The OLine and the three Ws | The Boneyard

The OLine and the three Ws

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Salivating already, but one question. How do you not know who the "Mike" or middle linebacker is? Isn't he kind of obvious?
 
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Salivating already, but one question. How do you not know who the "Mike" or middle linebacker is? Isn't he kind of obvious?

had a tough time choosing which inside backer to go after in a 3-4?
 
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It is all a numbers game in the zone blocking scheme. Depends on who is in the box. The mike could be any of the three linebackers it all depends on the front and alignment.
 
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A few thoughts.

1. Anyone who reads that and doesn't think Foley was demoted isn't reading carefully. That isn't right or wrong, by the way. The staff was to work for what Deleone is running. But it's the case.

2. Personally, I'm a fan of more of a dive blocking scheme, but you can win either way. Again, it's not right or wrong.

3. It confirms the fact that last year P took us a step back to try to take us two steps forward. Again, not a right or wrong thing, but you can't read that and not think we would have been better last year with less changes.

This team has a chance to win a lot of games against this schedule, but without improvement it could also lose a lot of games. Competent QB play and a better understanding of the changes the coaches were implementing are probably the two keys.
 
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The QB is suppose to identify the middle linebacker. Anyone who watches the Giants knows that before each play, Eli Manning points at the mike and yells his number. "56 is the mike" or "42 is the mike." You hear him yell it before every play.
 

Chin Diesel

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A few thoughts.

1. Anyone who reads that and doesn't think Foley was demoted isn't reading carefully. That isn't right or wrong, by the way. The staff was to work for what Deleone is running. But it's the case.

Agree.

2. Personally, I'm a fan of more of a dive blocking scheme, but you can win either way. Again, it's not right or wrong.

3. It confirms the fact that last year P took us a step back to try to take us two steps forward. Again, not a right or wrong thing, but you can't read that and not think we would have been better last year with less changes.

We definitely took the one step back. Only time will tell if it leads to two steps forward.

This team has a chance to win a lot of games against this schedule, but without improvement it could also lose a lot of games. Competent QB play and a better understanding of the changes the coaches were implementing are probably the two keys.
 
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The QB is suppose to identify the middle linebacker. Anyone who watches the Giants knows that before each play, Eli Manning points at the mike and yells his number. "56 is the mike" or "42 is the mike." You hear him yell it before every play.

Perhaps, perhaps Mike had trouble here also, Deleone had said that not only he had the burden to know John's plays but Scott's too, it is a lot to digest.
 
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A few thoughts.

1. Anyone who reads that and doesn't think Foley was demoted isn't reading carefully. That isn't right or wrong, by the way. The staff was to work for what Deleone is running. But it's the case.

2. Personally, I'm a fan of more of a dive blocking scheme, but you can win either way. Again, it's not right or wrong.

3. It confirms the fact that last year P took us a step back to try to take us two steps forward. Again, not a right or wrong thing, but you can't read that and not think we would have been better last year with less changes.

This team has a chance to win a lot of games against this schedule, but without improvement it could also lose a lot of games. Competent QB play and a better understanding of the changes the coaches were implementing are probably the two keys.
Aside from Donald Thomas and Will Beatty who as a Giant fan I can tell you struggled in the beginning...have we put any OLinemen into the NFL recently? Nope...and the fact they weren't exposed to a zone blocking system could be a good reason for this...a majority of NFL teams use the zone blocking schemes being instituted by DeLeone now. I think you will see Foley do a fine job with the TE's. And BL don't forget...if Hathaway had hired a coach from the college ranks (be it a standing HC or a OC or DC) the staff that remained when Edsall left would have been entirely let go.
 
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The QB is suppose to identify the middle linebacker. Anyone who watches the Giants knows that before each play, Eli Manning points at the mike and yells his number. "56 is the mike" or "42 is the mike." You hear him yell it before every play.

Yeah Brady does the same on the pats, but on some nfl teams the center sometimes takes care of it. Depends on the system I guess.
 
