The OLine and the three Ws

[uconnbaseball]

I would be thrilled with an OL of (left to right) Bennett, Greene, Mateas, Masters, Friend. Bennett is the wild card in all of this.

If the OL does not show a level of improvement (taking into account the losses of Petrus and Ryan) in year 2 of DeLeone's offense I will be concerned. I agree with BL about P trying to do to much too soon last year. That was my biggest gripe with the staff as a whole. But the lumps we took last year absolutely have to start showing signs of paying off in year 2. Not saying we need to go 10-2, but tangible signs of improvement need to be evident.

I agree with this. I worry that the losses we suffered on the LOS (Petrus, Ryan) are going to hurt a lot more than we realize. Those guys have been consistent for a long time.

 

[Carl Spackler]

A comment on moving Foley to TE's for BL......it's a change - but it's not a demotion. I don't know why you look at ti that way? Becuase there are 5 guys on the OL and only 2, maybe 3 TE's on the field at a time? It's not a demotion it's change. Was Wholley demoted last year moving from offense to defense?

If you look at that photo again, you may notice that we are in a strong side right formation, and the Vanderbilt D-Line is in 4 man down front with a 1tech, a 3T tech at the tackles, and the ends you've got a 7 and a guy way out in a 9 strong side.

That TE is going to have individual responsibility on that 9 technique. THere is no backfield help on that side, and the back wasn't involved in protections on this play anyway.

I'm going to go ahead and say that our TE's have had difficulty in such situations in the past.

I'm glad to have Coach Foley and his abilities, working with the TE's this year.

 

[businesslawyer]

29 minutes. That's all it took.

.

I just laughed so loud that two people came into my office to see what was up. How do you explain Carl to non-Boneyarders?

 

[businesslawyer]

A comment on moving Foley to TE's for BL......it's a change - but it's not a demotion. I don't know why you look at ti that way? Becuase there are 5 guys on the OL and only 2, maybe 3 TE's on the field at a time? It's not a demotion it's change. Was Wholley demoted last year moving from offense to defense?

If you look at that photo again, you may notice that we are in a strong side right formation, and the Vanderbilt D-Line is in 4 man down front with a 1tech, a 3T tech at the tackles, and the ends you've got a 7 and a guy way out in a 9 strong side.

That TE is going to have individual responsibility on that 9 technique. THere is no backfield help on that side, and the back wasn't involved in protections on this play anyway.

I'm going to go ahead and say that our TE's have had difficulty in such situations in the past.

I'm glad to have Coach Foley and his abilities, working with the TE's this year.

Let's see. You are in charge of about 15 subordinates every year, and your direct boss walks into your office, tells you that he needs to be in charge of the 15 because you aren't as good as he is at teaching the 15 what he wants and you are now in charge of 4.

In what alternative universe is that not a demotion?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Let's see. You are in charge of about 15 subordinates every year, and your direct boss walks into your office, tells you that he needs to be in charge of the 15 because you aren't as good as he is at teaching the 15 what he wants and you are now in charge of 4.

In what alternative universe is that not a demotion?

Is that your impression of how the discussion went, or are you telling me that's how it happened?

 

[Carl Spackler]

BTW: BL _ did you get anythign out that last post I wrote other than I don't consider moving Coach Foley to TE's to be a demotion?

There's a lot more important stuff in there.

 

[cu73etr]

In the picture number 13 is the Mike. Just in case anybody wanted to know. The play looks to be an inside zone to the left.

 

[Dann]

im done following this thread.

 

[cu73etr]

Also the defense is not a 50 front it is an 80 front.

Great pic by the way. Love endzone shots.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Also the defense is not a 50 front it is an 80 front.

I referenced a 50 front b/c in Desmond Conner's article, it's noted by Kevin Friend, that he didn't really even understand what a 50 front was previously. I didn't mean that's what the defense was in the photo I posted.

I, for one, am much happier going into the fall, knowing that my Huskies lineman will be able to look at a front and identify it.

 

[cu73etr]

Sorry I thought you were saying it was a 50 front. Like I said earlier there are only 6 guys inthe box there and if the play is a zone read(which it looks like) you just need to be able to count to 6.

100% agree. O line is harder for them to gel then it is the QB/Reciever. If they get working together it should be a great year running the ball. Pass protection needs work (better rb blocking help too) and a pocket presence from the QB will be the sign for a successful season.

 

[Husky68]

Isn't the TE position a combo of offensive line blocking and catching the ball. Think catching the ball involves running pass patterns, reading backfield coverages, technique in catching the ball. If Foley hasn't coached some of this, seems like would be good to get some responsibility and experience there. Not saying more important coaching position, just has more than blocking on its plate (but still having the blocking). Seems like Uconn uses a lot of 2 TE sets, which makes even more involved.
Number of people you lead doesn't mean how important the job. Who is more important, the QB coach who has one position or the defensive backs coach who has 4 and sometimes 5 on the field? If you went from RB coach where have mostly 2 in game with H back to QB coach with only 1, is this an obvious demotion?

