The Walking Dead - Season 7

[meyers7]

For f sakes enough with the made-up elaborate backstories and historical comparisons. Doesn't matter what might have happened anywhere, only matters what we see. They simply need to show us on the boob tube that Negan has protection OR not constantly dwell on Dwight's side-eye saying "I'm a Rick insurgence away from flipping on Negan"

Hence why you really don't get this show. There's a little more to it than your normal surface TV shows. You kinda gotta think about this one a bit. Right or wrong, that's kinda how it is.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Hence why you really don't get this show. There's a little more to it than your normal surface TV shows. You kinda gotta think about this one a bit. Right or wrong, that's kinda how it is.

I am Mr. Beneath the Surface & Captain Silence Speaks Volumes, its just not there on this show (i.e. recommend "In the Bedroom" great movie, no zombies). TWD backstory is all in your head & Kirkman's. Kirkman's version is his friends' had hot girlfriends/wives that he wanted to bone so he imagined taking an iron to their faces. Not coincidental that its in an episode where Kirkman is also Eugene getting humiliated by women/Rosita. Comic books have become cool over last 10-ish years & of course TWD making $$$ so I expect these issues will work themselves out

 

[meyers7]

I am Mr. Beneath the Surface & Captain Silence Speaks Volumes, its just not there on this show (i.e. recommend "In the Bedroom" great movie, no zombies). TWD backstory is all in your head & Kirkman's. Kirkman's version is his friends' had hot girlfriends/wives that he wanted to bone so he imagined taking an iron to their faces. Not coincidental that its in an episode where Kirkman is also Eugene getting humiliated by women/Rosita. Comic books have become cool over last 10-ish years & of course TWD making $$$ so I expect these issues will work themselves out

Maybe, but Kirkman is married and has a kid. and $$$$, so he probably doesn't have too many issues.
Or maybe you're projecting.

 

[Dove]

Amazing mid-season finale I must say. If only Spencer, while drinking on the porch with Neegs, said, "Negan. Bubby!!! I'm your white knight!" All I saw was that Ellis/Gruber scene in Die Hard.

Any way...Alexandria and Hilltop are about to unite. Next season The Kingdom I assume is on board. Maybe GirlTown, USA.

Then we find out what f#^%k what in that armor get-up at the end of the trailer.

(The spy dude...not intrigued enough)

 

[Fishy]

lol....it took eight episodes to get here?

The 'everyone nodding at each other in solemn agreement' scene at the end was painful.

This is what happens when a well runs dry.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Can Daryl speak? He hasn't said a line for episodes now it seems.

Of course that women shot Olivia. She was so important to the story

How did Rosita miss that poorly from that close. The least they could do is miss from distance, make it believable.

For once Negan did Rick(and the viewers) an actual service, Spencer sucked, glad they finally killed him off.

How did Jesus know where Daryl was kept hostage? Where'd he get a key?

Not that it matters, but is Heath alive? I don't want them wasting an episode on his journey after losing Tara.

 

[Tommyboy]

lol....it took eight episodes to get here?

The 'everyone nodding at each other in solemn agreement' scene at the end was painful.

This is what happens when a well runs dry.

Holy cow you are not kidding. That whole half-season was just flat out meh. I loved Negan in the comic books but it really doesn't translate well to TV.

This is all I could think about during the nodding scene:

 

[Dogdeacon]

I liked the episode, we'll return to clusterfvks soon enough, but for once they moved adroitly with multiple storylines going somewhere in the same episode & brought it all together.

 

[Dove]

Bouncing from setting to setting was definitely refreshing.

It can't be easy writing all the content they needed with 8 episodes (9 hours) We are left with 60 minute slogs...seeing Carol amused by The Kingdom. Tara in GirlTown, USA. But it is what it is and the bank on the openers and closers to each half-season.

Very easy to go all Negan bat-crazy on each episode. Sure, small characters like Spencer and Olivia were cast off....but remember we just lost Abe and Glenn. Next up...Gregory and Eugene? Sasha?

Anyway...for non-comic readers it will be fun to predict how the war will play out. In the trailers we saw Rick talking to Ezekial. And we know Maggie is on board (loved that apple scene).

The Governor lasted two seasons. Maybe 3. Will be interesting to see how long Negan does. Next half season will be his third.

