The Walking Dead, Season 7 Part Deux

[Dogdeacon]

Yawnfest. Only 'new' or unpredictable thing that happened was reveal that Negan knows a plot afoot. Otherwise every part of that episode telegraphed heavy handedly in prior epis. We did see cast members together and they tried to do THREE plots albeit it all forget-able. They could have at least given us pleasure of Daryl landing one punch before being held back.
Synopsis if you missed it:
A Plot: Get guns, swamp zombies are cool, lesbians can fight
B Plot: Sasha captured don't even show how or what she accomplished in raid. Negan still clean-shaven & talking in sing-song staccato. Despite nonstop dissatisfaction, rule violations and recruiting former adversaries its a formidable army.
C Plot: Maggie protects vegetable plants from frost and finds a baby blueberry bush = formidable leader, better kill her.

 

[Dove]

Yawnfest. Only 'new' or unpredictable thing that happened was reveal that Negan knows a plot afoot. Otherwise every part of that episode telegraphed heavy handedly in prior epis. We did see cast members together and they tried to do THREE plots albeit it all forget-able. They could have at least given us pleasure of Daryl landing one punch before being held back.
Synopsis if you missed it:
A Plot: Get guns, swamp zombies are cool, lesbians can fight
B Plot: Sasha captured don't even show how or what she accomplished in raid. Negan still clean-shaven & talking in sing-song staccato. Despite nonstop dissatisfaction, rule violations and recruiting former adversaries its a formidable army.
C Plot: Maggie protects vegetable plants from frost and finds a baby blueberry bush = formidable leader, better kill her.

They were ocean zombies.

 

[storrsroars]

Yawnfest. Only 'new' or unpredictable thing that happened was reveal that Negan knows a plot afoot. Otherwise every part of that episode telegraphed heavy handedly in prior epis. We did see cast members together and they tried to do THREE plots albeit it all forget-able. They could have at least given us pleasure of Daryl landing one punch before being held back.
Synopsis if you missed it:
A Plot: Get guns, swamp zombies are cool, lesbians can fight
B Plot: Sasha captured don't even show how or what she accomplished in raid. Negan still clean-shaven & talking in sing-song staccato. Despite nonstop dissatisfaction, rule violations and recruiting former adversaries its a formidable army.
C Plot: Maggie protects vegetable plants from frost and finds a baby blueberry bush = formidable leader, better kill her.

You forgot D Plot: Gregory discovers tequila.

 

[meyers7]

You forgot D Plot: Gregory discovers tequila.

He doesn't seem long for this (that) world.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I enjoyed the Rick & Michonne buddy episode & despite flaws the cantaloupe caper entertained, regardless plot-wise the half-season is a waste. We ended last mini-season with Rick on 20 yd line deciding to fight. 7 runs up the middle later its somehow still first down.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I thought the ocean zombies looked a little like the pirates on Davy Jones' crew.

Aside from getting the guns, and showing that Sasha was captured, we did get a peak at how Negan operates. He identifies people with talents, and is willing to sacrifice his rabble to prove to them that he values them. He basically killed a guy to try to persuade Sasha to join up.

I'm sensing that we will see some more war preparation, and maybe some counter-measures from Negan, culminating in the war "starting" in the final episode of the season. Negan knowing something is afoot is big news. Rick, Hilltop and the Kingdom are thinking about offense. All of them are extremely vulnerable (and unable to help each other) if attacked.

 

[meyers7]

I thought the ocean zombies looked a little like the pirates on Davy Jones' crew.

Agree, I was looking for Will Turner's father.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Aside from getting the guns, and showing that Sasha was captured, we did get a peak at how Negan operates. He identifies people with talents, and is willing to sacrifice his rabble to prove to them that he values them. He basically killed a guy to try to persuade Sasha to join up.