 

[businesslawyer]

Is that your impression of how the discussion went, or are you telling me that's how it happened?

Dez, who got this from someone, wrote: "So now that DeLeone has the system he's most familiar with, he's the best to teach it."

Adam Masters said "[DeLeone has] changed up our stances, our footwork and a lot of our technique for his offensive plays, so in a way, our technique is built for his play-calling and I would say it makes teh blocks a lot easier for us now."

My explanation is the only one consistent with the article. Do I know it happened that way? Do I know Foley wasn't told "you're the best offensive position coach we've got and our TE play needs you the most?" No, of course not. But that would be an entirely different story than the one the article presents.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Sorry I thought you were saying it was a 50 front. Like I said earlier there are only 6 guys inthe box there and if the play is a zone read(which it looks like) you just need to be able to count to 6.

100% agree. O line is harder for them to gel then it is the QB/Reciever. If they get working together it should be a great year running the ball. Pass protection needs work (better rb blocking help too) and a pocket presence from the QB will be the sign for a successful season.

Cuckoo carl spackler insight...... the QB that's got the best feet is going to be the starter. I agree, and I expect that the backfield pass protection will be a little better this year with a shoemate that stays on the field and Mccombs in year two.

As for the Mike - in the photo - as with anything our offense was doing in the past, all you need to do is look at where Petrus is looking. #13 - yup. Smart safeties sitting back there and looking could pick apart our blocking schemes, and it was constantly a one-one game with the safeties to break plays. You can play offensive football that way and be very successful, but you need very talented backfield players, and a QB that can make a defense pay for getting unbalanced.

Maybe if you feel up to it, you can take some of the readers through how you arrived at that six count to #13. I'm sure there are people out there that don't understand.

Got to have a thick skin though if you're going to try to talk football with some of the folks around here. ;-)

 

[peteadvrec]

For those that are interested in a solid foundation in football terminology and techniques beyond the play-by-play cliche's, I would recommend http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0078XOX3C (Take Your Eye Off the Ball by Pat Kirwan and others)

Former NFL GM, is on Sirius/XM NFL channel quite a bit, but it does a pretty good job of bridging a gap between fan and insider

 

[HuskyBandDad]

Wow - Never played but I thought I knew a little about football but after reading this thread not so much. My head hurts. Way to technical for me.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

A comment on moving Foley to TE's for BL......it's a change - but it's not a demotion. I don't know why you look at ti that way? Becuase there are 5 guys on the OL and only 2, maybe 3 TE's on the field at a time? It's not a demotion it's change. Was Wholley demoted last year moving from offense to defense?

If you look at that photo again, you may notice that we are in a strong side right formation, and the Vanderbilt D-Line is in 4 man down front with a 1tech, a 3T tech at the tackles, and the ends you've got a 7 and a guy way out in a 9 strong side.

That TE is going to have individual responsibility on that 9 technique. THere is no backfield help on that side, and the back wasn't involved in protections on this play anyway.

I'm going to go ahead and say that our TE's have had difficulty in such situations in the past.

I'm glad to have Coach Foley and his abilities, working with the TE's this year.

Oh My Goodness, I believe your correct, we are going to be much better off this year, Foley has the Tackles too! Someone has to hang in there like 73 said. Improvement this year and then next even TDH might like it. Maybe these guys are the Space Cowboys.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Wow - Never played but I thought I knew a little about football but after reading this thread not so much. My head hurts. Way to technical for me.

That's mostly just Carl trying to convince himself he's the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Dez, who got this from someone, wrote: "So now that DeLeone has the system he's most familiar with, he's the best to teach it."

Adam Masters said "[DeLeone has] changed up our stances, our footwork and a lot of our technique for his offensive plays, so in a way, our technique is built for his play-calling and I would say it makes teh blocks a lot easier for us now."

My explanation is the only one consistent with the article. Do I know it happened that way? Do I know Foley wasn't told "you're the best offensive position coach we've got and our TE play needs you the most?" No, of course not. But that would be an entirely different story than the one the article presents.

THat's what I thought. I disagree. I think there is another plausible explanation consistent with everything that's happened. I think that Coach P had a meeting or several meetings with his coaching staff, probably both individually and as a group, after the regular season ended in December and did a full eval and criticique of the program. He evaluated everyone's strengths weaknesses, etc.

