The Walking Dead - Season 7

[meyers7]

Interesting take on Negan.



This guy also called Trump beating Clinton last May.

 

[Chuck]

I struggled with this ha'season to the point where I almost threw in the towel last week. I've said it before, but I think the Negan character is just lazy writing. He had potential, but his following doesn't make sense. He's a to too many tough people that would take him out at some point.

I think the writers (of the show and I guess the comic as well), have a more difficult job as communities develop. I can overlook the physical inconsistencies (like Lucille not shattering), but why Rosita didn't a badarse like Rosita get much closer to Negan before shooting? And why did Carl shoot everyone with the automatic and then not shoot Negan immediately? Very frustrating. I also think it's much harder to write about humanity redeveloping communities than it was when everyone was hunting and gathering and avoiding zombies and other gangs. I'm not sure this group of writers are up to that task.

That being said, I still enjoy the show. Most people seem happier with the final episode so hopefully they're heading in the right direction.

 

[meyers7]

I struggled with this ha'season to the point where I almost threw in the towel last week. I've said it before, but I think the Negan character is just lazy writing. He had potential, but his following doesn't make sense. He's a to too many tough people that would take him out at some point.

See the video I posted above. Kind of relates him to Manson.

I think the writers (of the show and I guess the comic as well), have a more difficult job as communities develop. I can overlook the physical inconsistencies (like Lucille not shattering), but why Rosita didn't a badarse like Rosita get much closer to Negan before shooting? And why did Carl shoot everyone with the automatic and then not shoot Negan immediately? Very frustrating. I also think it's much harder to write about humanity redeveloping communities than it was when everyone was hunting and gathering and avoiding zombies and other gangs. I'm not sure this group of writers are up to that task.

Can't help you with the other stuff, but IMO if Rosita starts walking toward him with the gun out, the Saviors will shoot her down. Or I'd assume they would. (Can't explain why they didn't immediately shoot her after she fired though???? - guess they figured the threat was over??? - that part makes less sense than your question) If she starts walking toward him before pulling the gun, well he usually doesn't allow that, he invades their space. Also if she got too close, she loses the distance to actually pull the gun before he smacks her with Lucille. Also I don't think she planned to do it at that moment, was probably looking for a better opportunity. But she got caught up in the moment and just went for it. Yea I can see why she just pulled it and fired. Again, she missed, because TV.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree 1000% that the major hole with Rosita is if Negan has ANY protection you have to shoot her and not assume she only has 1 bullet b/c the audience & writers know she only has one bullet. They make versions of that mistake constantly.

I watched 2 minutes of that video & got annoyed with its premise. You can't assume a leadership style based on how actors are directed to react towards someone that is acting. I understand the direction is a little more than 'be intimidating' but you cannot ascribe psychological affects based on observing two people pretending things.

On the plus side I think they told the infamous Governor to be intimidating but to also be insecure and insane which totally undermined any attempt at intimidation from the viewers perspective.

 

[Fishy]

Somehow, he divined that she only had one bullet. And then, while examining a bog standard bullet casing, he determines it is a homemade bullet.

They really need to tighten s--- up because the ratings are suffering to the point where there was an article yesterday about AMC failing to meet guarantees. That will end the series.

 

[Deepster]

Somehow, he divined that she only had one bullet. And then, while examining a bog standard bullet casing, he determines it is a homemade bullet.

They really need to tighten s--- up because the ratings are suffering to the point where there was an article yesterday about AMC failing to meet guarantees. That will end the series.

Let's pick the Meyers reply to this one.

1) It's still the highest rated cable show, by far.
2) Maybe you just don't understand the intricacies of the show. It's a very deep show with levels you probably just don't get.
3) The bullet is a huge part of the comics.

 

[meyers7]

I watched 2 minutes of that video & got annoyed with its premise. You can't assume a leadership style based on how actors are directed to react towards someone that is acting. I understand the direction is a little more than 'be intimidating' but you cannot ascribe psychological affects based on observing two people pretending things.

Well it goes to show they writers are writing it to be that way. They are writing it, acting it, the way some real life people (e.g. Manson) are.

And certain people's complaints that it is not believable because it would never happen in "real life" don't necessarily hold water. Because it does.

