Mixed thoughts on this segment. Geno's motivational techniques have worked through the years, but the Lou clip seemed on the edge between harassment and "tough coaching." Not everyone responds well to this type of feedback.It's
It's pretty obvious that Samuelson was devastated. Just look at her terrible performance in the games following Auriemma's "tune up."
Why does everyone think that these women are so emotionally fragile that they are incapable of dealing
with an ass chewing? I think the reality is that these are some tough cookies. If they weren't they would be playing elsewhere.
Maybe it's some fans that are too sensitive to deal with it.
I agree with a lot of you above. It's no coincidence that the two greatest coaches in the history of WCBB are Geno and Pat Summitt: just think about how SHE treated her players publicly. And yet, just like Geno, Pat commanded complete and utter loyalty from her players, because, we have absolutely no idea what follows one of Geno's (or Pat's) ripping. Whether he goes out of his way to say something nice in compensation; whether CD covers for him; whether he's expecting other players to rally around the player to develop team cohesion. We just don't know everything what goes on behind the cameras, but we DO know how much loyalty and love Geno commands of his players, so something else we can't see must be going on.
This isn't D-3 walk-on kids playing in a gym that holds a couple of hundred. This is the most elite version of amateur women's basketball in the world, played under glaring lights and the greatest possible pressure. To paraphrase Hyman Roth: This is the business they've chosen.
The scent of paternalism is strong in this thread.
The scent of paternalism is strong in this thread.
Good for you, Ed. Your handle indicates your status as a member of a dwindling but I hope unabashed constituency. Some of my favorite people, actually.Paternalism is probably one of the factors accounting for the strong following among seniors that UConn women's basketball has always enjoyed. The young women are taken to heart.
So, those of us who think that the UConn women can be treated like athletes don't enjoy our affection? I would disagree.Good for you, Ed. Your handle indicates your status as a member of a dwindling but I hope unabashed constituency. Some of my favorite people, actually.
The trend now is different: athletes are athletes, to be considered all the same. No girls, just men and women; and that distinction doesn't mean much either, other than what is possible under finite physical limits.
But I remember the best UConn fan I ever knew, and the one who did the most for the University, urging me to attend a reception for the team members. When I hedged on it, he persisted: "But they're OUR GIRLS!"
Those afflicted with OGS (the sometimes derided "Our Girls Syndrome") don't need to apologize to anyone. There's an honored and pioneering place for them among the various UConn fan constituencies, and they're good company in my book.
Agree about the tone, except for the snark ("I could draw a picture of a heart . . ."). But the latter is his prerogative entirely; he knows what he's doing, even if (being human -- probably) he may not always do it perfectly.I mean his tone wasn't angry or accusatory, it was very matter of fact. I just don't think there was enough shown in that snippet from Geno to warrant what they showed of Lou's countenance... had to be more to it than that....
Much ado about nothing IMO. Emotional motivator, Geno. Makes for good TV too, I guess, as evidenced by all the discussion/controversy.is there video of the KLS-situation posted on the BY?
(is it the "I cant give you a heart" snippet?) I hope not cause that wasn't jack!
Maureen the daughter of Army's coach Magarity has been coaching at University of New Hampshire since 2010. Maureen is not nearly the screamer that her father is and both are delightful people outside of the basketball arena.I've been to a West Point game and sat behind the bench.. talk about a screamer .. yikes ..
Nothing negative about any other group. The aforesaid march is good for excellence and growth, both team and individual. Truth be told, in this sort of discussion, my curled lip only applies to a few individuals whom I perceive as lacking a capacity for empathy, maybe even despising it -- an outlook I suspect goes far beyond sports.
My apologies regarding the spacing....I copy/pasted it, and it's how it came out.I haven't posted here since June....been meaning to since November....but RL seems to always get in the way. But I feel compelled to make time, and comment on the episode regarding Lou's heart, and on Geno being served up by too many forum members as not only a great basketball coach, which he is, but also as virtually infallible, unassailable, and unaccountable, which he isn't.
I encountered a puzzling mindset of obeisance on this board some six months ago. I remarked then....