 

[Dove]

I liked the episode, we'll return to clusterfvks soon enough, but for once they moved adroitly with multiple storylines going somewhere in the same episode & brought it all together.

Not sure if there will be clusterducks this upcoming season. The big wheel is moving and war is coming. Truly bad writers can only f this up. This past half season required set-ups that were definitely tripped over.

 

[meyers7]

Can Daryl speak? He hasn't said a line for episodes now it seems.

Keep costs down. Do you know how popular Norman is?

Of course that women shot Olivia. She was so important to the story

Maybe she was aiming for Carl and is just a bad shot?

How did Rosita miss that poorly from that close. The least they could do is miss from distance, make it believable.

Because TV. (See any TV show or movie where guns are fired at a main character.)
Better question is how did the bullet not shatter the bat?

For once Negan did Rick(and the viewers) an actual service, Spencer sucked, glad they finally killed him off.

Even the actor said his character was a . I guess that death was straight out of the comics.

How did Jesus know where Daryl was kept hostage? Where'd he get a key?

He's freaking duh.

Not that it matters, but is Heath alive? I don't want them wasting an episode on his journey after losing Tara.

I imagine he is alive. He was a medium important character in the comics. Doubt they would kill him off without showing it. They showed Olivia and Denise's death's, they would show Heath's (if he has one??).

 

[Dogdeacon]

Again I really liked the episode, but its just fun to do this Meyers-bringgs show rationalizations tests.
1. So your society-building is Maggie takes over Hilltop b/c she can drive a tractor and one guy at Kingdom lost his family so knows a dictator must eventually be stopped? Not exactly high complexity sociological interaction, or did I MISS something again?
2. Why have Carol and Morgan persist with the pacifist bs, I was glad they were on-screen because they are good actors, but why show them taking their cards off the table when everyone else anti's in? Seems really obvious dumb inevitable setup of a flip-flop in aforementioned clusterfuk episode to come next half-season.
3. The Rosita scene is correctly identified as most suspension of disbelief unraveling. I thought maybe Negan blocked the bullet with his bat like Wonder Woman. Then I called BS on Negan immediately examining the bullet and identifying as homemade and making a big deal - what about WHERE DID YOU GET THE GUN?! Lastly if you are going to have your bad arse military chick miss from close range when aiming right at someone you can't end the scene by having someone else magically whirl around in a circle and shoot someone dead in the eye.
4. Negan scratched on his last shot

 

[meyers7]

Again I really liked the episode, but its just fun to do this Meyers-bringgs show rationalizations tests.

I usually test as ISTJ, although I have tested E and P also. But always ST. Figures huh?

1. So your society-building is Maggie takes over Hilltop b/c she can drive a tractor and one guy at Kingdom lost his family so knows a dictator must eventually be stopped? Not exactly high complexity sociological interaction, or did I MISS something again?

I don't recall saying the society building was supposed to be complex. But they do show varied ways to build a local society. Now we are on to combining those local ways into a more world society. That could get a little more complex, if they choose to show that. It would seem at some point with different local societies, they would have to form some sort of representative government.

2. Why have Carol and Morgan persist with the pacifist bs, I was glad they were on-screen because they are good actors, but why show them taking their cards off the table when everyone else anti's in? Seems really obvious dumb inevitable setup of a flip-flop in aforementioned clusterfuk episode to come next half-season.

Well we already know Morgan's back story of why he is somewhat a pacifist. Although we've seen he will kill to protect if he absolutely has to. He may not go to war, but undoubtedly the war will come to him.

Don't think Carol is so much a pacifist as just tired of killing people. Or having to kill people. Turning into a killer or a monster, or she feels she already has and just wants to try an gain some humanity back. If left alone, she really doesn't have to deal with that. But again undoubtedly the war will come to her.

3. The Rosita scene is correctly identified as most suspension of disbelief unraveling. I thought maybe Negan blocked the bullet with his bat like Wonder Woman. Then I called BS on Negan immediately examining the bullet and identifying as homemade and making a big deal - what about WHERE DID YOU GET THE GUN?! Lastly if you are going to have your bad arse military chick miss from close range when aiming right at someone you can't end the scene by having someone else magically whirl around in a circle and shoot someone dead in the eye.

Well again like I said above, because TV (or movies). See Storm Troopers for example.

4. Negan scratched on his last shot

Yea, I was hoping to see if he would just pull out the cue ball and continue with his turn. You know, Negan Rules.

