The Worst Possible Out Come

[BlueMAB]

As far as adding new members they have been a headache. They wanted to maintain an equal balance so that they did not become in the minority. Hopefully they now see how backward that thinking was and will rubber stamp whatever additions the football side needs to make.

Who did they block us from adding that would have prevented this, and when did this happen?

 

[IMind]

Who did they block us from adding that would have prevented this, and when did this happen?

There was some scuttlebutt that the basketball schools were going to block Kansas and Kansas State if the Big 12 collapsed, last year. That's really all I can think of.

Here's the thing... nothing has to happen for quite a while... who the hell knows what will happen in the next 12-24 months. I don't want the Big East panic, back themselves in a corner, and add ECU and UCF... there's no real rush. Those schools will always be available. The Big 12 may still implode...

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Who did they block us from adding that would have prevented this, and when did this happen?

That's just my impression of the politics of it. They never wanted us to add anymore all sports members and the football only memberships are pretty corny if you ask me. I would have been OK with adding Houston and UCF a while ago if we couldn't get any teams from other BCS conferences. They could have had a couple of potentially successful seasons in the BE by now and the perception of them and our conference would have been different in my opinion.

 

[BlueMAB]

There was some scuttlebutt that the basketball schools were going to block Kansas and Kansas State if the Big 12 collapsed, last year. That's really all I can think of.

Here's the thing... nothing has to happen for quite a while... who the hell knows what will happen in the next 12-24 months. I don't want the Big East panic, back themselves in a corner, and add ECU and UCF... there's no real rush. Those schools will always be available. The Big 12 may still implode...

I find your first sentence very hard to believe.

I agree with your second paragraph 100%

 

[IMind]

I find your first sentence very hard to believe.

I agree with your second paragraph 100%

I agree... but the rumors were out there.

 

[BlueMAB]

That's just my impression of the politics of it. They never wanted us to add anymore all sports members and the football only memberships are pretty corny if you ask me. I would have been OK with adding Houston and UCF a while ago if we couldn't get any teams from other BCS conferences. They could have had a couple of potentially successful seasons in the BE by now and the perception of them and our conference would have been different in my opinion.

Everytime somebody blames Marinatto and the basketball schools, nobody can say who they prevented us from adding that would have prevented this. This is why I don't think Marinatto and the BB onlies deserve all of the blame.

If the football schools knew all along that this situation was inevitable and something had to be done, then why didn't we split at the first opportunity?

Because there were advantages to remaining and that was because of tradition and history of big east basketball.

Many posters are acting like UConn was a married man (to the FB schools) who had a mistress (the BB schools) and now wants to blame his mistress because his wife wants a divorce. If all of the FB presidents believed it was the BB schools holding them back, and they only had to split to prevent the big east all sports schools from falling apart, then they would have split. If Pitt/Cuse believed they could split, and add someone strong enough to stabilize the conference, they would have pushed for it. Nobody who could have saved the conference was interested in joining the conference.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Everytime somebody blames Marinatto and the basketball schools, nobody can say who they prevented us from adding that would have prevented this. This is why I don't think Marinatto and the BB onlies deserve all of the blame.

If the football schools knew all along that this situation was inevitable and something had to be done, then why didn't we split at the first opportunity?

Because there were advantages to remaining and that was because of tradition and history of big east basketball.

Many posters are acting like UConn was a married man (to the FB schools) who had a mistress (the BB schools) and now wants to blame his mistress because his wife wants a divorce. If all of the FB presidents believed it was the BB schools holding them back, and they only had to split to prevent the big east all sports schools from falling apart, then they would have split. If Pitt/Cuse believed they could split, and add someone strong enough to stabilize the conference, they would have pushed for it. Nobody who could have saved the conference was interested in joining the conference.

I don't think a split was advantageous at the time and it certainly is not now, however having the flexibility to add teams to the football conference could have helped. Say what you will about UCF and Houston and ECU but all of them have recent quality OOC wins that would have made the BE less irrelevent in football.

Would it have been enough, who knows? But I feel strongly that what the Big East needs to do right now is to go get some decent football schools that can win some decent games. With TCU, Houston, UCF, and ECU in the league next year and Cuse and Pitt still stuck here we could at least stage a going away conference championship game and have a pretty interesting season. We need to at least go out with a bang!