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Perhaps, perhaps Mike had trouble here also, Deleone had said that not only he had the burden to know John's plays but Scott's too, it is a lot to digest.

Hey duncan - my opinion is that there are very few, in any given year, college QB's starting at the 1-A level of competition that can approach scrimmage, and read the defensive front, and find the linebackers, and adjust the blocking schemes up front at the same time as reading the backside of the defense..... on a run play.........as for a pass play? you can count on one hand the number of QB's that can do it on a pass play. To expect a college QB to be able to do what a seasoned pro can do in the NFL is ludicrous. THe amount of time and film study and practice it takes to be able to do it at QB against defenses as well coached and built at the 1-A level is, well more than the vast majority of college QB's have under their belts.

THe QB's have enough to handle, at this level, than to try to put the blockign schemes up front in their lap too.

The blockign scheme adjustments need to happen up front, find the focal point, and communicate up and down the line and matchup head up or space in a zone on their own.

I've been talkign about this a lot since last year. The style of offense we bring is going to involve an entirely different style of offensive line play than we're used to. The concept of beating the snot out of the defensive front doesn't change. How you do it, does. I have a really nice photo from a few years back of the offense being run by Endres at the time, it's an endzone shot, just post snap, all 5 lineman and the TE are raising out of their stances in perfect unison, foot step, arm position, body position, it's like a chorus line dance. It was our bread and butter play. It was not a pass play, and it was not a formation and movement of the offensive line that lent itself to any sort of multiplicity or balance in play calling. That style of offense is old school Vince Lombardi. It's we're going to do our thing, and you're going to have to beat us. The thing about Vince Lombardi's offenses though - running to daylight, is that Lombardi had Bart Starr at QB and Paul Hornung at HB throwing the ball. Anyway...

Identifying the defensive front, and then picking out the "mike" middle linebacker is the key to establishing the blocking pattern up front so that everybody gets a hat on somebody else. The lineman need to do it themselves. In a balanced offense, the lineman need to be able to move and adjust to changing different defensive fronts, and still pick out a focal point for their blocking scheme, and that's what the "Mike" is. The blockign scheme moves out from that focal point. The footwork, stances, and movement patterns up front need to be able to handle both run blocking and pass blocking out the same stance as play calls can have multiple options run or pass coming out the same look. Not what we had on offense for many years. THat photo I"m talking about, maybe if I"m in a good mood I"ll post, it - can't have any sort of multiplicity in offense when your line is moving like that.

We all saw the potential of this offensive system and play calling last year. I'm looking to see the ball put into the endzone a lot more on offense this year.

Hope that helps clear things up a bit.
 
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Oline was a major weakness... 41 sacks!!! that's 3-4 stalled drives per game.

here's hoping we pull this together
 
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Aside from Donald Thomas and Will Beatty who as a Giant fan I can tell you struggled in the beginning...have we put any OLinemen into the NFL recently? Nope...and the fact they weren't exposed to a zone blocking system could be a good reason for this...a majority of NFL teams use the zone blocking schemes being instituted by DeLeone now. I think you will see Foley do a fine job with the TE's. And BL don't forget...if Hathaway had hired a coach from the college ranks (be it a standing HC or a OC or DC) the staff that remained when Edsall left would have been entirely let go.

Look -- P has to be allowed to do it his way. And, on O, his way is letting DeLeone do it his way. That's the only way you can fairly judge him.

I think Foley was an outstanding OL coach, and I think it's a shame that he no longer is and that I fear we may lose him for it, but that is all secondary to the prior paragraph. You hire a coach, you give him the chance to do it his way. If Deleone thinks he can teach zone blocking better than Foley, and he has P's support, so be it.
 
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Carl, just stop.