Some of the guys other videos are pretty interesting too. Especially about Trump. But then I like psychological stuff anyway.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I agree with most of you, except that missing at say 12-15 feet when shooting at a live target under time pressure (she couldn't slowly take aim) is certainly possible, even likely. Especially if she was dumb enough to shoot at his head instead of center mass.

On Carol, she's done it once before and saved the crew, but does anyone else sense a Willis Reed moment? Maybe in conjunction with Morgan? The two retired fighters turned pacifists finally join in later and turn the tide of battle. I can see it coming a mile away.

I'm glad we finally got to the point where everyone, except a few at the Kingdom who are coming next, know that they can't just Neville Chamberlain their way out of this mess. Evil must be fought, it's the way things are.

 

[meyers7]

Let's pick the Meyers reply to this one.

No need to respond, not really anything to respond to. (but I'll respond to yours)

1) It's still the highest rated cable show, by far.

True. But they are slipping.

2) Maybe you just don't understand the intricacies of the show. It's a very deep show with levels you probably just don't get.

Well we've already established that. But that doesn't really pertain to anything Fishy said. ?????

3) The bullet is a huge part of the comics.

Don't think so, but I never read them, so....

I could be the impetus for some things in the Series though???? I could give you a couple ideas I have on what they could do with that, but....see your point #2. Wouldn't want you to think or anything like that.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I agree with most of you, except that missing at say 12-15 feet when shooting at a live target under time pressure (she couldn't slowly take aim) is certainly possible, even likely. Especially if she was dumb enough to shoot at his head instead of center mass.

On Carol, she's done it once before and saved the crew, but does anyone else sense a Willis Reed moment? Maybe in conjunction with Morgan? The two retired fighters turned pacifists finally join in later and turn the tide of battle. I can see it coming a mile away.

I'm glad we finally got to the point where everyone, except a few at the Kingdom who are coming next, know that they can't just Neville Chamberlain their way out of this mess. Evil must be fought, it's the way things are.

True - and we've got an entire Oscar winning movie, "Unforgiven" essentially about how hard it is to shoot someone. I guess its possible our apocalypse friends can be dead-eyed on Zombie kills but blanche when shooting real people. The problem is within the same scene Negan's minion wheels and dead-eye shoots someone dead-in-the-eye.
These are small problems within an episode like that where stuff happens and the pacing is good. But they have never been able to sustain that even in these mini-seasons.

Big picture there's a drumbeat of how there is no oasis, salvation or end of the plague. We know Rick & Co. will defeat Negan or any adversary with some token 'main character' losses. So the only compelling question for me is does Carl develop into some John Connor esque effective leader of the new world. It is really the only ongoing 'hook' they have so I'd get busy with that as part of Negan's demise.

 

[StoweD210]

Again I really liked the episode, but its just fun to do this Meyers-bringgs show rationalizations tests.
1. So your society-building is Maggie takes over Hilltop b/c she can drive a tractor and one guy at Kingdom lost his family so knows a dictator must eventually be stopped? Not exactly high complexity sociological interaction, or did I MISS something again?
2. Why have Carol and Morgan persist with the pacifist bs, I was glad they were on-screen because they are good actors, but why show them taking their cards off the table when everyone else anti's in? Seems really obvious dumb inevitable setup of a flip-flop in aforementioned clusterfuk episode to come next half-season.
3. The Rosita scene is correctly identified as most suspension of disbelief unraveling. I thought maybe Negan blocked the bullet with his bat like Wonder Woman. Then I called BS on Negan immediately examining the bullet and identifying as homemade and making a big deal - what about WHERE DID YOU GET THE GUN?! Lastly if you are going to have your bad arse military chick miss from close range when aiming right at someone you can't end the scene by having someone else magically whirl around in a circle and shoot someone dead in the eye.
4. Negan scratched on his last shot

What I don't think helped that scene was the guy giving the speech. He's one of Ezekiel's top guys and he can take a few punches, but we don't know much beyond that. It made his "It's gonna be your fault" claim sound kind of hollow. I guess that was the point of him breaking down in his secret trailer of supplies: He was upset with himself over whatever he was hoarding and why. Still, Carol and Morgan are only two people and they haven't been in touch with Alexandria since before the encounter with Negan. Why the guilt trip on them?

