There is still plenty of reason for optimism | The Boneyard

There is still plenty of reason for optimism

Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
9,343
Reaction Score
23,546
This isn't a ten toes in post. The loss of Montez Mathis to Rutgers should not be minimized as an anecdotal scrawl or assuaged by a chorus of tales about the time we missed Brandon Knight and had to take Shabazz. The ship is taking on water and I do not begrudge anybody who lusts for a scapegoat. This is obviously important to all of us.

The truth is still paramount, though, and even if our scope stops well short of the threshold to obtain such a thing, I still appreciate the value of re-convening, at times like this, of what we do know. One thing I believe but do not know is that Ollie is much further away from the transition to hospice care than it may appear on days like this. Running a college basketball program is about as comprehensive an assignment as any occupation north of D.C. There is a reason many people - not myself, but a considerable portion of this board - campaigned against the idea that a guy with two years of coaching experience could waltz into one of the most powerful jobs in college basketball. Some might feel validated in that belief as questions about his ability to run a program circulate.

And since we're here, let's put a few of them on the table.

Can he install schemes on both ends of the court that consistently maximize the ability of his players?

Can he distinguish - when he is on the trail - between kids with a higher propensity for growing and learning than others? Is he able to recognize which specific skills are most likely to translate to the next level?

If he can, is he able to develop those players into winners, even on a timeline that may be accelerated by a players' desire to reach the next level?

Does he know how to motivate his players without alienating them?

If he can, then can he identify the warning signs during a recruitment that are a predictive of that player being problematic while he's here?


The last one is important to me, because in an era where recruiting is very much synonymous with groveling at the feet of 15, 16, and 17 year old kids, recently retired NBA players - and particularly one that fell in love with Jim Calhoun - might be especially at risk for struggling to adapt to a climate that is incongruent with their core philosophies. Between appeasing family members, pretending to care about AAU coaches, and catering to boosters and sneaker companies, there is a lot more to the craft then we often allow for. In simple terms, does he know how to play the game?

None of this necessarily pertains to the Mathis recruitment, but the anatomy of recruiting - and how coaches learn to leverage their strengths and weaknesses over time - is a lot more involved than people think. The pained exports and failed imports of now have a funny way of organically refining the casting of tomorrow's net. As a young coach, Ollie deserves some leeway on that front.

Baring that in mind, it's important to pay attention to the way we describe people. Bob Huggins is an ornery old guy who won't put up with entitled five star kids so he kicks your ass with hungry, under-the-radar players instead. Frank Martin will kick your teeth in if you forget to call him sir and then entice recruits with aggrandizing phone calls about how he needs a New York City point guard. Cal and K practically let the players recruit them. Kevin Ollie? He just gets outworked, apparently, and is incompetent.

I know that the source (s) propagating these rumors are good ones because the insiders on this board have proven that much. I also know that the source isn't Kevin Ollie.

I know that the information is real. I don't know that the conclusion is the correct one.

I thought Kevin Ollie did a bad job coaching our basketball team last season and I don't think he was particularly sterling in 2015 or 2016 either. Last season, the injuries and the offensive woes threw people off the scent of the real red flag: defense. He stuck to his guns on his defensive schemes even in the face of a fairly convincing sample of data to indicate otherwise and an associate coach who grew tired of his forcing a square peg into a round hole. To a lesser degree, he stuck to his guns on offense and shoehorned players like Brimah into roles they were not qualified for.

Great coaches - especially at the college level - are supposed to be stubborn, though. They're supposed to be arrogant. They're supposed to believe that the way they teach the game is the only way it should be played, and if that sometimes means marching a line of checkers players onto a chess board, then so be it.

They might have won more games last season with a different head coach. In fact, the man who took the fall, Glen Miller, might have been one of them. Instead, he found himself looking for work as soon as March, all because - and I don't buy that this was entirely due to recruiting - the head coach refused to swallow his pride and concede defeat on the schemes that facilitated arguably the worst three year stretch in recent UConn history.

All of that can be a good as much as it can be bad. It can be good that Mamadou Diarra signals a diametric contrast to Amida Brimah, who - much as I defended him while he was here - is more equipped to handle the sort of blitzing schemes that won us a title just three years ago. It can also be a good thing that angry players are now playing for an angry coach. There's less fluff than there was last year, when the shine from a top ten recruiting class was at its brightest on first night, or when guys showed up to camp out of shape, or when Wagner turned a pep rally into a fight.