So Negan's external and internal management style is kill people brutally. I see this less as convincing leadership genius and more as TV gore mongering. I buy the way Negan got weak-minded Eugene on his side, but cuckolding your #2, killing your Dr's brother and brutally murdering random people to inspire fealty and obedience isn't convincing of a strong organization or leader. The waste o' time sublots of someone new trying to assassinate Negan every week (queue Meyers saying these are failing not b/c they are dimwitted non-plans but b/c he's a brilliant leader) aren't helping either.

 

[meyers7]

(queue Meyers saying these are failing not b/c they are dimwitted non-plans but b/c he's a brilliant leader) aren't helping either.

No, the assassination plans have been pretty lacking in complexity. Pretty much just raw emotion/blind rage. Doomed to fail. Besides the fact we know nobodies ever going to "assassinate" him. If he dies it will be in some kind of glorious fight and not by some minor character. (the law of TV shows)

Never said Negan was a brilliant leader. He is though, a pretty good manipulator. The way he played Sasha was pretty well done. Either allow herself to get eaten or join the Saviors (or try to kill him). Then as soon as she saved herself, he moved the goalposts on what it meant to join the Saviors for her. And immediately went to "I'm gonna use you against your friends." Which puts her in an even worse dilemma.

What I thought she should have done was cut the guy's (attempted rapist's) head off and stick it in the corner. Then she wouldn't have chosen any of Negan's options. That would have put Negan off balance, instead of her.

 

[Dogdeacon]

That's fair on assissine [sic combo of assassination and rear end] attempts, but they weren't blind rage they were plot filler. I agree though on Sasha that moving the goalposts was good, if that (phased acceptance, I'm using you against your friends) was the initial offer she probably offs herself and comes to the fake realization she had with Eugene immediately.

Of course this is part of the dumb flaw in her plan exacerbated by not showing her capture, that HAS to be a suicide mission. The fact that she tell us this via the Eugene plea is bad TV, they had to show Sasha trying to kill or be killed but being tripped up. But they are too lazy to do that and now via dumb motivation (aka rage), poor unseen execution they get the insert her where needed to make battle #1 of the coming 'war' plot go and some future payoff of inside angle/morally vexing circumstance of killing/betraying friends. Unless they have Sasha kill Rosita (would be cruel brutal irony), please just take the pill and save us the time.

 

[meyers7]

That's fair on assissine [sic combo of assassination and rear end] attempts, but they weren't blind rage they were plot filler.

Well blind rage from the character perspective. They may end up being plot fillers, but I think they were meant as plot diversions. To get the audience thinking "with all these assassination attempts, who the hell is gonna kill this guy?"

 

[Huskyforlife]

What a pathetic excuse for a finale. They couldn't do anything bold, didn't kill anyone important off. How the does someone not shoot negan and jadis during that scrum? Rick talking smack to negan right before everyone saves his a was pretty unbelievable as well, why wouldn't negan kill him on the spot for threatening him? Last time rick went through hell just for looking defiantly at negan. Rosita shot point blank with a machine gun, somehow survives. Michonne hanging off a balcony, taken a heavy beating, still somehow, off camera of course, throws the other girl off the ledge. That was a lot of noise too, odd not one walker showed up.

 

[Huskyforlife]

As for the positives.

Great acting on everyone's part.
Shiva jumping in suddenly was a nice touch.
Action scenes are always fun.
Sasha's sacrifice was a smart way to start the madness.
Savage Morgan is back.

 

[Dove]

For entertainment I was into this show. Yeah, this thread will dissect it to death but overall it was decent. I liked the Sasha coffin ride. At first we thought she was in her dark cell. Then when Negan says she was in the coffin we knew she swallowed the pill. I just never remembered she would turn...was too into the action. Anyway, kinda cool when she popped out.

But as to dissecting...my wife thinks that little soldier was a message ("Didn't Know" from Dwight to Alexandria? I was like, "Yeah, but written on a little tin soldier?" (Here's where Meyers tells about how the soldier was last seen in the episode where Daryl first met Dwight and his wife in the woods).