Regarding Negan's scratch, I thought was going to be the undoing of Spencer. He would point that out, then realize he should have kept his mouth shut. Negan could start with "We're playing a friendly game and you want to jump in with your rules..." then go into his speech that ends with him killing Spencer.

 

[meyers7]

What I don't think helped that scene was the guy giving the speech. He's one of Ezekiel's top guys and he can take a few punches, but we don't know much beyond that. It made his "It's gonna be your fault" claim sound kind of hollow. I guess that was the point of him breaking down in his secret trailer of supplies: He was upset with himself over whatever he was hoarding and why. Still, Carol and Morgan are only two people and they haven't been in touch with Alexandria since before the encounter with Negan. Why the guilt trip on them?

Agree there. We don't really know anything (yet anyway) about this guy, other than he is Ezekiel's muscle. Hopefully we'll get a little more on him, or what's up with that trailer of his. ???

 

[intlzncster]

The 'everyone nodding at each other in solemn agreement' scene at the end was painful.

Absolutely my favorite part of the episode. Truly laugh out loud comedic gold. Reminded me of the end of an episode of the A-Team or something. Only thing missing was a 'pointing guy'.

Probably not what they were going for, but whatever.

 

[StoweD210]

Absolutely my favorite part of the episode. Truly laugh out loud comedic gold. Reminded me of the end of an episode of the A-Team or something. Only thing missing was a 'pointing guy'.

Probably not what they were going for, but whatever.

They easily could have done that. This guy was right there:

Maybe it will show up in an outtake or blooper reel.

 

[intlzncster]

What I don't think helped that scene was the guy giving the speech. He's one of Ezekiel's top guys and he can take a few punches, but we don't know much beyond that. It made his "It's gonna be your fault" claim sound kind of hollow.

Not to mention that the scene itself was horribly over-acted by that dude.

 

[StoweD210]

I was thinking about the final scene with Rick's group coming together and nodding in agreement. It occurred to me that they are going to try to solve the same problem (remove/drive out/kill Negan) as before, except the events of the first half of the season put them at an even bigger disadvantage to do this than when they first tried.

The one advantage they have now is that they know more about Negan and the size and capabilities of the Saviors. On the negative side, Rick's group is smaller, they've lost all their guns and they haven't made any new allies. Nobody seems concerned that they've tried this before, when they were in a better position to succeed, and failed. They are going to join forces with the Kingdom and maybe even the fisherwomen in the future, but Rick doesn't even know about those groups yet.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I was thinking about the final scene with Rick's group coming together and nodding in agreement. It occurred to me that they are going to try to solve the same problem (remove/drive out/kill Negan) as before, except the events of the first half of the season put them at an even bigger disadvantage to do this than when they first tried.

The one advantage they have now is that they know more about Negan and the size and capabilities of the Saviors. On the negative side, Rick's group is smaller, they've lost all their guns and they haven't made any new allies. Nobody seems concerned that they've tried this before, when they were in a better position to succeed, and failed. They are going to join forces with the Kingdom and maybe even the fisherwomen in the future, but Rick doesn't even know about those groups yet.

I think they know this is a long range plan. Since they have handicapped themselves, they can't solve it now. What I got from that scene was that everyone is now on board. We can pretend to go along, but we can't believe that we can just go along with Negan. So they will stash weapons they find. They will seek allies. They will do reconnaissance. Darryl will obviously need to be hidden somewhere. There will be protocols in place to hide the baby when the Saviors come.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I think they know this is a long range plan. Since they have handicapped themselves, they can't solve it now. What I got from that scene was that everyone is now on board. We can pretend to go along, but we can't believe that we can just go along with Negan. So they will stash weapons they find. They will seek allies. They will do reconnaissance. Darryl will obviously need to be hidden somewhere. There will be protocols in place to hide the baby when the Saviors come.

That's all stuff they should do, but this show is notoriously bad at any long-game moves so it will be very interesting to see if they can manage 1hr episode stories while showing a big picture effort.
At this point they need to hide Maggie and Darryl (hiding/not showing a baby is just good apocalypse & TV protocol) lots of complications of how to do that without necessitating Negan just slaughtering everyone - I suspect only will continue to be its a TV show about Rick & Carl.