Interesting replies to my criticism of Geno in mishandling NB and adversely impacting the team's 2016 prospects. I have to stand by my contentions.....explanations, justifications, and rationalizations notwithstanding.
I was expecting a spirited defense of Geno, but am quite surprised at his wholesale acquittal. Plausible deniability would have been a nebulous but more acceptable cover, but I sensed instead a unified front exempting Geno from answerability, thus culpability. UConn in November will not be what it should be, and it's not "not anyone's fault"....providence isn't at play here :-( . In all, it leaves an impression that is too cavalierly exculpatory. Sorry, guys.
Such deferential treatment of Geno was specious then....even more so today vis-à-vis the preposterous defense of Geno's unwarranted rebuke of Lou's character, as presented on a recent tape (assuming its authenticity and there was no editing for dramatic effect). Geno has no right to question Lou's heart in front of the team, under any circumstances....that it was made public is outrageous.
There's ass-chewing and there's ass-chewing, the spectrum runs from betwixt and between deserved to undeserved.....wrist-slap to strident.....constructive to destructive. To cavalierly and publicly assert that Lou doesn't have heart is a humiliation bordering on destructive, which can only be undeserved.
Moreover, that Geno can draw a heart for her benefit is piling mockery on to verbal abuse.
Inherent in many forum comments is whether one can or should be able to "take it", or not, it being a disturbing impropriety that should not have been alleged to begin with.
To then assay Lou's fortitude against such a personal censure re-victimizes her.
Depending on context and other factors, verbal aggression by or from random people is one thing, when they are uttered by an authority figure who has dominion over one's aspirations (perhaps future professional careers for some)....when it's superior-to-subordinate such as Hall of Fame Coach Geno-to-Sophomore Player Katie Lou....it can be an indignity, as well as deeply hurtful.
It wasn't long ago that I was where Lou is....an age where she's still discovering herself, including what she rightfully has coming to her, all the bads, goods and uglies....regardless of legal chronology, she's not fully transitioned from girl to woman, from minor to adult....life can still be a million-piece puzzle. On the other hand, Geno is a grown up, he ought to know better.
For many forum members to dismiss Geno's unfortunate verbal aggression is callous at best, and brings into question their own lack of heart they forcefully concur Lou doesn't have, thus deserving to be chastised.
Worse yet, it will bring forth Lou 2.0, a new, improved version....perhaps with double the heart!
What is of such import or so hugely at stake that permits a meritorious coach to so audaciously rebuke a player's character?
Flip the parameter and I recall my Gramps' telling me many years ago of a Georgetown player mistakenly passing the ball to an opponent late in a game, which cost the team the game. Having just lost the chance for the ultimate prize---a national championship---Georgetown's coach hugged his crushed player to console him, to make him whole again. It was just a basketball game, with a monumental screw-up at that, but which Hall of Fame Coach John Thompson turned into an inspiring display of pure heart, a delightful moment witnessed by millions.
Great coaches do not resort to dignity-shredding take-downs of players who may be messing up, nor does his position give him a right to....be it to a star player, budding star or last woman at the end of the bench.
I needed to speak out on this. I wish I had more time. There are a few here I suspect support my position....thank you.
I will respond to some curious Geno-supportive comments from forum members as well.
Welcome back. I do not support your position because there is no balance to it. For all the yelling that Geno does, those occasions are more than off set with hugs, tears of pride, and genuine appreciation of his players effort.I haven't posted here since June....been meaning to since November....but RL seems to always get in the way. But I feel compelled to make time, and comment on the episode regarding Lou's heart, and on Geno being served up by too many forum members as not only a great basketball coach, which he is, but also as virtually infallible, unassailable, and unaccountable, which he isn't.
I encountered a puzzling mindset of obeisance on this board some six months ago. I remarked then....
Interesting replies to my criticism of Geno in mishandling NB and adversely impacting the team's 2016 prospects. I have to stand by my contentions.....explanations, justifications, and rationalizations notwithstanding.