My questions:

How did Dump Queen not get shot?
How did Rosita live?
How the freak did the Kingdom and Hilltop get inside the walls without detection? Perhaps the slidey door was open.
Negan getting away with the bird flying high in the air was funny stoopid.
No major players killed?
Negan's army looks 100x bigger than Alexandria. The Dumpster Divers are now on Negan's team. Do we see Girl Town suddenly appear? I assume The Kingdom still has a lot of people. And Hilltop may have about 20 left behind.
Was Dwight a plant? He did warn Alexandria and then suddenly he's attacking Alexandria. Wha?

 

[meyers7]

But as to dissecting...my wife thinks that little soldier was a message ("Didn't Know" from Dwight to Alexandria? I was like, "Yeah, but written on a little tin soldier?" (Here's where Meyers tells about how the soldier was last seen in the episode where Daryl first met Dwight and his wife in the woods).

I had forgotten about that. Yea, he gave one to Daryl for saving the insulin.

How did Dump Queen not get shot?

Was thinking the same thing. Why didn't one of the Alexandrians just shoot her while she was standing there?? To save Rick??

How did Rosita live?

Sasha died. You only get one.

How the freak did the Kingdom and Hilltop get inside the walls without detection? Perhaps the slidey door was open.

Well yea I think the gate was open, but you'd think the Saviors outside the gate could have held them off. ??? On the other hand Hilltop had Enid, who used to sneak in and out of Alexandria all the time. So she probably knew other ways in. And as for the Kingdom, well they had Carol, she's always sneaky.

Mostly just typical TV/movie fair, the cavalry always shows up from out of nowhere.

No major players killed?

Well Sasha, but yea. I think they are trying (trying) to get away from the obvious season finale/major character dies. Trying to do it differently.

Negan's army looks 100x bigger than Alexandria. The Dumpster Divers are now on Negan's team. Do we see Girl Town suddenly appear? I assume The Kingdom still has a lot of people. And Hilltop may have about 20 left behind.

Looks like. Plus lots of outposts still. The "War" could take awhile.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For entertainment I was into this show. Yeah, this thread will dissect it to death but overall it was decent. I liked the Sasha coffin ride. At first we thought she was in her dark cell. Then when Negan says she was in the coffin we knew she swallowed the pill. I just never remembered she would turn...was too into the action. Anyway, kinda cool when she popped out.

But as to dissecting...my wife thinks that little soldier was a message ("Didn't Know" from Dwight to Alexandria? I was like, "Yeah, but written on a little tin soldier?" (Here's where Meyers tells about how the soldier was last seen in the episode where Daryl first met Dwight and his wife in the woods).

My questions:

How did Dump Queen not get shot?
How did Rosita live?
How the freak did the Kingdom and Hilltop get inside the walls without detection? Perhaps the slidey door was open.
Negan getting away with the bird flying high in the air was funny stoopid.
No major players killed?
Negan's army looks 100x bigger than Alexandria. The Dumpster Divers are now on Negan's team. Do we see Girl Town suddenly appear? I assume The Kingdom still has a lot of people. And Hilltop may have about 20 left behind.
Was Dwight a plant? He did warn Alexandria and then suddenly he's attacking Alexandria. Wha?

Despite the various plot holes, I thought it was pretty good.

• Sasha turning indeed caught me a bit off guard. That was clever. The tiger coming in to save Carl was cool.
• The little soldier was definitely a message from Dwight to Daryl, and I think Daryl believes him. So the good guys have a high level mole in the Negan forces. Dwight did do as he said, and slowed down Negan. I doubt he shot anyone, and probably just fired at empty spaces.
• The gate was open, and the Negan forces charged inside once the shooting started.