Sure, some of that is whimsical rationalization, but some of it might not be. Now, we're left with the star point guard who played the last five games of the season on a busted wheel, a freshman point guard who led a public school to the prep championship, an NBA prospect whose first reaction upon tearing his ACL was to inspire his teammates, and a 23-year-old who crawled through every sewer in the universe for his opportunity to play D-1 ball.

If we continue to lose on the recruiting trail, we are screwed. There are no two ways about it. My hope is that the consistency in the way we are losing these battles foreshadows an epiphany down the road.

There is a lot of writing on the wall that suggests Kevin Ollie is on borrowed time. I am not here to dispute that. I am here to point to all of the writing that suggests he will be here for many years to come. And there is a lot of it.

Just remember, the greatest basketball team ever assembled took a page from Kevin Ollie's book. Steve Kerr was there, in Dallas, watching him re-invent the game.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
8,204
Reaction Score
26,572
This isn't a ten toes in post. The loss of Montez Mathis to Rutgers should not be minimized as an anecdotal scrawl or assuaged by a chorus of tales about the time we missed Brandon Knight and had to take Shabazz. The ship is taking on water and I do not begrudge anybody who lusts for a scapegoat. This is obviously important to all of us.

The truth is still paramount, though, and even if our scope stops well short of the threshold to obtain such a thing, I still appreciate the value of re-convening, at times like this, of what we do know. One thing I believe but do not know is that Ollie is much further away from the transition to hospice care than it may appear on days like this. Running a college basketball program is about as comprehensive an assignment as any occupation north of D.C. There is a reason many people - not myself, but a considerable portion of this board - campaigned against the idea that a guy with two years of coaching experience could waltz into one of the most powerful jobs in college basketball. Some might feel validated in that belief as questions about his ability to run a program circulate.

And since we're here, let's put a few of them on the table.

Can he install schemes on both ends of the court that consistently maximize the ability of his players?

Can he distinguish - when he is on the trail - between kids with a higher propensity for growing and learning than others? Is he able to recognize which specific skills are most likely to translate to the next level?

If he can, is he able to develop those players into winners, even on a timeline that may be accelerated by a players' desire to reach the next level?

Does he know how to motivate his players without alienating them?

If he can, then can he identify the warning signs during a recruitment that are a predictive of that player being problematic while he's here?


The last one is important to me, because in an era where recruiting is very much synonymous with groveling at the feet of 15, 16, and 17 year old kids, recently retired NBA players - and particularly one that fell in love with Jim Calhoun - might be especially at risk for struggling to adapt to a climate that is incongruent with their core philosophies. Between appeasing family members, pretending to care about AAU coaches, and catering to boosters and sneaker companies, there is a lot more to the craft then we often allow for. In simple terms, does he know how to play the game?

None of this necessarily pertains to the Mathis recruitment, but the anatomy of recruiting - and how coaches learn to leverage their strengths and weaknesses over time - is a lot more involved than people think. The pained exports and failed imports of now have a funny way of organically refining the casting of tomorrow's net. As a young coach, Ollie deserves some leeway on that front.

Baring that in mind, it's important to pay attention to the way we describe people. Bob Huggins is an ornery old guy who won't put up with entitled five star kids so he kicks your ass with hungry, under-the-radar players instead. Frank Martin will kick your teeth in if you forget to call him sir and then entice recruits with aggrandizing phone calls about how he needs a New York City point guard. Cal and K practically let the players recruit them. Kevin Ollie? He just gets outworked, apparently, and is incompetent.

I know that the source (s) propagating these rumors are good ones because the insiders on this board have proven that much. I also know that the source isn't Kevin Ollie.

I know that the information is real. I don't know that the conclusion is the correct one.

I thought Kevin Ollie did a bad job coaching our basketball team last season and I don't think he was particularly sterling in 2015 or 2016 either. Last season, the injuries and the offensive woes threw people off the scent of the real red flag: defense. He stuck to his guns on his defensive schemes even in the face of a fairly convincing sample of data to indicate otherwise and an associate coach who grew tired of his forcing a square peg into a round hole. To a lesser degree, he stuck to his guns on offense and shoehorned players like Brimah into roles they were not qualified for.

Great coaches - especially at the college level - are supposed to be stubborn, though. They're supposed to be arrogant. They're supposed to believe that the way they teach the game is the only way it should be played, and if that sometimes means marching a line of checkers players onto a chess board, then so be it.

They might have won more games last season with a different head coach. In fact, the man who took the fall, Glen Miller, might have been one of them. Instead, he found himself looking for work as soon as March, all because - and I don't buy that this was entirely due to recruiting - the head coach refused to swallow his pride and concede defeat on the schemes that facilitated arguably the worst three year stretch in recent UConn history.