 

[meyers7]

Holy cow you are not kidding. That whole half-season was just flat out meh. I loved Negan in the comic books but it really doesn't translate well to TV.

This is all I could think about during the nodding scene:

I suppose they could have touched their noses.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Forgot one. Why did Spencer persist with the pitch to Negan and undermining Rick after they brought the pool table into the middle of the street and everyone came to watch? I mean he just sold the 'long-game' to Rosita then pivots to go for broke and sell out Rick with lots of Rick's people within earshot not 5 minutes later? You can't go from talking about months, maybe years of relationship building to trying a coup within 10 minutes.
All they needed to do is have Spencer say to Rosita 'someone needs to get closer to Negan and work the relationship from the inside, Rick isn't doing that so I'm going to try' and the scene is setup much better. AND without the months years comment Spencer maintains consistency with constantly bad-mouthing Rick. The Rosita scene undid Spencer's anger mixed with resolve after cleaning up Rick's trashing of his house. They threw away Spencer's logic just to have someone be sad about his death when they'd spent forever making Spencer a jerk.

 

[meyers7]

Forgot one. Why did Spencer persist with the pitch to Negan and undermining Rick after they brought the pool table into the middle of the street and everyone came to watch? I mean he just sold the 'long-game' to Rosita then pivots to go for broke and sell out Rick with lots of Rick's people within earshot not 5 minutes later? You can't go from talking about months, maybe years of relationship building to trying a coup within 10 minutes.
All they needed to do is have Spencer say to Rosita 'someone needs to get closer to Negan and work the relationship from the inside, Rick isn't doing that so I'm going to try' and the scene is setup much better. AND without the months years comment Spencer maintains consistency with constantly bad-mouthing Rick. The Rosita scene undid Spencer's anger mixed with resolve after cleaning up Rick's trashing of his house. They threw away Spencer's logic just to have someone be sad about his death when they'd spent forever making Spencer a jerk.

Well the main reason is, it's straight out of the comics, guts and all. I assume they thought it was a cool death in the comics and would look cool on screen. Gave Nicotero something to do. He directed the first 2 episodes this season, but nothing since.

But from a apologetic point of view, hmmm. Maybe Spencer thought it was going better, much better, than he expected. Negan was playing pool with him. Instead of taking weeks, months, this was working pretty well now. And with Rick gone now....why not take advantage (before, as he had said, Rick screwed it up)?? Also, quite possibly, others in Alexandria who were not in Rick's Gang, might be thinking the same thing. Ever since Rick came, stuff has pretty much went to hell. Possibly quite a few of them blame him for attacking the Saviors first, which in their mind started all this. So with a group around, he thought he could show his leadership abilities and get anointed by Negan in front of them. ???

IDK, WAG.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Well the main reason is, it's straight out of the comics, guts and all. I assume they thought it was a cool death in the comics and would look cool on screen. Gave Nicotero something to do. He directed the first 2 episodes this season, but nothing since.

That makes sense as main reason. They are tethered to this north star of the comics and what's on the TV isn't consistent. Its not unusual to know story end-points and then work on how to get to them, but this show is so locked into exact scenes that if there are inconsistencies or omissions getting to the payoff scene they are ignored. We knew Spencer was gutless and out for himself, but then they spent time on just Spencer's heavy-handed criticism of Rick. Even so you'd think Spencer would learn when the Preacher walks out on him that his persuasive leadership needs work. We would have benefitted from Spencer smooth talking some of his old town-folk (instead of Rosita scene) to convince us he'd have the arrogance to pitch to Negan.

 

[meyers7]

That makes sense as main reason. They are tethered to this north star of the comics and what's on the TV isn't consistent. Its not unusual to know story end-points and then work on how to get to them, but this show is so locked into exact scenes that if there are inconsistencies or omissions getting to the payoff scene they are ignored. We knew Spencer was gutless and out for himself, but then they spent time on just Spencer's heavy-handed criticism of Rick. Even so you'd think Spencer would learn when the Preacher walks out on him that his persuasive leadership needs work. We would have benefitted from Spencer smooth talking some of his old town-folk (instead of Rosita scene) to convince us he'd have the arrogance to pitch to Negan.

Agree. Maybe they did a scene like that, but it didn't make the final cut??? Needed more room for commercials?? On the other hand I don't know that Spencer was really doing it to help the Alexandrians, more doing it to help himself. Regain some of his lost power.