 

[freescooter]

The basketball schools are not the problem but the master plan (for expanding football membership) of upgrading Villanova (with an 18k stadium where they would be a secondary tenant) played an enormous role in where we are now.

Once again, if having these schools (who don't play football) is so beneficial, why does no other major conference do this?

We are very limited in what we can do by being as large as we are in all other sports and this has been exacerbated by the fact that over the past two decades most of the catholic members have had at least one extended stretch where they contributed nothing to the conference while happily taking their share of revenues.

One very telling difference between the BE and our closest competitor conference is that they were able to act quickly and decisively in adding members (when they were not in dire need of additional football membership). We went through a couple of years of gyrations just to get a vote that allowed us to pursue additional members (and it took the threat of the conference collapsing the prior summer just for that vote). After the vote was tallied, we were basically told that (after adding TCU) the only place to look for the second addition was Nova (and they tried to sell the 18k soccer stadium as some quality venue).

The problem isn't the basketball schools per se, it is exactly what FCF has outline. the league is too big, has too many diverse viewpoints and what is in the best interest of the football side is not in the best interest of basketball and vise versa. The ability to move quickly and decisivly is also crucial. The Big East has known for several years that it needed to add football members. But it couldn't do it.

 

[BlueMAB]

I don't think a split was advantageous at the time and it certainly is not now however having the flexibility to add teams to the football conference could have helped. Say what you will about UCF and Houston and ECU but all of the have recent quality OOC wins that would have made the BE less irrelevent in football. Would it have been enough, who knows? But I feel strongly that what the Big East needs to do right now is to go get some decent football schools that can win some decent games. With TCU, Houston, UCF, and ECU in the league next year and Cuse and Pitt still stuck here we could at least stage a going away conference championship game and have a pretty interesting season. We need to at least go out with a bang!

Our problem was never that we didn't have the flexibility to add teams, it's that no team that could have saved the big east ever wanted to join the big east. you don't team up with the weak, you join the strong.

Quality OOC wins are 100% irrelevant. Brand name is what matters. It isn't their fault, but no combination of those schools joining the big east would ever have prevented one of us from leaving for the ACC or B1G.

The only thing that would have saved the big east is if we had poached other BCS programs, but that was never going to happen because we were always the weakest of the BCS conferences in football brand names.

 

[ctchamps]

I get the impression that the Providence people were trying to balance the needs of the football and bb only schools and not playing favorites with the bb only schools. And that balancing act failed because in the end the different agendas of various universities could not be placated.

I'm in the camp that the blame game is worthless. I'll add it probably is wrong. The B12 and the ACC conferences are not hybrid models and the B12's implosion is greater than the BE's and the ACC is still vulnerable if FSU and VT leave.

The difficulty is consensus building. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. There was nothing wrong with anyone trying it even if the attempt failed. Pouring out our anger over failure by blaming someone or some group of people is counterproductive.

Everyone in the conference had a part in its outcome. But so did circumstances outside the conference which the conference had no control over. I would say I agree with the posters who make the claim that as football became more important than bb in determining media $$ the likelihood of a break up was increased. But that doesn't mean someone was in the right and someone was in the wrong.

From a purely monetary standpoint the football schools had no choice but to point out that their value to the conference was greater than the bb only schools value. But even with this obvious discrepancy, I suspect that not every football school examined things from a purely monetary standpoint and this created tension amongst some of these football only schools. And in spite of the monetary superiority the football schools offered, why should the bb schools defer to the football schools.

If prestige, wealth and power were the only parameters than every school should defer to, Texas and ESPN. And they should determine the college landscape and no one should protest it. I doubt anyone in this forum insisting the BB schools should have rolled over for the interests of the football schools would ever agree to be anyone else's B**ch! So lighten up on the BB only schools and people who advocated for themselves differently than you wanted them to advocate. Lighten up on the Providence dudes who tried their best to work with all sides of the BE members and just couldn't placate everyone in the end. happens no matter how much planning and thinking takes place. The best people and the best institutions don't recriminate. They adjust.

 

[BlueMAB]

The problem isn't the basketball schools per se, it is exactly what FCF has outline. the league is too big, has too many diverse viewpoints and what is in the best interest of the football side is not in the best interest of basketball and vise versa. The ability to move quickly and decisivly is also crucial. The Big East has known for several years that it needed to add football members. But it couldn't do it.