All of that can be a good as much as it can be bad. It can be good that Mamadou Diarra signals a diametric contrast to Amida Brimah, who - much as I defended him while he was here - is more equipped to handle the sort of blitzing schemes that won us a title just three years ago. It can also be a good thing that angry players are now playing for an angry coach. There's less fluff than there was last year, when the shine from a top ten recruiting class was at its brightest on first night, or when guys showed up to camp out of shape, or when Wagner turned a pep rally into a fight.

Sure, some of that is whimsical rationalization, but some of it might not be. Now, we're left with the star point guard who played the last five games of the season on a busted wheel, a freshman point guard who led a public school to the prep championship, an NBA prospect whose first reaction upon tearing his ACL was to inspire his teammates, and a 23-year-old who crawled through every sewer in the universe for his opportunity to play D-1 ball.

If we continue to lose on the recruiting trail, we are screwed. There are no two ways about it. My hope is that the consistency in the way we are losing these battles foreshadows an epiphany down the road.

There is a lot of writing on the wall that suggests Kevin Ollie is on borrowed time. I am not here to dispute that. I am here to point to all of the writing that suggests he will be here for many years to come. And there is a lot of it.

Just remember, the greatest basketball team ever assembled took a page from Kevin Ollie's book. Steve Kerr was there, in Dallas, watching him re-invent the game.
You made great points and obviously thought about this alot, but long story short, there is no excuse for being apparently out worked, especially after our last few seasons. Our assistants and KO may be planting seeds, but we have yet to see results. We just need to close.
 

Rico444

In the mix for six
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,655
Reaction Score
29,686
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.

The Boneyard isn't melting down over a back end top 100 recruit, it's melting down because we can't get any recruits right now. The culture of the program is toxic right now, and Ollie's running out of time to change that before the 2018 recruiting class is complete.
 
C

Chief00

You know Chief00 always keeps it real. KO previously had to demonstrate he did not belong to effect change. Now KO needs to demonstrate he belongs or else there will be change. May sound like semantics but it requires a whole different outlook for KO to be successful.
 
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
2,392
Reaction Score
8,800
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.
Not odd, normal for the last 15 months or so. You're right, we do need good news. If Kwintin Williams had gone somewhere else after UConn being mentioned as having interest, despite nobody knowing who he was two months ago, there would be a 15 page thread here right now arguing about it.
 

pj

Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
8,607
Reaction Score
24,971
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.

It's true that there are probably a dozen players in the 120-150 range who will end up better than the #80 recruit. If we get Akinjo and Nolley it will be a good recruiting year. But, the worry is that these recruiting failures compound upon each other, each providing more "social proof" that something is wrong in Storrs and making it harder to close on the next guy. Also, the fact that kids switch from UConn in the last two days suggests that opposing coaches have some powerful negative recruiting pitch they can pull out if they need it. That's disturbing.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
4,383
Reaction Score
1,362
I doubt it's anything more than telling the kid he'll play against better opponents and get more coverage playing in the B1G than AAC.

I think these 60-100 range kids are tough. They want to make the league and generally speaking most won't but you have overbearing parents (see VJ for reference) who see their kid as their meal ticket.


It's true that there are probably a dozen players in the 120-150 range who will end up better than the #80 recruit. If we get Akinjo and Nolley it will be a good recruiting year. But, the worry is that these recruiting failures compound upon each other, each providing more "social proof" that something is wrong in Storrs and making it harder to close on the next guy. Also, the fact that kids switch from UConn in the last two days suggests that opposing coaches have some powerful negative recruiting pitch they can pull out if they need it. That's disturbing.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
1,493
Reaction Score
4,821
I doubt it's anything more than telling the kid he'll play against better opponents and get more coverage playing in the B1G than AAC.

I think these 60-100 range kids are tough. They want to make the league and generally speaking most won't but you have overbearing parents (see VJ for reference) who see their kid as their meal ticket.

Agree....i think I if things we've been hearing are somewhat true, our staff has done what they needed to get Wilson and Mathis. The parents have made the decision for them and there's no way to compete with that. The answer is to start maybe focusing on the parents more. The pattern has been.....win over the parents and you get the kid. For whatever reason, the parents haven't been feeling our staff. I truly believe we will get ours. Someone will soon buy what were selling....theres no question.
 

Waquoit

Mr. Positive
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
32,399
Reaction Score
83,242
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit.

Not odd at all. We lost said recruit to Rutgers. Rutgers. What's truly odd is that there really hasn't been that much of a meltdown here. We had plenty of dopey posters predicting a meltdown but like most deathstorm forecasts they were wrong. And what's even odder is a 1200+ word post titled "There is still plenty of reason for optimism" that as far as I can tell doesn't give us any reason for optimism.
 