As to being tethered to the comics, yea they are. I haven't read them, so... I could go either way. A lot of the comic watchers, really like to see the "iconic" (for a better word??) scenes played out. So I think they do a lot for them. Probably half the audience are comic watchers. You have Kirkman (the comic creator) still very involved and Gimple (the showrunner) was supposedly a huge comic fan. So, it's probably going to stay pretty close to the comics. At least some of the story lines, not necessarily it seems the characters. They seem to mix some of the story lines and characters. Like, this happens in the comics to X, but in the Series they'll have it happen to Y. But Spencer getting gutted by Negan for trying to throw Rick under the bus was straight out of the comics.

 

[Dogdeacon]

A lot of the comic watchers, really like to see the "iconic" (for a better word??) scenes played out. So I think they do a lot for them. Probably half the audience are comic watchers.

I thought this too, but recently heard on a podcast that typical comic book sales are in the 100's of thousands not millions. And quick looks shows vol 1 walking dead lifetime sales around 500K. Maybe they are traded & read some multiple of sales but it still pales in comparison to TV viewers. I think they (Kirkman et all) are beholden to some bizarre comic purity ethos despite the fact that the TV show is by far the money maker and story that works for TV should trump.

 

[meyers7]

I thought this too, but recently heard on a podcast that typical comic book sales are in the 100's of thousands not millions. And quick looks shows vol 1 walking dead lifetime sales around 500K. Maybe they are traded & read some multiple of sales but it still pales in comparison to TV viewers. I think they (Kirkman et all) are beholden to some bizarre comic purity ethos despite the fact that the TV show is by far the money maker and story that works for TV should trump.

Hmmm, hadn't really looked into the numbers, just assumed from reading stuff online.

 

[meyers7]

Interesting take on Negan.



This guy also called Trump beating Clinton last May.

 

[Chuck]

I struggled with this ha'season to the point where I almost threw in the towel last week. I've said it before, but I think the Negan character is just lazy writing. He had potential, but his following doesn't make sense. He's a to too many tough people that would take him out at some point.

I think the writers (of the show and I guess the comic as well), have a more difficult job as communities develop. I can overlook the physical inconsistencies (like Lucille not shattering), but why Rosita didn't a badarse like Rosita get much closer to Negan before shooting? And why did Carl shoot everyone with the automatic and then not shoot Negan immediately? Very frustrating. I also think it's much harder to write about humanity redeveloping communities than it was when everyone was hunting and gathering and avoiding zombies and other gangs. I'm not sure this group of writers are up to that task.

That being said, I still enjoy the show. Most people seem happier with the final episode so hopefully they're heading in the right direction.

 

[meyers7]

I struggled with this ha'season to the point where I almost threw in the towel last week. I've said it before, but I think the Negan character is just lazy writing. He had potential, but his following doesn't make sense. He's a to too many tough people that would take him out at some point.

See the video I posted above. Kind of relates him to Manson.

I think the writers (of the show and I guess the comic as well), have a more difficult job as communities develop. I can overlook the physical inconsistencies (like Lucille not shattering), but why Rosita didn't a badarse like Rosita get much closer to Negan before shooting? And why did Carl shoot everyone with the automatic and then not shoot Negan immediately? Very frustrating. I also think it's much harder to write about humanity redeveloping communities than it was when everyone was hunting and gathering and avoiding zombies and other gangs. I'm not sure this group of writers are up to that task.

Can't help you with the other stuff, but IMO if Rosita starts walking toward him with the gun out, the Saviors will shoot her down. Or I'd assume they would. (Can't explain why they didn't immediately shoot her after she fired though???? - guess they figured the threat was over??? - that part makes less sense than your question) If she starts walking toward him before pulling the gun, well he usually doesn't allow that, he invades their space. Also if she got too close, she loses the distance to actually pull the gun before he smacks her with Lucille. Also I don't think she planned to do it at that moment, was probably looking for a better opportunity. But she got caught up in the moment and just went for it. Yea I can see why she just pulled it and fired. Again, she missed, because TV.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree 1000% that the major hole with Rosita is if Negan has ANY protection you have to shoot her and not assume she only has 1 bullet b/c the audience & writers know she only has one bullet. They make versions of that mistake constantly.

