The Worst Possible Out Come

[CTBballfan243]

But the Hybrid model doesn't work. UCONN needs to be in a conference with schools they have something in common with. Frankly I am surprised that the basketball only schools don't want to form their own conference. Seton Hall and Providence in a catholic league would actually have a chance to win every now and then. They would be competing against schools with similar athletic budgets. I would think they would like that.

 

[BlueMAB]

They are the problem. I don't think Marinatto cares about anything that's happened in the past 10 days, just like when Tranghese didn't give a sh...it 5 years ago. Face facts, Providence College founded and still runs the Big East purely as a showcase and money making venture for college basketball. Yeah, pay lip service to the football schools, throw'm a bone like TCU, but face facts 5 premier football programs have left the league since 2006. Do you think it's coincidence that two of the best coaches in the game today, Rick Barnes and Rick Pitino coached at Providence or that Billy Donovan played there? Marinatto and Tranghese couldn't care less about the problems facing UCONN with respect to it's football program with what's been happening the past 2 weeks.

You don't think Marinatto cares about losing Pitt, Quse, and potentially UConn?

UConn and Quse have won 4 combined national championships for the conference in the past 12 years, the rest of the conference.....zero.

Cuse, Uconn, and Pitt, OWN MSG during the BET, but the conference doesn't care if we leave? We are 3 of the 4 (Ville) most succesfull basketball programs in the conference the past 10+ years, but they don't care if we leave?

WTF are some of you thinking?

 

[huskyrob1]

You don't think Marinatto cares about losing Pitt, Quse, and potentially UConn?

UConn and Quse have won 4 combined national championships for the conference in the past 12 years, the rest of the conference.....zero.

Cuse, Uconn, and Pitt, OWN MSG during the BET, but the conference doesn't care if we leave? We are 3 of the 4 (Ville) most succesfull basketball programs in the conference the past 10+ years, but they don't care if we leave?

WTF are some of you thinking?

For it's effect on basketball, MSG, and the BET, yes of course, but his caring stops there.

 

[BlueMAB]

No, he said that the ACC was the only conference that geographically could take BE catholic schools.

He was wrong in his geography and he left out the fact that there are non BE, non football schools with strong basketball traditions yet no major conference anywhere has looked into adding any of these schools.

If it is such a great idea someone else would have tried it. This is an industry of followers. One conference (the SEC) expands to twelve and has a championship game and within a few years another does the same, within a decade there is a third and slightly more than a half dozen years later two more pop up (at the cost of one). Soneone would have followed suit on football optional membership if it was a good idea. If you believe this is wrong, argue it yourself.

Which conference could/would have taken them, and how would it have improved them financially?

Which schools scpecifiically are you talking about that are non BE, non football schools with strong basketball traditions, and what markets are they located in?

How would those schools improve other BCS conferences financially over their current situation?
Nobody has said it is preferrable, or even a great idea. But I'm still waiting for someone to explain what exactly the basketball schools did to harm the football schools' product on the field. What did they do to prevent us from improving the conference? What did they do to harm us financially? What did they do hold back improving our football brand?

Why is the conference more stable and valuable without them? Because we can add ECU, UCF, and Houston within a week instead of 1 year?

 

[BlueMAB]

For it's effect on basketball, MSG, and the BET, yes of course, but his caring stops there.

Please explain.

He cares, only a little bit?

Not enough to want to keep them around?

He doesn't care what happens to the football side? He's happy with the Big East basically falling apart? Why hasn't he convinced the basketball schools to leave, since they are so much more important and valuable without Cuse, Pitt, and potentially UConn?

 

[BlueMAB]

But the Hybrid model doesn't work. UCONN needs to be in a conference with schools they have something in common with. Frankly I am surprised that the basketball only schools don't want to form their own conference. Seton Hall and Providence in a catholic league would actually have a chance to win every now and then. They would be competing against schools with similar athletic budgets. I would think they would like that.