I was expecting a spirited defense of Geno, but am quite surprised at his wholesale acquittal. Plausible deniability would have been a nebulous but more acceptable cover, but I sensed instead a unified front exempting Geno from answerability, thus culpability. UConn in November will not be what it should be, and it's not "not anyone's fault"....providence isn't at play here :-( . In all, it leaves an impression that is too cavalierly exculpatory. Sorry, guys.
Such deferential treatment of Geno was specious then....even more so today vis-à-vis the preposterous defense of Geno's unwarranted rebuke of Lou's character, as presented on a recent tape (assuming its authenticity and there was no editing for dramatic effect). Geno has no right to question Lou's heart in front of the team, under any circumstances....that it was made public is outrageous.
There's ass-chewing and there's ass-chewing, the spectrum runs from betwixt and between deserved to undeserved.....wrist-slap to strident.....constructive to destructive. To cavalierly and publicly assert that Lou doesn't have heart is a humiliation bordering on destructive, which can only be undeserved.
Moreover, that Geno can draw a heart for her benefit is piling mockery on to verbal abuse.
Inherent in many forum comments is whether one can or should be able to "take it", or not, it being a disturbing impropriety that should not have been alleged to begin with.
To then assay Lou's fortitude against such a personal censure re-victimizes her.
Depending on context and other factors, verbal aggression by or from random people is one thing, when they are uttered by an authority figure who has dominion over one's aspirations (perhaps future professional careers for some)....when it's superior-to-subordinate such as Hall of Fame Coach Geno-to-Sophomore Player Katie Lou....it can be an indignity, as well as deeply hurtful.
It wasn't long ago that I was where Lou is....an age where she's still discovering herself, including what she rightfully has coming to her, all the bads, goods and uglies....regardless of legal chronology, she's not fully transitioned from girl to woman, from minor to adult....life can still be a million-piece puzzle. On the other hand, Geno is a grown up, he ought to know better.
For many forum members to dismiss Geno's unfortunate verbal aggression is callous at best, and brings into question their own lack of heart they forcefully concur Lou doesn't have, thus deserving to be chastised.
Worse yet, it will bring forth Lou 2.0, a new, improved version....perhaps with double the heart!
What is of such import or so hugely at stake that permits a meritorious coach to so audaciously rebuke a player's character?
Flip the parameter and I recall my Gramps' telling me many years ago of a Georgetown player mistakenly passing the ball to an opponent late in a game, which cost the team the game. Having just lost the chance for the ultimate prize---a national championship---Georgetown's coach hugged his crushed player to console him, to make him whole again. It was just a basketball game, with a monumental screw-up at that, but which Hall of Fame Coach John Thompson turned into an inspiring display of pure heart, a delightful moment witnessed by millions.
Great coaches do not resort to dignity-shredding take-downs of players who may be messing up, nor does his position give him a right to....be it to a star player, budding star or last woman at the end of the bench.
I needed to speak out on this. I wish I had more time. There are a few here I suspect support my position....thank you.
I will respond to some curious Geno-supportive comments from forum members as well.
No, many (perhaps most) sensible people did.Am I the only one that took Geno's comment as simply... you need to go out and play with heart, and play with emotion because that's something only YOU can do - I can't coach you to do it and I can't make you do it, you have to do it for yourself?
Wish I could like this post more than onceAm I the only one that took Geno's comment as simply... you need to go out and play with heart, and play with emotion because that's something only YOU can do - I can't coach you to do it and I can't make you do it, you have to do it for yourself. I genuinely didn't see it as Geno berating her character or tearing her down or anything of the sort. I simply saw it as a coach looking for more emotion, more grit, more passion, more fire, more drive, more heart from a player. Alas, I'm not going to argue with opinions because everyone is more than entitled to them. I just personally do not agree with the assertion that Geno's comment has now been dubbed verbally abusive. That's a pretty bold and strong accusation to throw around, one that has a lot of weight and one that carries consequences.
