw people off the scent of the real red flag: defense. He stuck to his guns on his defensive schemes even in the face of a fairly convincing sample of data to indicate otherwise and an associate coach who grew tired of his forcing a square peg into a round hole. To a lesser degree, he stuck to his guns on offense and shoehorned players like Brimah into roles they were not qualified for.

Great coaches - especially at the college level - are supposed to be stubborn, though. They're supposed to be arrogant. They're supposed to believe that the way they teach the game is the only way it should be played, and if that sometimes means marching a line of checkers players onto a chess board, then so be it.

They might have won more games last season with a different head coach. In fact, the man who took the fall, Glen Miller, might have been one of them. Instead, he found himself looking for work as soon as March, all because - and I don't buy that this was entirely due to recruiting - the head coach refused to swallow his pride and concede defeat on the schemes that facilitated arguably the worst three year stretch in recent UConn history.

All of that can be a good as much as it can be bad. It can be good that Mamadou Diarra signals a diametric contrast to Amida Brimah, who - much as I defended him while he was here - is more equipped to handle the sort of blitzing schemes that won us a title just three years ago. It can also be a good thing that angry players are now playing for an angry coach. There's less fluff than there was last year, when the shine from a top ten recruiting class was at its brightest on first night, or when guys showed up to camp out of shape, or when Wagner turned a pep rally into a fight.

Sure, some of that is whimsical rationalization, but some of it might not be. Now, we're left with the star point guard who played the last five games of the season on a busted wheel, a freshman point guard who led a public school to the prep championship, an NBA prospect whose first reaction upon tearing his ACL was to inspire his teammates, and a 23-year-old who crawled through every sewer in the universe for his opportunity to play D-1 ball.

If we continue to lose on the recruiting trail, we are screwed. There are no two ways about it. My hope is that the consistency in the way we are losing these battles foreshadows an epiphany down the road.

There is a lot of writing on the wall that suggests Kevin Ollie is on borrowed time. I am not here to dispute that. I am here to point to all of the writing that suggests he will be here for many years to come. And there is a lot of it.

Just remember, the greatest basketball team ever assembled took a page from Kevin Ollie's book. Steve Kerr was there, in Dallas, watching him re-invent the game.

I am a bit confused; it seems that your essay indicates that KO has really not performed well in many aspects of a very demanding job that has changed greatly due to culture etc in the last 8-10 years. I thought you did a pretty good job of laying that out in great detail and then you seem to support his being here for many years to come. Is that an indictment of the University or is it the epiphany (epiphanies) you are hoping for will somehow bring about a 180 degree turn? If it is the latter, what gives you the reason for such hope?
 
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I think he is making a reference to Steve Kerr complimenting Ollie for how he used his bench in the 2014 Final Four that Kerr called for CBS/TNT.

I don't know if I'd give credit to Kerr for changing the game - the 3 point revolution started when he was still working on TNT broadcasts.

You are correct, but I wasn't referring to the 3 point revolution, I was referring to Draymond Green playing center.

Steve Kerr's a bright guy and I'm sure Kevin Ollie wasn't on his mind when he made that decision, but to my knowledge UConn did things in 2014 that took downsizing to an extreme and then Kerr applied that to the NBA game when he took over in 2015.
 
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I am a bit confused; it seems that your essay indicates that KO has really not performed well in many aspects of a very demanding job that has changed greatly due to culture etc in the last 8-10 years. I thought you did a pretty good job of laying that out in great detail and then you seem to support his being here for many years to come. Is that an indictment of the University or is it the epiphany (epiphanies) you are hoping for will somehow bring about a 180 degree turn? If it is the latter, what gives you the reason for such hope?

It's hard to explain, honestly, but the best way I can put it is that a person's strength is often also their biggest weakness.

I don't think Kevin Ollie has done a good job coaching over the last three years. The reason I am hopeful that will change is that he now has new players. The guys that comprised the core of those teams - Purvis, Calhoun, Hamilton, Facey, and Brimah - did not have skill sets that jived with Ollie's core philosophies. I believe he should have tweaked his system to fit the personnel better, but he didn't.

The flip side to that is when you're stubborn, the basketball universe has a funny way of naturally selecting players that either love the coach or don't. To that end, recruiting is about more than just signing players; it's about making connections and sharing a vision. That tends to be something easier to recognize in the earliest and simplest stages of a recruitment, when the outside noise is lesser and the autonomy of the player is greater. Everything that contributes to a recruitment that isn't about the player/coach relationship is something that threatens the conviction of your vision. That's why Jackson, Durham, and Enoch are no longer here. They didn't believe in the coach or the system.

Purvis, Brimah, and Facey were loyal and cooperative members of Ollie's plan who also happened to be good basketball players. But they weren't the right players. They weren't the right players to execute Ollie's vision and I think - either by chance or by a shift in strategy - that the players on the current team are.

They're not going to be some dominant team, but I think they'll make the tournament, and after that, who knows? Maybe Adams and Larrier come back and they contend for the crown in 2018-19. Maybe he parlays his newfound job security into another Adams or another Larrier.

I just think it's early to write the script on Kevin Ollie at UConn. Maybe the problem isn't that he doesn't know how to coach. Maybe the problem is that he only knows how to coach one way and maybe he's finally realized it and so have the players. And maybe that's not as much of a problem as we think.
 
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It's hard to explain, honestly, but the best way I can put it is that a person's strength is often also their biggest weakness.

I don't think Kevin Ollie has done a good job coaching over the last three years. The reason I am hopeful that will change is that he now has new players. The guys that comprised the core of those teams - Purvis, Calhoun, Hamilton, Facey, and Brimah - did not have skill sets that jived with Ollie's core philosophies. I believe he should have tweaked his system to fit the personnel better, but he didn't.

The flip side to that is when you're stubborn, the basketball universe has a funny way of naturally selecting players that either love the coach or don't. To that end, recruiting is about more than just signing players; it's about making connections and sharing a vision. That tends to be something easier to recognize in the earliest and simplest stages of a recruitment, when the outside noise is lesser and the autonomy of the player is greater. Everything that contributes to a recruitment that isn't about the player/coach relationship is something that threatens the conviction of your vision. That's why Jackson, Durham, and Enoch are no longer here. They didn't believe in the coach or the system.

Purvis, Brimah, and Facey were loyal and cooperative members of Ollie's plan who also happened to be good basketball players. But they weren't the right players. They weren't the right players to execute Ollie's vision and I think - either by chance or by a shift in strategy - that the players on the current team are.

They're not going to be some dominant team, but I think they'll make the tournament, and after that, who knows? Maybe Adams and Larrier come back and they contend for the crown in 2018-19. Maybe he parlays his newfound job security into another Adams or another Larrier.

I just think it's early to write the script on Kevin Ollie at UConn. Maybe the problem isn't that he doesn't know how to coach. Maybe the problem is that he only knows how to coach one way and maybe he's finally realized it and so have the players. And maybe that's not as much of a problem as we think.
This was terrific
 

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