Name the last program outside of a power conference to win a national championship.

And why would seton hall and providence be more succesful in March because they come from a league with similar athletic budgets, when come March, they are still going to have to compete against the big boys?

 

[HartbeatHusky]

If we have no options then we are here unless or until some open up. The basketball schools have been holding back football from getting to a sustainable number of football schools. At this point I am sure they are willing to do whatever it takes to keep this thing together and at least have a shot at keeping our BCS bid. We will have it for the next couple years and because of that if the other conferences aren't all going to 16 we really don't have much to worry about for the next couple years. So my attitude right now is whatever. We need to move quick though just to look like we are holding something together.

I'm pretty sure that we are going to be in a conference with Temple, East Carolina, Memphis, UCF, and Houston by the end of the week. There is probably no way that we will ever be able to get that TV deal back that we passed on but who really knows. Maybe NBC/Comcast wants to throw a monkey wrench into ESPN's plans. They need the content anyway and would maybe be willing to give us enough money to surpass the ACC's deal just to prop us up. It's really our only hope for the moment since it seems like Notre Dame and Texas are staying put and the other conferences are going to stand pat.

Big East Basketball will still be valuable so who knows. I'm not optimistic but trying to look at the bright side of it.

 

[BlueMAB]

If we have no options then we are here unless or until some open up. The basketball schools have been holding back football from getting to a sustainable number of football schools.

I don't know why some of you can't understand this but it's not about quantity, it's about quality when it comes to the big east.

Even if the basketball schools agreed to bring in ECU, UCF, Houston, Navy, Air Force, Army, WHOEVER....

Cuse, Pitt, and UConn would still leave at the first opportunity because it would still be a weak, and therefore unstable, conference. Not unstable because of the hybrid system. Unstable because the cache/tradition of the football schools is very limited, and thereforey easily consumed by larger conferences with more tradition/prestige and better market share.

Football drives the bus, and we're a conference who's major footprint doesn't value college football as much as they do other sports. Like basketball.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I don't know why some of you can't understand this but it's not about quantity, it's about quality when it comes to the big east.

Even if the basketball schools agreed to bring in ECU, UCF, Houston, Navy, Air Force, Army, WHOEVER....

Cuse, Pitt, and UConn would still leave at the first opportunity because it would still be a weak, and therefore unstable, conference. Not unstable because of the hybrid system. Unstable because the cache/tradition of the football schools is very limited, and thereforey easily consumed by larger conferences with more tradition/prestige and better market share.

Football drives the bus, and we're a conference who's major footprint doesn't value college football as much as they do other sports. Like basketball.

I'm not saying we wouldn't leave but if we can't this is what we are going to have to do. This Big East will still have name brand schools for Basketball and hopefully WVU and TCU as far as football goes and could be viable at least while we wait for something better to come along. We may be waiting for a very long time if the PAC 12 is really not going to 16.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm not saying we wouldn't leave but if we can't this is what we are going to have to do. This Big East will still have name brand schools for Basketball and hopefully WVU and TCU as far as football goes and could be viable at least while we wait for something better to come along. We may be waiting for a very long time if the PAC 12 is really not going to 16.

I don't disagree with any of that, what I disagreed with was your statement that the basketball schools were holding the football schools back.

If the football schools could have added mulitple BCS programs and split they would have, but who was going to leave the ACC/Big 10 or Big 12 for the Big East? We would have had to add a non-AQ program and have them upgraded, and that would have done nothing to bring more stability to the conference and keep anyone from leaving, whether the basketball schools were in favor of the additions or not.

Need proof? We added TCU, arguably the best available non-AQ program out there. Dallas/Fort Worth market, top 25 ranked program, just won the Rose Bowl, upgrading their stadium, etc, etc. Cuse/Pitt still left, and we would have too.

 

[huskyrob1]

Please explain.

He cares, only a little bit?