We added the defending Rose Bowl champions. A top 25 ranked team in a new market for us.

It didn't help at all.

Who would have joined if we had just been able to move a little quicker?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

We added the defending Rose Bowl champions. A top 25 ranked team in a new market for us.

It didn't help at all.

Who would have joined if we had just been able to move a little quicker?

They didn't even have time to get here before it all went down. We shouldn't have been playing with 8 teams for the last however many years. That is the problem.

 

[RS9999X]

The B12 is still talking about TAMU as a done deal to the SEC nd Missouri stays.

There are plans to approach BYU for #10.

If BYU accepts they will approach WVU and Lousville for #11 and #12.

If BYU declines they will approach WVU for #10. If Missouri stays there is the thought the SEC looks at WVU again.

They won't add TCU or SMU or consider any non-BCS teams (except BYU). Anywya, those are the rumors. There si the feeling that a win is needed to assuage egos and heal the bad feelings.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

The B12 is still talking about TAMU as a done deal to the SEC nd Missouri stays.

There are plans to approach BYU for #10.

If BYU accepts they will approach WVU and Lousville for #11 and #12.

If BYU declines they will approach WVU for #10. If Missouri stays there is the thought the SEC looks at WVU again.

They won't add TCU or SMU or consider any non-BCS teams (except BYU). Anywya, those are the rumors. There si the feeling that a win is needed to assuage egos and heal the bad feelings.

That would be a nightmare. The Big 12 would be on solid footing and the Big East would pretty much be done. If we lose WVU, and Louisville I don't see how we recover. I guess we wouldn't have a choice but to try but damn that would be bad. UConn, Rutgers, Cinci, and USF are not the core of a BCS football conference anyway you slice it. I can definitely see this happening though and have a really bad feeling about the consequences of the Big 12 surviving.

 

[upstater]

Missouri stays? They have an offer from the SEC--they are going to take it. No way they don't.

 

[RS9999X]

Big East Football was always a kluge. Always will be. It's the 5th wheel, the best of the rest. THE BEAST. Frankenstein's monster.

Trying to make it a regional with UMass, and Temple, and Navy, and Nova and Buffalo? No. I'll take Nova, ECU, UCF and stop at 10 for now. If WVU leaves it gets ugly. Add Boise is the only real option for BCS purposes and then add Nova, ECU, UCF. If Louisville and WVU leave? Then why pretend? UConn and Rutgers are the only two remnants left. There's no identity there.

 

[ctchamps]

Missouri stays? They have an offer from the SEC--they are going to take it. No way they don't.

I agree. That ship has sailed.

 

[BlueMAB]

Boy you are blind. TCU was a bone Marinatto threw to the FB schools. Why was Notre Dame, one of the most storied football programs in history invited into the Big East? Certainly not to play football, but Tranghese didn't care. Big East Football was valuable at one time. Miami, Virginia Tech, BC, Cuse, WVU, Pitt, and lets throw in UCONN and Rutgers, they seem like a pretty valuable group to me. Gee why did they leave? I'll ask the question again.... Case in point, The Big East Basketball network, you know Ronny Perry, Bucky Waters, Bob Picozzi and company. Great right? Love watching them. Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why? Marinatto and Tranghese and the other catholic bball schools just don't care about football, case closed.

LMAO.

If I'm blind then you're deaf and dumb because you don't listen and can't understand a simple fact.

No matter how valuable the big east was with those schools, the ACC was more valuable. That's why they left.

Whether we split from the bball schools or add more football schools, there was nobody strong enough to save us, that would have joined.

Keep blaming Notre Dame for the fact that UConn/Rutgers/Cincy/Louisville and USF just don't interest anyone nationally when it comes to football.

If the football schools were strong enough on their own, the conference would never have falled apart because they would have been able to attract/retain top programs. That the basketball schools didn't help us do that is irrelevant. Football is driving the bus, and the reason we fell apart is because we have relatively weak football brand names.

 

[BlueMAB]

They didn't even have time to get here before it all went down. We shouldn't have been playing with 8 teams for the last however many years. That is the problem.

But Pitt/Cuse knew they were coming and left anyway, so whether or not they arrived is moot.

What teams did the basketball schools prevent us from adding? Why are 9, 10, or 11 dwarfs better than 8? What additional team did the BB schools veto that would have joined and could have prevented anyone from leaving for the ACC if offered?

