The OLine and the three Ws | Page 3 | The Boneyard
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The OLine and the three Ws

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My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.
 
Carl Spackler said:
THat's what I thought. I disagree. I think there is another plausible explanation consistent with everything that's happened. I think that Coach P had a meeting or several meetings with his coaching staff, probably both individually and as a group, after the regular season ended in December and did a full eval and criticique of the program. He evaluated everyone's strengths weaknesses, etc.

Coach P is the head guy, and in those meetings, I think he established what he wants his vision to be of where htis program is going to go and how its going to do it in the future, and that the biggest thing that needs a major overhaul in this program is the offensive side of the ball. I think that P looked at his staff, got everyone's input and fit Coach Foley to the TE position and Deleone to the OL, and it's a very good fit for both, in that we need TE's that both run and pass block 1-1 on a DE or LB, and run pass routes, and Coach F has coached both things well - and add the recruiting on - it's a great fit.

Coach Foley is a veteran football coach in New England and in the northeast. He's been recruiting and coaching up players to high level of competition everywhere he's been and in all aspects of offense from Holy Cross to Colgate to Harvard. Coach FOley was with Joe Restic for a year. Talk about understganding the recruiting landscape of the northeast? Coach Foley is invaluable, having recruited so long with an understanding of the landscape, and now recruiting for a 1-A program for a few years, and it shows, with the players he's brought in for the OL, and I expect the same for the TE position now.

I think that is a much more reasonable explanation for what has happened, than the scenario you have presented, and there's nothing that reflects so negatively about the move from OL to TE.

If having Coach Foley coachign the OL rather than TE's is some source of pride for you, then I understand your view. I prefer to see Coach Foley do the same thing with the TE's that he's done with OL at UConn recruiting and development wise, and I suspect that's exactly what Coach P wanted, and what Coach F is excited about doing.
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LMAO. You just wasted a page without in any way considering the article or what anyone said about it.

Seriously, do you not understand that it's o.k. to keep considering evidence of something after you've made your mind up?
 
UConndad6 said:
My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.
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One of the cardinal rules in scouting an offensive team and is to study the center. 99% of the time, the center will give away what's happening before it happens. In the past, when we made the move to 1-A football, the offensive schemes we used.....we hid nothing on offense and nothing was unpredictable to a defense, to the point that by the time your son was in his junior and senior years, when we ran trick plays, opposing defenses knew it because whatever we were doing was so different. That snapshot, I posted from 2010 homecoming game, in my opinion- you may find others that disagree :-) ....is a damn good representation of our entire offense in the edsall era in a single clip, and Petrus' head is where it all starts. We were bringing our offense to the table, and everyone we played knew what was coming. Edsall, and I"m sure you can probably attest, got his players motivated and proud to have that attitude. THere's nothign wrong with it, but you better have a full and deep stable of experienced and talented players at every position to make it work.

I think that the offensive linemen probably had their heads spinning out of control the first time they got into meetings with DeLeone. The concepts that he brings to offense are just so different from what we did before. But when you get it down, look out. THe offense can move all over a defense.

THe center, whoever it will be in 2012, is going to be a HUGE part of making our offense work, because how that guy plays the game, is going to be directly related to how well opposing defenses are going to be prepared for us.
 
Carl Spackler said:
P.S. Good luck to Kashif in reaching the next level.
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Thanks Carl. Kash has done all he can do to demonstrate to teams that he can be an asset as a WR/KR in the NFL. All we can do is wait and hope that one team was impressed.
 
UConndad6 said:
My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.
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As always... love the insight. Thanks.
 
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Carl Spackler said:
One of the cardinal rules in scouting an offensive team and is to study the center. 99% of the time, the center will give away what's happening before it happens. In the past, when we made the move to 1-A football, the offensive schemes we used.....we hid nothing on offense and nothing was unpredictable to a defense, to the point that by the time your son was in his junior and senior years, when we ran trick plays, opposing defenses knew it because whatever we were doing was so different. That snapshot, I posted from 2010 homecoming game, in my opinion- you may find others that disagree :) ....is a damn good representation of our entire offense in the edsall era in a single clip, and Petrus' head is where it all starts. We were bringing our offense to the table, and everyone we played knew what was coming. Edsall, and I"m sure you can probably attest, got his players motivated and proud to have that attitude. THere's nothign wrong with it, but you better have a full and deep stable of experienced and talented players at every position to make it work.

I think that the offensive linemen probably had their heads spinning out of control the first time they got into meetings with DeLeone. The concepts that he brings to offense are just so different from what we did before. But when you get it down, look out. THe offense can move all over a defense.