Not enough to want to keep them around?

He doesn't care what happens to the football side? He's happy with the Big East basically falling apart? Why hasn't he convinced the basketball schools to leave, since they are so much more important and valuable without Cuse, Pitt, and potentially UConn?

No he doesn't, and it is increasingly making the Big East untenable. Marinatto and Tranghese and the other Providence cronies and Dave Gavitts dream of a super basketball conf is coming crashing down because those guys failed to realize years ago that football broadcasting dollars was becoming far more lucrative to D1 FB schools than contracts with MSG. When the first couple FB schools made noises about leaving, Mike Tranghese fiddled while Rome burned. Now him and the rest of the basketball school mafia are sweating but it's way too late. Case in point, The Big East Basketball network, you know Ronny Perry, Bucky Waters, Bob Picozzi and company. Great right? Love watching them. Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why?

 

[willie99]

it's not the fact that we have an expanded basketball conference, it's the fact that we don't have a strong enough football conference and nobody trusted each other, thinking the other guy might bolt so I might as well secure my own future

the strength of our basketball conference was an asset, not a liability

having said that, if that's the format going forward, the basketball only schools take a back seat with respect to making decisions about expansion and contracts. They simply carry less weight.

And if ND isn't tossed away, they carry no weight

 

[BlueMAB]

No he doesn't, and it is increasingly making the Big East untenable. Marinatto and Tranghese and the other Providence cronies and Dave Gavitts dream of a super basketball conf is coming crashing down because those guys failed to realize years ago that football broadcasting dollars was becoming far more lucrative to D1 FB schools than contracts with MSG. When the first couple FB schools made noises about leaving, Mike Tranghese fiddled while Rome burned. Now him and the rest of the basketball school mafia are sweating but it's way too late. Case in point, The Big East Basketball network, you know Ronny Perry, Bucky Waters, Bob Picozzi and company. Great right? Love watching them. Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why?

You've got to be kidding. If Big East football was so valuable and stocked that it warranted it's own network, then why did Cuse and Pitt leave? For basketball?

Why did Marinatto bother going along with the addition of TCU if he didn't care about football at all?

What was Tranghese/Marinatto supposed to do to keep the football schools from leaving, is anyone going to answer that question? And if you say bring in another non-AQ team, I'd like to point out we did that after the raid, and before the most current defection, and it did nothing to improve our stability either time.

If you're arguing he should have split the conference, then you're arguing he should have worked against the best interests of half of his employers. I'm sure that wouldn't result in him losing a paycheck or year's worth.

 

[huskyrob1]

You've got to be kidding. If Big East football was so valuable and stocked that it warranted it's own network, then why did Cuse and Pitt leave? For basketball?

Why did Marinatto bother going along with the addition of TCU if he didn't care about football at all?

What was Tranghese/Marinatto supposed to do to keep the football schools from leaving, is anyone going to answer that question? And if you say bring in another non-AQ team, I'd like to point out we did that after the raid, and before the most current defection, and it did nothing to improve our stability either time.

If you're arguing he should have split the conference, then you're arguing he should have worked against the best interests of half of his employers. I'm sure that wouldn't result in him losing a paycheck or year's worth.

Boy you are blind. TCU was a bone Marinatto threw to the FB schools. Why was Notre Dame, one of the most storied football programs in history invited into the Big East? Certainly not to play football, but Tranghese didn't care. Big East Football was valuable at one time. Miami, Virginia Tech, BC, Cuse, WVU, Pitt, and lets throw in UCONN and Rutgers, they seem like a pretty valuable group to me. Gee why did they leave? I'll ask the question again.... Case in point, The Big East Basketball network, you know Ronny Perry, Bucky Waters, Bob Picozzi and company. Great right? Love watching them. Ever hear of the Big East Football Network? No? Why? Marinatto and Tranghese and the other catholic bball schools just don't care about football, case closed.