Geno loves these kids. Geno respects these kids, cherishes them, and is so proud of them. Geno appreciates these kids. It's evident all the time, in the big moments and in the little moments. There's more than enough evidence to support the idea that Geno, while being a tough and demanding coach, appreciates and cares about every single member of that team more than we or anyone else could possibly ever know. He's with them day in and day out. He's in practices, behind the scenes, in the big moments and the small ones. We're not. We see such a small glimpse into that world, into the workings of the programs and into the lives of the players and staff. We essentially know so little compared to what they do. That's always worth keeping in mind during situations like this.
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That's a lot of words. I sorta dozed off there a bit towards the end, sorry.I haven't posted here since June....been meaning to since November....but RL seems to always get in the way. But I feel compelled to make time, and comment on the episode regarding Lou's heart, and on Geno being served up by too many forum members as not only a great basketball coach, which he is, but also as virtually infallible, unassailable, and unaccountable, which he isn't.
I encountered a puzzling mindset of obeisance on this board some six months ago. I remarked then....
Interesting replies to my criticism of Geno in mishandling NB and adversely impacting the team's 2016 prospects. I have to stand by my contentions.....explanations, justifications, and rationalizations notwithstanding.
I was expecting a spirited defense of Geno, but am quite surprised at his wholesale acquittal. Plausible deniability would have been a nebulous but more acceptable cover, but I sensed instead a unified front exempting Geno from answerability, thus culpability. UConn in November will not be what it should be, and it's not "not anyone's fault"....providence isn't at play here :-( . In all, it leaves an impression that is too cavalierly exculpatory. Sorry, guys.
Such deferential treatment of Geno was specious then....even more so today vis-à-vis the preposterous defense of Geno's unwarranted rebuke of Lou's character, as presented on a recent tape (assuming its authenticity and there was no editing for dramatic effect). Geno has no right to question Lou's heart in front of the team, under any circumstances....that it was made public is outrageous.
There's ass-chewing and there's ass-chewing, the spectrum runs from betwixt and between deserved to undeserved.....wrist-slap to strident.....constructive to destructive. To cavalierly and publicly assert that Lou doesn't have heart is a humiliation bordering on destructive, which can only be undeserved.
Moreover, that Geno can draw a heart for her benefit is piling mockery on to verbal abuse.
Inherent in many forum comments is whether one can or should be able to "take it", or not, it being a disturbing impropriety that should not have been alleged to begin with.
To then assay Lou's fortitude against such a personal censure re-victimizes her.
Depending on context and other factors, verbal aggression by or from random people is one thing, when they are uttered by an authority figure who has dominion over one's aspirations (perhaps future professional careers for some)....when it's superior-to-subordinate such as Hall of Fame Coach Geno-to-Sophomore Player Katie Lou....it can be an indignity, as well as deeply hurtful.
It wasn't long ago that I was where Lou is....an age where she's still discovering herself, including what she rightfully has coming to her, all the bads, goods and uglies....regardless of legal chronology, she's not fully transitioned from girl to woman, from minor to adult....life can still be a million-piece puzzle. On the other hand, Geno is a grown up, he ought to know better.
For many forum members to dismiss Geno's unfortunate verbal aggression is callous at best, and brings into question their own lack of heart they forcefully concur Lou doesn't have, thus deserving to be chastised.
Worse yet, it will bring forth Lou 2.0, a new, improved version....perhaps with double the heart!
What is of such import or so hugely at stake that permits a meritorious coach to so audaciously rebuke a player's character?
Flip the parameter and I recall my Gramps' telling me many years ago of a Georgetown player mistakenly passing the ball to an opponent late in a game, which cost the team the game. Having just lost the chance for the ultimate prize---a national championship---Georgetown's coach hugged his crushed player to console him, to make him whole again. It was just a basketball game, with a monumental screw-up at that, but which Hall of Fame Coach John Thompson turned into an inspiring display of pure heart, a delightful moment witnessed by millions.
Great coaches do not resort to dignity-shredding take-downs of players who may be messing up, nor does his position give him a right to....be it to a star player, budding star or last woman at the end of the bench.
I needed to speak out on this. I wish I had more time. There are a few here I suspect support my position....thank you.
I will respond to some curious Geno-supportive comments from forum members as well.