It doesn't take a genius QB to identify the mike especially after a week of film study. Not every college offense requires it. But lots do. It just much easier for the QB to do because he is standing tall and can see the whole defense.
 

uconnbaseball

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Oline was a major weakness... 41 sacks!!! that's 3-4 stalled drives per game.

here's hoping we pull this together

Wasn't all on them...having freshman quarterbacks and an immobile statue didn't help matters. They were bad, though.
 
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Look -- P has to be allowed to do it his way. And, on O, his way is letting DeLeone do it his way. That's the only way you can fairly judge him.

I think Foley was an outstanding OL coach, and I think it's a shame that he no longer is and that I fear we may lose him for it, but that is all secondary to the prior paragraph. You hire a coach, you give him the chance to do it his way. If Deleone thinks he can teach zone blocking better than Foley, and he has P's support, so be it.
We agree on this point then. I actually think Foley may actually improve the TE position.
 
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I would be thrilled with an OL of (left to right) Bennett, Greene, Mateas, Masters, Friend. Bennett is the wild card in all of this.

If the OL does not show a level of improvement (taking into account the losses of Petrus and Ryan) in year 2 of DeLeone's offense I will be concerned. I agree with BL about P trying to do to much too soon last year. That was my biggest gripe with the staff as a whole. But the lumps we took last year absolutely have to start showing signs of paying off in year 2. Not saying we need to go 10-2, but tangible signs of improvement need to be evident.
 
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High School quarterbacks in a zone running scheme can identify the Mike. Not very hard. Need to be able to count to 6.
 
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High School quarterbacks in a zone running scheme can identify the Mike. Not very hard. Need to be able to count to 6.

I thought it was the RB's job to identify the Mike. And when they couldn't do it, they tapped on their helmet while jogging to the bench.

Sorry Carl. I'm piling on. Just having fun. :)
 
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3. It confirms the fact that last year P took us a step back to try to take us two steps forward. Again, not a right or wrong thing, but you can't read that and not think we would have been better last year with less changes.

I don't understand. You can either take a step back in order to improve the overall health of the team or you can win more games temporarily but lose more in the long run, but you seem to imply that we could have been better last year without some sort of cost (this year?).
 

Dann

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I don't understand. You can either take a step back in order to improve the overall health of the team or you can win more games temporarily but lose more in the long run, but you seem to imply that we could have been better last year without some sort of cost (this year?).

PP needs to teach the team A, B, C and D

year 1 he teaches them A and B. they struggle using those 2 in live play but becuase there isn't a lot overall that changed we win 7 games and goto a bowl.

year 2 he teaches them C and D. Now they do a nice job with A and B but go thru 1st year struggles with C and D. they win 7 games and goto a bowl.

year 1 they learn A, B, C, D. they struggle in live play with learning all 4 and just miss a bowl game with several games being close(if only they learned half those things in year 1).

year 2 they are now in year 2 for all things. they win 8+ games :)
 
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You know, a while back, a year or so, I was approached by an alum. Discussed uconn football - football a long time ago. He told me that he followed this website and used to write a ton. He also told me that he got really tired of it, and stopped writing,and then stopped really reading much at all, but saw some of my stuff got him to contact me. I didn't understadn at the time what he was writing to me. I thought this website was the coolest thing since sliced bread when I discovered it. I now understand why he stopped writing.

Here's the photo I was writing about. THose that care to try to understand what I wrote, take a look. Those that don't. Whatever. Waste of time.

Oline2.jpg
 
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This is the last thing I"m going to write. Promise.

THere's a big duckING difference bw being able to count to six, and being able to get 11 men to be able to adjust and run an offensive play effectively within a game plan.
 
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It is all a numbers game in the zone blocking scheme. Depends on who is in the box. The mike could be any of the three linebackers it all depends on the front and alignment.

Ive also heard the term used just for someone usually the offensive line needs to be responsible/account for and can be used for DL and Safety postions too. Depending on the formation like you said, as maybe one of the OLB is identified as a "Mike" then you would look out for a Safety blitz coming from his outside. Good photo, Carl.
 
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