 

[huskyrob1]

it's not the fact that we have an expanded basketball conference, it's the fact that we don't have a strong enough football conference and nobody trusted each other, thinking the other guy might bolt so I might as well secure my own future

the strength of our basketball conference was an asset, not a liability

having said that, if that's the format going forward, the basketball only schools take a back seat with respect to making decisions about expansion and contracts. They simply carry less weight.

And if ND isn't tossed away, they carry no weight

It's only an asset if the Big East is ONLY a basketball conference (which was Gavitts dream BTW), but it's not, it's an all sports conference in which more than half of the founding charter members could't afford to even field a football team, and that my friend is a HUGE liability in terms of league cohesiveness.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

If only Dave Gavitt grew up a Football fanatic instead of a Basketball fanatic!

 

[uconNYC]

If SEC adds TAMU and B12 then invites UL, UC and WVU to get to 12, I presume TCU would remain in the MWC and UConn, RU and USF would probably just play as an independent with some sort of scheduling alliance with the former Big East schools.

 

[ZooCougar]

I don't understand why people continue to stick up for and defend Marinatto and Tranghese.

I guess, it's totally valid that football-wise they were never dealt a great hand to play. Our current members and that still includes Pitt and Syracuse don't have the cache and the fanbase. But... once upon a time Tranghese did have two transcendent programs in Miami and Virginia Tech. And... instead of actually building a football empire, he just maintained a pretty half assed football conference.

There was no strategic thought or direction in place. Actually there was one, but it doomed us to this state of affairs.

The Big East took the old Eastern Indies minus Penn State and threw them into a conference. Rutgers, Temple, WVU, SU and Pitt were all basically playing eachother yearly or regularly. Virginia Tech way back in the day was basically a place sort of like ECU in football stature. Throw Miami in and the conference had a legit power with superstar status.

I remember reading about the establishment of the old Big East football conference as a freshman or sophomore in high school in "The National" (remember that rag?). It was derided basically as creating a conference for Miami so that it could dominate it every year. That wasn't too far off the mark. The direction of TV contracts was probably the major driver in all of this.

Mistake #1: Not taking FSU as Miami's principal rival.

Mistake #2: Putting the conference together and basically doing nothing to maintain it. The management in Providence are basketball people who never considered that the Big East Football conference needed further development. Yeah they did add Virginia Tech, but that never really stabilized things.

So basically Big East Football became Miami and a bunch of dwarves. We had a single point of failure and instead protecting it, they just basically did nothing to build value.

We lost this war in the first raid. Fairfield County Fan nailed it the other day. If we are the Confederacy, then losing Virginia Tech and Miami were our Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Like the Confederacy, we had some good high points after the turning point, but we were never able build on that.

Mistake #3: Pissing off Pitt. Pitt was always one of the most enthusiastic players in rebuilding the conference. They went out and secured TCU. They also had the brains to see that Villanova was a non-starter.

Once they lost confidence in the Conference leadership and their partners, they decided to cut and run and that gave the ACC two willing teams that were ready to leave. Syracuse always had their bags packed.

But the biggest mistake overall must be the general lack of enthusiasm and expertise on the football side. When Marinatto, Tranghese and Co. shut the lights out each night their true concern and sympathy was with the Basketball schools. You can see this in their statements this week.

The irony is that due to all of their efforts to protect the basketball schools, they basically hurt them in the long run by not handling football right since day one. They saw to it that we had exactly 8 on each side to assure a balance of power. Which is utterly ridiculous. You think that Seton Hall and Providence have as much at stake in all of this as WVU, Rutgers, UConn, USF, Louisville and Cincy?

We add TCU and then the hoop schools want to push for a 'Nova upgrade so that they can effectively preserve their balance? Ridiculous and outrageous on all counts.

So basically yeah, Providence has a big part in the mess we are in. By protecting their buddies they have effectively sabotaged our growth and progress.