THe center, whoever it will be in 2012, is going to be a HUGE part of making our offense work, because how that guy plays the game, is going to be directly related to how well opposing defenses are going to be prepared for us.
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what did you mean on page two when you said this:
"This is the last thing I"m going to write. Promise."

I think you might have broken your promise.
 
Carl Spackler said:
Maybe if you feel up to it, you can take some of the readers through how you arrived at that six count to #13. I'm sure there are people out there that don't understand.

Got to have a thick skin though if you're going to try to talk football with some of the folks around here. ;-)
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Nah cu73etr, people genuinely do want to hear what you'd have to add, and have a good FB discussion. It's when someone comes across as a condescending blow hard with an over inflated sense of themselves and an incorrect belief that they're the only guy in the room with a correct answer that they need a thick skin.
 
Love talking O Line. Some random thoughts:

  • Coach Foley - How anyone can try and spin that he wasn't demoted is puzzling to me. And I will not blame him at all when he leaves next year. He is one of the finest O Line coaches in the nation. He will not lack suitors next year.
  • With that said, Coach P is the man that runs the ship, and he makes the decisions that he thinks will improve UCONN. He is doing it by putting Coach Deleone in there.
  • Mike Backer calls. It can be called by anyone, ideally it should be the qb, as he has the best vantage point. But many teams' centers do it as well.
  • Last years high sack totals were caused by some sub par play at the guard position and zero pocket presence by Johnny McEntee. There is a specific line protection for passes (i.e. inside protection, sprint out protection). When a qb panics and runs outside the pocket even though the left or right tackle is riding the defender around the qb, that sack is completely on the qb. It is very important IMO, for rbs and abs to know the protections and blocking schemes. It helps them perform their job better. It looked like Johnny had no idea. If a linebacker was flying in, he seemed to have no idea that the fullback or guard would pick him up. It caused panic, which caused him to stop looking downfield, which resulted in a sack.
  • Lack of continuity really hurt the line last year.
  • Lack of athleticism hurt Steve Greene in the pass game. Looked like he had cement shoes coming out of his stance pass blocking at times.
  • Kevin Friend is going to become the leader of the line, IMO. Smart, solid technique, just needs to get stronger.
  • If Jimmy Bennet can come back, that really helps the O Line.
 
The offensive schemes looked tremendously complex to me last season. Under HCRE we won games on the lines of scrimmage much more often than we lost them. It wasn't fancy and goodness knows the passing gome often struggled, but when it came time to control the ball we pushed folks around and Donald, or Dre or Todman had holes. Last season we did not do that. I will freely admit that I don't know enough football to comment on OL techniques, so to me it is quite possible that the new schemes being introduced last season were necessary to get ready for the future. I certainly hope so.

I also agree with bizlaw, this is P's decision to make and, frankly, he'll have a job if it works and will not if it fails. It's that simple. I know enough football to know that if you struggle at the offensive line of scrimmage you simply will not be successful.
 
businesslawyer said:
Look -- P has to be allowed to do it his way. And, on O, his way is letting DeLeone do it his way. That's the only way you can fairly judge him.

I think Foley was an outstanding OL coach, and I think it's a shame that he no longer is and that I fear we may lose him for it, but that is all secondary to the prior paragraph. You hire a coach, you give him the chance to do it his way. If Deleone thinks he can teach zone blocking better than Foley, and he has P's support, so be it.
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I thought the comments toward Foley were complimentary, yet you seem to be trying to see something else in them. GD is trying to install a pro-type offense, and it starts at the oline. I'm looking forward to the future because I think the foundation is being set for better players to want to be a part of the professional quality of coaching here.
 
Maybe Greg Schiano is a a good coach and will do well in TB. I wish him the best. But honestly, who would you rather have coach Schiano or Bill Parcells. It's a no brainier.

I like Foley and he has done very well coaching our lines, but we have a seasoned coach, an NFL coach, who wants to install his offense and has been doing it for many years. Who would you rather have? I mean this is a no brainier and to waste all this band width as to why DeLeone and not Foley ------ good gracious.
 
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rich1122 said:
Maybe Greg Schiano is a a good coach and will do well in TB. I wish him the best. But honestly, who would you rather have coach Schiano or Bill Parcells. It's a no brainier.

I like Foley and he has done very well coaching our lines, but we have a seasoned coach, an NFL coach, who wants to install his offense and has been doing it for many years. Who would you rather have? I mean this is a no brainier and to waste all this band width as to why DeLeone and not Foley ------ good gracious.
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I disagree. I don't think DeLeone has accomplished as an OL coach what Foley did. What Foley did year after year with talent that no one else wanted for the most part was remarkable.