 

[huskyrob1]

When the conference shrinks, when revenue sinks, the Big EAst officers are less likely to get raises and bonuses. You really think they don't care about this? REally?

Again, any criticism without stating what you would have done as Commissioner that you actually could have done as Commissioner is pointless.

Sure they care about that but it doesn't mean they didn't make huge mistakes because they were beholdened to Gavitt, Providence and the other basketball schools and neglected the football side of things. And those past mistakes have made the Big East untenable. Marinatto and Tranghese and the other Providence cronies were/are fools that fiddled while Rome burned and Dave Gavitts dream of a basketball super conf while healthy back in the day is coming crashing down because those guys failed to realize years ago that football broadcasting dollars was becoming far more lucrative to D1 FB schools than contracts with MSG. When the first couple FB schools made noises about leaving, they did not take the appropriate steps to save the conf because they pompously refused to see it coming, as long as the BET was safe their motivation to do anything was low. Now Marinatto/Tranghese and the rest of the basketball school mafia are sweating but it's way too late. Consider this....The Big East Basketball network, you know Ronny Perry, Bucky Waters, Bob Picozzi and company. Great right? Love watching them. Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

But Pitt/Cuse knew they were coming and left anyway, so whether or not they arrived is moot.

What teams did the basketball schools prevent us from adding? Why are 9, 10, or 11 dwarfs better than 8? What additional team did the BB schools veto that would have joined and could have prevented anyone from leaving for the ACC if offered?

If they are dwarfs you better have an army of them and not a tiny brigade.....

 

[BlueMAB]

Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why?

There's no big east football network because marinatto failed to satisfy the cravings of literally thousands of fans. He's such a moron.

 

[BlueMAB]

If they are dwarfs you better have an army of them and not a tiny brigade.....

Why, so we can split less money more ways? How does bringing in less revenue help us?
Who did the BB onlies prevent us from adding?

 

[RS9999X]

If Missouri sails its the worse case scenario. The BIG-12 can add teams, the BE doesn't have their contract in order.

I haven't seen a BYU, WVU and NYC market (Rutgers and UConn) rumor but who knows? Things changed with SU and Missouri and Pitt in the last few days. If you think about it, if TAMU and Missouri are gone the B12 will have to sprawl.

BYU, WVU and NYC market (Rutgers and UConn) would leave everyone feeling a ltitle better

EPSN could reopen the ACC and the BIG12 and nail a figure that is much less than a new BE contract.

 

[businesslawyer]

I get the impression that the Providence people were trying to balance the needs of the football and bb only schools and not playing favorites with the bb only schools. And that balancing act failed because in the end the different agendas of various universities could not be placated.

I'm in the camp that the blame game is worthless. I'll add it probably is wrong. The B12 and the ACC conferences are not hybrid models and the B12's implosion is greater than the BE's and the ACC is still vulnerable if FSU and VT leave.

The difficulty is consensus building. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails. There was nothing wrong with anyone trying it even if the attempt failed. Pouring out our anger over failure by blaming someone or some group of people is counterproductive.

Everyone in the conference had a part in its outcome. But so did circumstances outside the conference which the conference had no control over. I would say I agree with the posters who make the claim that as football became more important than bb in determining media $$ the likelihood of a break up was increased. But that doesn't mean someone was in the right and someone was in the wrong.

From a purely monetary standpoint the football schools had no choice but to point out that their value to the conference was greater than the bb only schools value. But even with this obvious discrepancy, I suspect that not every football school examined things from a purely monetary standpoint and this created tension amongst some of these football only schools. And in spite of the monetary superiority the football schools offered, why should the bb schools defer to the football schools.

If prestige, wealth and power were the only parameters than every school should defer to, Texas and ESPN. And they should determine the college landscape and no one should protest it. I doubt anyone in this forum insisting the BB schools should have rolled over for the interests of the football schools would ever agree to be anyone else's B**ch! So lighten up on the BB only schools and people who advocated for themselves differently than you wanted them to advocate. Lighten up on the Providence dudes who tried their best to work with all sides of the BE members and just couldn't placate everyone in the end. happens no matter how much planning and thinking takes place. The best people and the best institutions don't recriminate. They adjust.

Stop being rational. Just make fun of some Italian last names and you'll fit in better.