Alexandria is certainly out manned, but The Kingdom and Hilltop do have more people. Also, Alexandria just picked up quite a lot of weaponry from the dead Negan forces. The real interesting thing will be whether the "good" guys stay spread out at three locations. If they do, they are dead. If they take everything they have and go to the most defensible location (Alexandria or Kingdom) they have a chance. Plus, Negan's folks aren't getting their food and supplied anymore. I also think ambush tactics would be effective, like a barrage of moltov cocktails at night could easily take out many Negan vehicles and give them walker problems.

 

[Dove]

Why didn't Tiger just jump Negan?

 

[meyers7]

Why didn't Tiger just jump Negan?

Tigers do what they want. Negan's kinda skinny.

Kinda wondered why someone didn't shoot the tiger.

 

[Chuck]

The show is what it is... entertainment. There were good parts and bad with the season and the finale.

On the whole, I think we're in a good place. I hated watching Alexandria (and Hilltop, the Kingdom, etc.) be so subservient to the Saviors, but it makes sense. Each probably thought they were somewhat alone until they got crushed by the Saviors. Once under their thumb, it takes some time to get emboldened. I think "war" can be more interesting and more satisfying to watch, without being easy for the "good guys."

They gave sooo many hints about the garbage people that it's pretty hard to imagine anyone was surprised. I mentioned a few pages back that I thought the "we take, we don't bother" had an ominous meaning. Then when the woman with Michonne said "I'll go" (to the better spot) and said "we win" it was just hitting you in the head. I'm okay with that though. Just seemed dumb that Rick was so trusting. I'm assuming they'll switch sides again for a better deal. Hopefully, Alexandria and the rest dispose of them (or at least their weapons) after that regardless of their help.

I think we'll see some interesting stuff with Eugene. I like that they were about to blow him up. Would've pissed me off if Alexandria refused to kill him. I also think the Dwight story line will be interesting. And I'm sure there will be a moment when things are settled eventually that Daryl has an arrow to Dwight's head. Will he kill him, or not?

Question: Did I miss something with Maggie? Did she lose the baby? I look more pregnant than her. I thought I remember her showing a bit.

 

[Dove]

Question: Did I miss something with Maggie? Did she lose the baby? I look more pregnant than her. I thought I remember her showing a bit.

As I was looking at her skinny jeans my wife asked the same question..."where is the bump?"

Rick will never trust the Garbage Pail Kids again. Sure, he might use them. Then kill them. I wonder of he said, "Yeah, I'll lay with you" if that would have sealed the deal for them to help Alexandria? Probably not.

And this deal with Negan...12 became 10. What was that?

 

[meyers7]

They gave sooo many hints about the garbage people that it's pretty hard to imagine anyone was surprised. I mentioned a few pages back that I thought the "we take, we don't bother" had an ominous meaning. Then when the woman with Michonne said "I'll go" (to the better spot) and said "we win" it was just hitting you in the head. I'm okay with that though. Just seemed dumb that Rick was so trusting. I'm assuming they'll switch sides again for a better deal. Hopefully, Alexandria and the rest dispose of them (or at least their weapons) after that regardless of their help.

I'm thinking

 

[meyers7]

And this deal with Negan...12 became 10. What was that?

I think he said something after that "like good labor is hard to come by" or "not cheap". Something to that effect. I think he was going to give her (guess he still has to, though he may not now which could cause problems) 12/10 workers/slaves. That's my guess anyway.

 

[CTGoonie]

Is Sasha zombie really that more effective than the alive Sasha? All the dead version did was fall over Negan and kill one guy. Wouldn't she have been more useful alive and able to think?

 

[Huskyforlife]

Is Sasha zombie really that more effective than the alive Sasha? All the dead version did was fall over Negan and kill one guy. Wouldn't she have been more useful alive and able to think?

Good point

 

[intlzncster]

Is Sasha zombie really that more effective than the alive Sasha? All the dead version did was fall over Negan and kill one guy. Wouldn't she have been more useful alive and able to think?

Yeah, I was hoping she'd pop out with a knife. Knew she wouldn't, but I hoped for it anyway.