You Providence apologists can stomp your feet all you want, but there is absolutely no question whatsoever where their sympathies and allegiances have been since day one.

I blame the Presidents as well. They have the power to end this regime, but they just kept buying in and reinvesting in a failing model.

 

[businesslawyer]

They are the problem. I don't think Marinatto cares about anything that's happened in the past 10 days, just like when Tranghese didn't give a sh...it 5 years ago. Face facts, Providence College founded and still runs the Big East purely as a showcase and money making venture for college basketball. Yeah, pay lip service to the football schools, throw'm a bone like TCU, but face facts 5 premier football programs have left the league since 2006. Do you think it's coincidence that two of the best coaches in the game today, Rick Barnes and Rick Pitino coached at Providence or that Billy Donovan played there? Marinatto and Tranghese couldn't care less about the problems facing UCONN with respect to it's football program with what's been happening the past 2 weeks.

When the conference shrinks, when revenue sinks, the Big EAst officers are less likely to get raises and bonuses. You really think they don't care about this? REally?

Again, any criticism without stating what you would have done as Commissioner that you actually could have done as Commissioner is pointless.

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't understand why people continue to stick up for and defend Marinatto and Tranghese.

I guess, it's totally valid that football-wise they were never dealt a great hand to play. Our current members and that still includes Pitt and Syracuse don't have the cache and the fanbase. But... once upon a time Tranghese did have two transcendent programs in Miami and Virginia Tech. And... instead of actually building a football empire, he just maintained a pretty half assed football conference.

There was no strategic thought or direction in place. Actually there was one, but it doomed us to this state of affairs.

The Big East took the old Eastern Indies minus Penn State and threw them into a conference. Rutgers, Temple, WVU, SU and Pitt were all basically playing eachother yearly or regularly. Virginia Tech way back in the day was basically a place sort of like ECU in football stature. Throw Miami in and the conference had a legit power with superstar status.

I remember reading about the establishment of the old Big East football conference as a freshman or sophomore in high school in "The National" (remember that rag?). It was derided basically as creating a conference for Miami so that it could dominate it every year. That wasn't too far off the mark. The direction of TV contracts was probably the major driver in all of this.

Mistake #1: Not taking FSU as Miami's principal rival.

Mistake #2: Putting the conference together and basically doing nothing to maintain it. The management in Providence are basketball people who never considered that the Big East Football conference needed further development. Yeah they did add Virginia Tech, but that never really stabilized things.

So basically Big East Football became Miami and a bunch of dwarves. We had a single point of failure and instead protecting it, they just basically did nothing to build value.

We lost this war in the first raid. Fairfield County Fan nailed it the other day. If we are the Confederacy, then losing Virginia Tech and Miami were our Gettysburg and Vicksburg. Like the Confederacy, we had some good high points after the turning point, but we were never able build on that.

Mistake #3: Pissing off Pitt. Pitt was always one of the most enthusiastic players in rebuilding the conference. They went out and secured TCU. They also had the brains to see that Villanova was a non-starter.

Once they lost confidence in the Conference leadership and their partners, they decided to cut and run and that gave the ACC two willing teams that were ready to leave. Syracuse always had their bags packed.

But the biggest mistake overall must be the general lack of enthusiasm and expertise on the football side. When Marinatto, Tranghese and Co. shut the lights out each night their true concern and sympathy was with the Basketball schools. You can see this in their statements this week.

The irony is that due to all of their efforts to protect the basketball schools, they basically hurt them in the long run by not handling football right since day one. They saw to it that we had exactly 8 on each side to assure a balance of power. Which is utterly ridiculous. You think that Seton Hall and Providence have as much at stake in all of this as WVU, Rutgers, UConn, USF, Louisville and Cincy?

We add TCU and then the hoop schools want to push for a 'Nova upgrade so that they can effectively preserve their balance? Ridiculous and outrageous on all counts.

So basically yeah, Providence has a big part in the mess we are in. By protecting their buddies they have effectively sabotaged our growth and progress.