UCweCONN

Former Poster
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,875
Reaction Score
6,610
You made great points and obviously thought about this alot, but long story short, there is no excuse for being apparently out worked, especially after our last few seasons. Our assistants and KO may be planting seeds, but we have yet to see results. We just need to close.
When you get divorced, you no longer have the same focus on your career. I can say this from experience. You get pulled in two directions and have a lot more stress. You also have much less flexibility to travel when you need to due to child care issues. I'm sure this is a big factor in us getting outworked.
 

Fishy

Elite Premium Poster
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
18,041
Reaction Score
130,623
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.

Hmm.

Mathis was their best chance of gaining a top 100 player in this class and they lost him to Rutgers.

We have a roster bomb set to explode in 18/19 and right now we couldn't sell ice water in the desert.

The meltdown is well-timed.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,577
Reaction Score
15,721
It is slightly odd the boneyard is melting down over a back end top 100 recruit. We really need some good news on the recruiting front.

I agree to a point. But it's not like we have had success lately with higher rank recruits. Are there others just as good that we are recruiting, yes.

Bottom line, need to close some. We should have a bunch of scholarships available and not one commitment.
 

ConnHuskBask

Shut Em Down!
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
8,961
Reaction Score
32,829
There is a lot of writing on the wall that suggests Kevin Ollie is on borrowed time. I am not here to dispute that. I am here to point to all of the writing that suggests he will be here for many years to come. And there is a lot of it.

Just remember, the greatest basketball team ever assembled took a page from Kevin Ollie's book. Steve Kerr was there, in Dallas, watching him re-invent the game.

What do those two blurbs even mean?
 

TRest

Horrible
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
7,859
Reaction Score
22,359
The Boneyard isn't melting down over a back end top 100 recruit, it's melting down because we can't get any recruits right now. The culture of the program is toxic right now, and Ollie's running out of time to change that before the 2018 recruiting class is complete.
My concern is kids like Mathis are our recruiting ceiling now.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
3,149
Reaction Score
8,314
You are lying to yourself if you aren't concerned that it's been over 2 years since we landed a top 100 recruit. Stock piling a roster of low 2/3 star juco recruits probably doesn't bode well for the 18/19" season. In fact it's down right frightening.
 

Rico444

In the mix for six
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
8,655
Reaction Score
29,686
My concern is kids like Mathis are our recruiting ceiling now.

Until (If?) Ollie gets his groove back, this is probably the case. I just hope if he doesn't get it back (which I'm starting to think may be the case) then it's not too late for our new coach to salvage our 2018 recruiting class.
 

Stainmaster

Occasionally Constructive
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
22,004
Reaction Score
41,501
You are lying to yourself if you aren't concerned that it's been over 2 years since we landed a top 100 recruit. Stock piling a roster of low 2/3 star juco recruits probably doesn't bode well for the 18/19" season. In fact it's down right frightening.

If you're going to complain about the roster, at least get it right and don't exaggerate how bad it is. Oh wait, that's too much to ask.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
16,302
Reaction Score
24,059
When you get divorced, you no longer have the same focus on your career. I can say this from experience. You get pulled in two directions and have a lot more stress. You also have much less flexibility to travel when you need to due to child care issues. I'm sure this is a big factor in us getting outworked.
Maybe that was part of the reason for the divorce. His wife not liking his complete time commitment to his job as coach and not to the family. Maybe the divorce process made him cranky and unpleasant to deal with. Players like to be happy, they're just kids themselves. His own kids are not extremely young, but being the head coach of a big time program is all encompassing unless you're one of the big boys and recruits are lined up outside the coach's office. We don't have that info nor should we but whatever the hell is going on it ain't good. One thing is for sure and that is that no coach in America can do this without recruiting talent, it all starts there. If KO is working his ass off right now that's all I can ask of him.
 

BUConn10

Artist formerly known as BUHusky10
Joined
Dec 13, 2011
Messages
4,067
Reaction Score
10,556
"Something something someone please praise my clairvoyance BONEYARD MELTDOWN."

Quite possibly the most played out meme on the Yard.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
3,486
Reaction Score
2,221
,,,,,,,,Someone will soon buy what were selling....theres no question.


ah - perhaps the $64 Q: What exactly IS UC selling, and HOW are they selling it????
 

Online statistics

Members online
637
Guests online
3,720
Total visitors
4,357

Forum statistics

Threads
156,883
Messages
4,068,951
Members
9,950
Latest member
Woody69


Top Bottom