Coach P is the head guy, and in those meetings, I think he established what he wants his vision to be of where htis program is going to go and how its going to do it in the future, and that the biggest thing that needs a major overhaul in this program is the offensive side of the ball. I think that P looked at his staff, got everyone's input and fit Coach Foley to the TE position and Deleone to the OL, and it's a very good fit for both, in that we need TE's that both run and pass block 1-1 on a DE or LB, and run pass routes, and Coach F has coached both things well - and add the recruiting on - it's a great fit.

Coach Foley is a veteran football coach in New England and in the northeast. He's been recruiting and coaching up players to high level of competition everywhere he's been and in all aspects of offense from Holy Cross to Colgate to Harvard. Coach FOley was with Joe Restic for a year. Talk about understganding the recruiting landscape of the northeast? Coach Foley is invaluable, having recruited so long with an understanding of the landscape, and now recruiting for a 1-A program for a few years, and it shows, with the players he's brought in for the OL, and I expect the same for the TE position now.

I think that is a much more reasonable explanation for what has happened, than the scenario you have presented, and there's nothing that reflects so negatively about the move from OL to TE.

If having Coach Foley coachign the OL rather than TE's is some source of pride for you, then I understand your view. I prefer to see Coach Foley do the same thing with the TE's that he's done with OL at UConn recruiting and development wise, and I suspect that's exactly what Coach P wanted, and what Coach F is excited about doing.

 

[Carl Spackler]

That's mostly just Carl trying to convince himself he's the smartest guy in the room.

THere is nothing complicated or rocket science about anything I've written. It's the language of football. It's all blocking and tackling. That's it.

 

[UConndad6]

My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.

 

[businesslawyer]

THat's what I thought. I disagree. I think there is another plausible explanation consistent with everything that's happened. I think that Coach P had a meeting or several meetings with his coaching staff, probably both individually and as a group, after the regular season ended in December and did a full eval and criticique of the program. He evaluated everyone's strengths weaknesses, etc.

Coach P is the head guy, and in those meetings, I think he established what he wants his vision to be of where htis program is going to go and how its going to do it in the future, and that the biggest thing that needs a major overhaul in this program is the offensive side of the ball. I think that P looked at his staff, got everyone's input and fit Coach Foley to the TE position and Deleone to the OL, and it's a very good fit for both, in that we need TE's that both run and pass block 1-1 on a DE or LB, and run pass routes, and Coach F has coached both things well - and add the recruiting on - it's a great fit.

Coach Foley is a veteran football coach in New England and in the northeast. He's been recruiting and coaching up players to high level of competition everywhere he's been and in all aspects of offense from Holy Cross to Colgate to Harvard. Coach FOley was with Joe Restic for a year. Talk about understganding the recruiting landscape of the northeast? Coach Foley is invaluable, having recruited so long with an understanding of the landscape, and now recruiting for a 1-A program for a few years, and it shows, with the players he's brought in for the OL, and I expect the same for the TE position now.

I think that is a much more reasonable explanation for what has happened, than the scenario you have presented, and there's nothing that reflects so negatively about the move from OL to TE.

If having Coach Foley coachign the OL rather than TE's is some source of pride for you, then I understand your view. I prefer to see Coach Foley do the same thing with the TE's that he's done with OL at UConn recruiting and development wise, and I suspect that's exactly what Coach P wanted, and what Coach F is excited about doing.

LMAO. You just wasted a page without in any way considering the article or what anyone said about it.

Seriously, do you not understand that it's o.k. to keep considering evidence of something after you've made your mind up?

 

[Carl Spackler]

My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.

One of the cardinal rules in scouting an offensive team and is to study the center. 99% of the time, the center will give away what's happening before it happens. In the past, when we made the move to 1-A football, the offensive schemes we used.....we hid nothing on offense and nothing was unpredictable to a defense, to the point that by the time your son was in his junior and senior years, when we ran trick plays, opposing defenses knew it because whatever we were doing was so different. That snapshot, I posted from 2010 homecoming game, in my opinion- you may find others that disagree ....is a damn good representation of our entire offense in the edsall era in a single clip, and Petrus' head is where it all starts. We were bringing our offense to the table, and everyone we played knew what was coming. Edsall, and I"m sure you can probably attest, got his players motivated and proud to have that attitude. THere's nothign wrong with it, but you better have a full and deep stable of experienced and talented players at every position to make it work.

I think that the offensive linemen probably had their heads spinning out of control the first time they got into meetings with DeLeone. The concepts that he brings to offense are just so different from what we did before. But when you get it down, look out. THe offense can move all over a defense.

THe center, whoever it will be in 2012, is going to be a HUGE part of making our offense work, because how that guy plays the game, is going to be directly related to how well opposing defenses are going to be prepared for us.

 

[Carl Spackler]

P.S. Good luck to Kashif in reaching the next level.

 

[UConndad6]

P.S. Good luck to Kashif in reaching the next level.

Thanks Carl. Kash has done all he can do to demonstrate to teams that he can be an asset as a WR/KR in the NFL. All we can do is wait and hope that one team was impressed.