You Providence apologists can stomp your feet all you want, but there is absolutely no question whatsoever where their sympathies and allegiances have been since day one.

I blame the Presidents as well. They have the power to end this regime, but they just kept buying in and reinvesting in a failing model.

You don't understand why people are sticking up for the offices in Providence? Very simply:

I am not saying they've done a great job -- I am criticizing the critics. Why? Because every post wasted on blaming Providence diverts thought, resources and understanding from the real problem, which is our member programs need to build fan bases, sell more tickets and get more donations over time. And every time you waste bandwidth with this irrational drivel of needing someone to blame for a mess that you could not have gottten us out of you, you, put us one step further from addressing the real solutions to the problem.

You don't fix problems in life by blaming people who didn't have the ability to solve them in the first place.

 

[ZooCougar]

You don't understand why people are sticking up for the offices in Providence? Very simply:

I am not saying they've done a great job -- I am criticizing the critics. Why? Because every post wasted on blaming Providence diverts thought, resources and understanding from the real problem, which is our member programs need to build fan bases, sell more tickets and get more donations over time. And every time you waste bandwidth with this irrational drivel of needing someone to blame for a mess that you could not have gottten us out of you, you, put us one step further from addressing the real solutions to the problem.

You don't fix problems in life by blaming people who didn't have the ability to solve them in the first place.

Or. You fire Providence. If the hoop schools don't like that then they are welcome to join the A-10.

You have to fix the right problem. In this case the root cause of this is the bad management. Bad management lowers the collective ceiling on many fronts.

UConn as you guys love to say "came from trailers". We built the fanbase, we have donors, we did all of the above you just mentioned.

It doesn't matter what we do from here forward because the Conferenc leadership has become such an awful liability that all of our hard work can be undone because we have a Conference leadership that really doesn't have our best interests in mind.

 

[IMind]

You don't understand why people are sticking up for the offices in Providence? Very simply:

I am not saying they've done a great job -- I am criticizing the critics. Why? Because every post wasted on blaming Providence diverts thought, resources and understanding from the real problem, which is our member programs need to build fan bases, sell more tickets and get more donations over time. And every time you waste bandwidth with this irrational drivel of needing someone to blame for a mess that you could not have gottten us out of you, you, put us one step further from addressing the real solutions to the problem.

You don't fix problems in life by blaming people who didn't have the ability to solve them in the first place.

I'm with you that blaming Providence doesn't get any traction. My main beef yesterday was the Navy/Air Force play... it sounds too much like the attempt to bring 'Nova up... but still blaming them really doesn't do anything. There just aren't a lot of options out there.

Anyone who thinks this is strictly about the hybrid model is crazy. The Big 12 (8, 9) whatever is in just as bad shape... A&M wants out, Missouri has a deal in place if everything falls apart, but don't really want to leave, Texas has shopped themselves around to everyone and their brother... now they've got to pick up the pieces and probably add C-USA and/or MWC schools just like the Big East does...

Our situation probably hasn't changed much from last week. Texas and Notre Dame STILL aren't going to the ACC... the issue is this isn't going to be resolved as soon as we want.

 

[Jarhead_1775]

If I hear one more mf'ing thing about mf'ing Nova or Air Force, I'm going to throw up.

 

[BlueMAB]

I'm not defending Marinatto per se, I'm simply asking what it was the basketball schools did that prevented the football schools from strengthing that side of the conference, and how Marinatto helped.

I still haven't gotten an answer.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I'm not defending Marinatto per se, I'm simply asking what it was the basketball schools did that prevented the football schools from strengthing that side of the conference, and how Marinatto helped.

I still haven't gotten an answer.

As far as adding new members they have been a headache. They wanted to maintain an equal balance so that they did not become in the minority. Hopefully they now see how backward that thinking was and will rubber stamp whatever additions the football side needs to make.