I watched 2 minutes of that video & got annoyed with its premise. You can't assume a leadership style based on how actors are directed to react towards someone that is acting. I understand the direction is a little more than 'be intimidating' but you cannot ascribe psychological affects based on observing two people pretending things.

On the plus side I think they told the infamous Governor to be intimidating but to also be insecure and insane which totally undermined any attempt at intimidation from the viewers perspective.

 

[Fishy]

Somehow, he divined that she only had one bullet. And then, while examining a bog standard bullet casing, he determines it is a homemade bullet.

They really need to tighten s--- up because the ratings are suffering to the point where there was an article yesterday about AMC failing to meet guarantees. That will end the series.

 

[Deepster]

Somehow, he divined that she only had one bullet. And then, while examining a bog standard bullet casing, he determines it is a homemade bullet.

They really need to tighten s--- up because the ratings are suffering to the point where there was an article yesterday about AMC failing to meet guarantees. That will end the series.

Let's pick the Meyers reply to this one.

1) It's still the highest rated cable show, by far.
2) Maybe you just don't understand the intricacies of the show. It's a very deep show with levels you probably just don't get.
3) The bullet is a huge part of the comics.

 

[meyers7]

I watched 2 minutes of that video & got annoyed with its premise. You can't assume a leadership style based on how actors are directed to react towards someone that is acting. I understand the direction is a little more than 'be intimidating' but you cannot ascribe psychological affects based on observing two people pretending things.

Well it goes to show they writers are writing it to be that way. They are writing it, acting it, the way some real life people (e.g. Manson) are.

And certain people's complaints that it is not believable because it would never happen in "real life" don't necessarily hold water. Because it does.

Some of the guys other videos are pretty interesting too. Especially about Trump. But then I like psychological stuff anyway.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I agree with most of you, except that missing at say 12-15 feet when shooting at a live target under time pressure (she couldn't slowly take aim) is certainly possible, even likely. Especially if she was dumb enough to shoot at his head instead of center mass.

On Carol, she's done it once before and saved the crew, but does anyone else sense a Willis Reed moment? Maybe in conjunction with Morgan? The two retired fighters turned pacifists finally join in later and turn the tide of battle. I can see it coming a mile away.

I'm glad we finally got to the point where everyone, except a few at the Kingdom who are coming next, know that they can't just Neville Chamberlain their way out of this mess. Evil must be fought, it's the way things are.

 

[meyers7]

Let's pick the Meyers reply to this one.

No need to respond, not really anything to respond to. (but I'll respond to yours)

1) It's still the highest rated cable show, by far.

True. But they are slipping.

2) Maybe you just don't understand the intricacies of the show. It's a very deep show with levels you probably just don't get.

Well we've already established that. But that doesn't really pertain to anything Fishy said. ?????

3) The bullet is a huge part of the comics.

Don't think so, but I never read them, so....

I could be the impetus for some things in the Series though???? I could give you a couple ideas I have on what they could do with that, but....see your point #2. Wouldn't want you to think or anything like that.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree with most of you, except that missing at say 12-15 feet when shooting at a live target under time pressure (she couldn't slowly take aim) is certainly possible, even likely. Especially if she was dumb enough to shoot at his head instead of center mass.

On Carol, she's done it once before and saved the crew, but does anyone else sense a Willis Reed moment? Maybe in conjunction with Morgan? The two retired fighters turned pacifists finally join in later and turn the tide of battle. I can see it coming a mile away.

I'm glad we finally got to the point where everyone, except a few at the Kingdom who are coming next, know that they can't just Neville Chamberlain their way out of this mess. Evil must be fought, it's the way things are.

True - and we've got an entire Oscar winning movie, "Unforgiven" essentially about how hard it is to shoot someone. I guess its possible our apocalypse friends can be dead-eyed on Zombie kills but blanche when shooting real people. The problem is within the same scene Negan's minion wheels and dead-eye shoots someone dead-in-the-eye.
These are small problems within an episode like that where stuff happens and the pacing is good. But they have never been able to sustain that even in these mini-seasons.

Big picture there's a drumbeat of how there is no oasis, salvation or end of the plague. We know Rick & Co. will defeat Negan or any adversary with some token 'main character' losses. So the only compelling question for me is does Carl develop into some John Connor esque effective leader of the new world. It is really the only ongoing 'hook' they have so I'd get busy with that as part of Negan's demise.