And if you think pro experience by itself makes you a better coach, there must be a lot of mediocre coaches who you think are better than Calhoun. Yeah, right.
 
businesslawyer said:
I disagree. I don't think DeLeone has accomplished as an OL coach what Foley did. What Foley did year after year with talent that no one else wanted for the most part was remarkable.

And if you think pro experience by itself makes you a better coach, there must be a lot of mediocre coaches who you think are better than Calhoun. Yeah, right.
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I agree to a certain extent, but P saw this as the best way for the team and to me it makes sense. Not a slight to Foley for sure.
 
rich1122 said:
I agree to a certain extent, but P saw this as the best way for the team and to me it makes sense. Not a slight to Foley for sure.
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I completely agree with your first point, and completely disagree with your second point. Coach P is the head coach, and he is ultimately judged on how the team performs. If he believes Coach Deleone is the best choice for the O Line, then he would be a fool not to make the switch,

But it is absolutely a slight on Coach Foley. He is being demoted, no matter what spin everyone is trying to put on it. We are going to lose him in 2013, I am convinced.
 
I don't know if calling this a slight on coach Foley is correct or not but the leadership absolutely wanted to go in a different direction (in philosophy, blocking schemes) from what was being done under the prior regime and after the past season felt that they would be better served with Deleone teaching what he wanted done than Foley (whose strengths were with a different system).

I will be stunned of Foley is here this time next season. It is a shame as he did very well here but things happen. I remember being disappointed when Coughlin took over as head coach for the Giants and let McNally (who was one of a few bright spots from the prior regime and ran blocking schemes very similar to what Foley runs) go. It took nearly two full seasons to rework the personnel and implement the new system but the Giants ended up with what was viewed by most as the best O-Line in football for a few seasons and was far better at pass blocking than they had been under McNally (not too much of an accomplishment) and was even better at run blocking than they had been (quite a feat).

As sad as I am to see the change (as I was always very impressed with Foley), I am also open minded enough to realize that this could work out for the best. We will need to bring in some very high quality recruits to get this to work at the level we want but this could help our offense tremendously in another year or two.
 
huskysupporter said:
I completely agree with your first point, and completely disagree with your second point. Coach P is the head coach, and he is ultimately judged on how the team performs. If he believes Coach Deleone is the best choice for the O Line, then he would be a fool not to make the switch,

But it is absolutely a slight on Coach Foley. He is being demoted, no matter what spin everyone is trying to put on it. We are going to lose him in 2013, I am convinced.
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This. Exactly.

I reallly don't understand this debate. It is P's call to make, but you can't piss on my boots and tell me it's raining
 
I think the debate is more focused around the word "slight". I'm guessing that this is a situation where, not unlike the Moorhead situation, Coach P has a different philosophy that he wants to use in his offensive scheme. I think the reason why he has kept Foley on the staff, rather than to remove him, is likely due to honoring his dedication to UConn after Edsall bolted (much like the Moorhead situation). Coach P probably wants Foley to land another job (1-AA head coach, etc.) rather than to get rid of him first, and will likely keep a position for him in the meantime (like TE's). That doesn't sound like a slight to me, and it certainly doesn't sound like pissing on a man's boots...
 
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I don't have a football background but I do have an extensive business background. In any situation where results matter more than feelings, as in entrepreneurial situations, employees have to be flexible -- especially the most talented and valuable employees. The brightest and best employees are often given lateral moves to expand their experience and prepare them for a larger role.

In this case, it seems the situation is fairly clear. Coach Foley, great coach though he undoubtedly is, lacked experience with the pro-style zone-blocking scheme, and didn't teach it well last year. The team needs to excel at that scheme, and adopting it will pay dividends in the future in helping O-linemen reach the pros (Bill Belichek has said how important it is to draft players with experience playing a similar system) which in turn will help recruiting. To be the best possible O-line coach, Foley needs to learn the scheme and how to teach it from someone with NFL experience. To be the best possible offensive coordinator at some future date, he will benefit from gaining experience with another position such as tight ends.

From DeLeone's point of view, I'm sure he would much rather focus on coordinator duties and leave O-line management to a position coach. Presumably he is taking the O-line for one year only, and will return the responsibility to Foley in a year after Foley has had a chance to learn from him how the zone scheme can best be taught.

We have the testimony of the O-linemen in Des Connor's piece that DeLeone's teaching is really helping them.

While it's possible that Foley took his move as a demotion, it's more likely that Pasqualoni, DeLeone, and Foley see it as a natural part of his personal career progression toward becoming a more complete coach, and a steppingstone toward greater responsibility and success. While the lateral move and the opportunity to witness how DeLeone teaches a zone blocking scheme will advance Foley's career, a continued failure of the O-line to master the zone scheme under his tutelage would have set back his career. From this view Foley's weakness was a lack of experience in pro-style schemes, nothing else, and this year will remedy that weakness. In a year, his standing will likely be higher than ever.