 

[CTMike]

My wife and I would bring enough food and drink from home to every home game, to serve to Kash, many of his teammates, and family and friends who attended the game. After 1 of our losses, I asked the question about the Oline and their appearance of struggling execution. The response was that the Oline was having problems implementing the new blocking scheme. Apparently members of the Oline were to key off of the LB's. Kind of an "if this" scenario. If LB (A) did this then Oline (A) would do that. If LB (B) was here than Oline (B) would do this. Sounded confusing to me so I can imagine the affect on the linemen. The time it takes to process and analyze what LB (A) is doing, can be the difference between a sack or a correct block. This should help explain some of challenges and difficulties we all saw during the season which led to the 41 sacks, etc.

As always... love the insight. Thanks.

 

[sdhusky]

One of the cardinal rules in scouting an offensive team and is to study the center. 99% of the time, the center will give away what's happening before it happens. In the past, when we made the move to 1-A football, the offensive schemes we used.....we hid nothing on offense and nothing was unpredictable to a defense, to the point that by the time your son was in his junior and senior years, when we ran trick plays, opposing defenses knew it because whatever we were doing was so different. That snapshot, I posted from 2010 homecoming game, in my opinion- you may find others that disagree ....is a damn good representation of our entire offense in the edsall era in a single clip, and Petrus' head is where it all starts. We were bringing our offense to the table, and everyone we played knew what was coming. Edsall, and I"m sure you can probably attest, got his players motivated and proud to have that attitude. THere's nothign wrong with it, but you better have a full and deep stable of experienced and talented players at every position to make it work.

I think that the offensive linemen probably had their heads spinning out of control the first time they got into meetings with DeLeone. The concepts that he brings to offense are just so different from what we did before. But when you get it down, look out. THe offense can move all over a defense.

THe center, whoever it will be in 2012, is going to be a HUGE part of making our offense work, because how that guy plays the game, is going to be directly related to how well opposing defenses are going to be prepared for us.

what did you mean on page two when you said this:
"This is the last thing I"m going to write. Promise."

I think you might have broken your promise.

 

[SAMCRO]

Maybe if you feel up to it, you can take some of the readers through how you arrived at that six count to #13. I'm sure there are people out there that don't understand.

Got to have a thick skin though if you're going to try to talk football with some of the folks around here. ;-)

Nah cu73etr, people genuinely do want to hear what you'd have to add, and have a good FB discussion. It's when someone comes across as a condescending blow hard with an over inflated sense of themselves and an incorrect belief that they're the only guy in the room with a correct answer that they need a thick skin.

 

[huskysupporter]

Love talking O Line. Some random thoughts:

• Coach Foley - How anyone can try and spin that he wasn't demoted is puzzling to me. And I will not blame him at all when he leaves next year. He is one of the finest O Line coaches in the nation. He will not lack suitors next year.
• With that said, Coach P is the man that runs the ship, and he makes the decisions that he thinks will improve UCONN. He is doing it by putting Coach Deleone in there.
• Mike Backer calls. It can be called by anyone, ideally it should be the qb, as he has the best vantage point. But many teams' centers do it as well.
• Last years high sack totals were caused by some sub par play at the guard position and zero pocket presence by Johnny McEntee. There is a specific line protection for passes (i.e. inside protection, sprint out protection). When a qb panics and runs outside the pocket even though the left or right tackle is riding the defender around the qb, that sack is completely on the qb. It is very important IMO, for rbs and abs to know the protections and blocking schemes. It helps them perform their job better. It looked like Johnny had no idea. If a linebacker was flying in, he seemed to have no idea that the fullback or guard would pick him up. It caused panic, which caused him to stop looking downfield, which resulted in a sack.
• Lack of continuity really hurt the line last year.
• Lack of athleticism hurt Steve Greene in the pass game. Looked like he had cement shoes coming out of his stance pass blocking at times.
• Kevin Friend is going to become the leader of the line, IMO. Smart, solid technique, just needs to get stronger.
• If Jimmy Bennet can come back, that really helps the O Line.

 

[uconndogs]

The offensive schemes looked tremendously complex to me last season. Under HCRE we won games on the lines of scrimmage much more often than we lost them. It wasn't fancy and goodness knows the passing gome often struggled, but when it came time to control the ball we pushed folks around and Donald, or Dre or Todman had holes. Last season we did not do that. I will freely admit that I don't know enough football to comment on OL techniques, so to me it is quite possible that the new schemes being introduced last season were necessary to get ready for the future. I certainly hope so.

I also agree with bizlaw, this is P's decision to make and, frankly, he'll have a job if it works and will not if it fails. It's that simple. I know enough football to know that if you struggle at the offensive line of scrimmage you simply will not be successful.