Obviously this is all speculation, I don't know the inner dynamics of the coaching staff. But I think it would be a grave mistake for fans to assume that Foley's move was a demotion. All athletes know that sometimes you have to take a step back in terms of performance in order to acquire the skills that will take you 2 steps forward. This is a similar situation, only in the coaching realm, and the move is laterally rather than down. Step sideways in preparation for a leap forward.
 
That's an excellent post and there is much to be learned from it that extends well beyond football.

With that said, were I a betting man, I think Foley will be on his way next season and P is keeping him around due to the overall loyalty that was shown by the staff during the transition. But, you could be correct as well.
 
pj said:
While it's possible that Foley took his move as a demotion, it's more likely that Pasqualoni, DeLeone, and Foley see it as a natural part of his personal career progression toward becoming a more complete coach, and a steppingstone toward greater responsibility and success. While the lateral move and the opportunity to witness how DeLeone teaches a zone blocking scheme will advance Foley's career, a continued failure of the O-line to master the zone scheme under his tutelage would have set back his career. From this view Foley's weakness was a lack of experience in pro-style schemes, nothing else, and this year will remedy that weakness. In a year, his standing will likely be higher than ever.
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Coach Foley has coached at the collegiate level for 34 years, including a very successful stint as the head coach of Colgate. Wherever he has gone, the run game has been outstanding. I don't think they are preparing him for greater responsibility. Coach P want's his guy in there, and I can't fault him for that.

But it is a demotion. And it will likely result in Coach Foley leaving after the season is up. Which will be a huge loss.

Coach Foley's Bio:
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/foley_mike00.html
 
I think the performance of our offensive line, which was exactly that on many occasions last year, is the key to our success this year. If they can't get the job done it won't matter who's behind center either. Coach Deleone may find himself the focus of a wider range of fans and analysts than is customary compared to the skill positions, for better or for worse because the offense really has more weapons available if the blocking is there. I would have been happy with Foley but if Deleone can implement a scheme where the guys are organized and get to their assignments, I'll be happy even if we don't dominate physically.
 
The move makes the information flow more efficient. From Deleone to Foley to OL, now Deleone to OL . Less will get lost or misinterpreted. Foley will improve TE play as adjunct to OL. TE is a hybrid postion and it all depends on how the head coach looks at it but it still is a subset of the OL(my view) or Recievers.I do not believe it is a lateral move but one that will help with the overall performance of what the head coach wants to accomplish. Generally if you want to see the staff hiearchy go to the list of coaches in the offiical site. Coach Foley has been placed 3 spots down the list from which he was held in previous years including last year.
 
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/03/02/cosell-talks-the-tight-end-factor/


This was published 3 weeks ago, after the Combine.

As noted. In complete and utter contrast to the concept that a superior would walk into an inferior's office, and say - you stink, I can do the job better than you, you go handle this......or something like that....

I think Coach P sat down with his coachign staff, outlined a plan that UConn is going to build a college football program that is based on pro-style football concepts on both sides of the ball, such that when we recruit, we are putting players into a system that is going to play football, the same way that the NFL plays football, play the game with players that perform in ways that NFL scouts look for...... and football is always cyclical and changing, so you've got to pay attention.

I believe he clearly laid out that the NFL is working around TE position on offense in recent years, and for the foreseeable future. It's definitely not a secret, how important the TE has become. I think the majority of our offense in the near future is goign to involve multiple TE's and multiple lineups with that that position.

I believe P met with Coach F and his entire offensive staff, evaluated his 3 decades plus of experience in recruiting for football in the northeast, and coaching the offensive side of the ball - all aspects, and found that his recruiting knowledge from developing players at all levels of college football, his ability to find and train offensive lineman at the 1-A level, his ability to coach and recruit all aspects of offense, and put him in charge of the most important position on offense when it comes to playing professional football, in a pro-style offense, and challenged him to go out and build the unit within the college football program that produces NFL calibre tight ends. Go out into our recruiting area, that is full of so many athletes - like the kid from the Saints that played basketball for so many years...........as well as football players.....

The TE position is where it's at in offensive football these days friends. I'm more than happy having Coach F in charge.

As a side note, I've been advocating for years that the coach's tape of games be made available to the public. I think football fans would gobble it up. Charge for it. The secrecy around it has long since become useless. People that can get useful info out of a game film, aren't going to be able to tell anyone that's actually game planning week to week..... anything they shouldn't already be able to know. Practice films, scrimmages, etc....off limits.....but games that already have been played and broadcast? I say make coaches film available to fans.

That link above is great place to learn about football. It's one of the very few places you'll see things discussed with the actual film to look at.
 
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