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The Black Hole of Sports

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BUHusky said:
The lack of any good Americans since Sampras and Agassi has probably hurt the sport in the US, but I think the Williams sisters along with the greatness of Fed/Rafa have helped evened things out to a degree.

Nadal and Federer are probably the 2 greatest players of all time, and Djoker is already top 10, and will arguably end up top 5 of all time. And Serena is the greatest ever in the women's game. It is certainly a golden age in tennis that we will probably won't see again for a long time (if ever).
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Agreed
 
If baseball and the MLB are declining, then what do you consider the NHL? Yes it's been in our face the past few weeks, but the regular season is brutally boring. I watched every second of every Rangers playoff game, but watched maybe 7/82 regular season games. If you want to take your weird vendetta to a sport, don't point it at my pastime! ;)

On the baseball/soccer argument, I grew up playing baseball, and followed the Yanks harder than anything. I missed maybe 75-100 of their ~1200 games from 2005-2013. Now, due to college and having a life/job, I catch about 60% of their games. However, soccer is quickly catching up. I discovered it in 2010, and by 2014 I was all in. It's now 3rd place, by a large margin both ways, in which sports I follow the hardest (MLB, CBB, FIFA, NFL, NBA, etc). Still, when I try to talk sports with friends, the vast majority know baseball a helluva lot better than soccer. It is no doubt on a swift rise, but maybe not with as much celerity as you'd like.
 
UConNick said:
If baseball and the MLB are declining, then what do you consider the NHL? Yes it's been in our face the past few weeks, but the regular season is brutally boring. I watched every second of every Rangers playoff game, but watched maybe 7/82 regular season games. If you want to take your weird vendetta to a sport, don't point it at my pastime! ;)

On the baseball/soccer argument, I grew up playing baseball, and followed the Yanks harder than anything. I missed maybe 75-100 of their ~1200 games from 2005-2013. Now, due to college and having a life/job, I catch about 60% of their games. However, soccer is quickly catching up. I discovered it in 2010, and by 2014 I was all in. It's now 3rd place, by a large margin both ways, in which sports I follow the hardest (MLB, CBB, FIFA, NFL, NBA, etc). Still, when I try to talk sports with friends, the vast majority know baseball a helluva lot better than soccer. It is no doubt on a swift rise, but maybe not with as much celerity as you'd like.
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I doubt anyone has a vendetta against a sport, I used to love baseball but as I've gotten older I find it more boring. I don't see how some people don't recognize there are problems facing baseball. Baseball used to be America's pastime but that time has long since passed. America is crazy about football and the big four sports have always been football, baseball, basketball and hockey a way distant fourth. It's very similar to tennis with Federer, Nadal, Djokovic with Murray a way distant fourth.
 
superjohn said:
I doubt anyone has a vendetta against a sport, I used to love baseball but as I've gotten older I find it more boring. I don't see how some people don't recognize there are problems facing baseball. Baseball used to be America's pastime but that time has long since passed. America is crazy about football and the big four sports have always been football, baseball, basketball and hockey a way distant fourth. It's very similar to tennis with Federer, Nadal, Djokovic with Murray a way distant fourth.
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Fair enough. There are definitely issues; for every friend I can have a good conversation about baseball with, I have one that considers the game too boring to be worth their time. I for one don't see that, because I appreciate all the little nuances that are involved in every single pitch. To most people, and even the casual fan, there's just not enough action. They have tried to correct these issues, and the speed up rules this season have been a good start.
 
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zyron said:
I'm sure you mean revenue. So, MLB teams (singular) are signing multi-BILLION dollar deals for their broadcast rights, and you see this as a counter to my argument?
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Yes, meant revenue. TV execs always pay too much for TV rights and teams are always overvalued. Just look at the TV deal the NBA signed last year for $24 billion, more than three times per year than the previous contract. Also look at Ballmer buying the Clippers for 2 billion, now every franchise sticker just went way up. As for ratings there is no denying that nationally things are declining, six of the last seven World Series have been the lowest.
 
Baseball isn't dying - it's actually doing rather well.

Ratings are terrific on regional networks even if national games are seeing the same kind of viewership declines that even the NFL is beginning to suffer. They sold about 74M tickets last year and revenue is growing at a very healthy rate. (Baseball is much less reliant on national television money than is, say, the NFL - baseball gets less than 10% of their revenue from the national networks, so claiming that their revenue is a function of television's overly optimistic deal-making is basically bunk.)

If you took the NBA's revenue and added it to the NHL's revenue and then threw in MSL and the CFL, you'd basically have baseball.
 
Golf and baseball kinda - but the dead period started a long time ago for me, like after the Huskies season ended. The hockey playoffs keep me alive until the Lightning took out my Rangers and now it's hope the Yankees continue to use smoke and mirrors to somehow stay near the top of the east, although it's still not all that exciting since heating became so relevant.

3 majors makes golf worth while, especially Chambers Bay coming up real soon. That course is so unlike a US Open course it should be a fun watch. I wonder if an American can win on a European type venue?

But really October 15th or whenever practice begins can't get here fast enough.

Tennis? I get watching tennis is great but tennis to me is like women's golf. Are we ever going to have an American worthy of competing at that high of a level again or are we accepting we suck?
 
I love the guys who passionately try to convince you that NOW soccer is REALLY gaining popularity in the US. Beckham signed here! Freddy Adu is the future!

Americans are never, ever, ever going to fall for this sport, it's flopping and their 1-0, 1-1, 0-0 scores.
 
The only demographic MLB is losing ground in is grade school kids. And baseball is not unique in that trend.

When I was a third grader, most of the boys had favorite teams in baseball and football, and actively followed them. Any sports talk immediately brought many participants.

That kind of thing only happens if you mention Minecraft these days.
 
huskiesNhoos said:
anyone watching the women's world cup? I watched some of the colombia vs mexico game the other day, and it's just bad...

I love soccer, but I still can't even get myself to watch most of the women's games. With the exception of maybe 3 or 4 teams it's just terrible
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I disagree. You watched 2 of the worst teams. Typically I tend to think women's college soccer is unwatchable, but I have been shocked at how good these women are. Even Canada v Korea was played at a veery high level. The best team to my eyes is Brazil. They play a much better game than US college men's game, with the skill levels similar though at a slower level for the women. I've only watched 4 games tho.
 
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Mr. Wonderful said:
The only demographic MLB is losing ground in is grade school kids. And baseball is not unique in that trend.

When I was a third grader, most of the boys had favorite teams in baseball and football, and actively followed them. Any sports talk immediately brought many participants.

That kind of thing only happens if you mention Minecraft these days.
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Back to the lacrosse thing, I just don't get the madness around this sport. Are we going to see pro leagues on TV in primetime in 20-30 years when I'm an old man?

and back to the start of the post, I know it already started but I'll be watching Ninja Warrior as it goes, that's kind of a sport...


Baseball is definitely losing steam, when I was a kid 15-20 years ago, in my town basically everyone played baseball and half or a bit more played soccer. I don't know if it is always a regional thing, so if a town has a huge baseball league kids are more likely to just join since all the other kids are talking about it and signs are on the street, but I really hope that basketball remains popular.

More than baseball, hockey, most other athletic things, if you have a bit of driveway and a hoop and ball, you can entertain yourself all alone. If you live near a court, all you need is a ball, its such a great way to pass the time while getting your heart rate up.
 
I don't feel that the problems with baseball are inherent to the major league game on the field. I feel that...

1) To play it as a kid, you have formal leagues like Babe Ruth and Little League but those are maybe 10 games a year for most kids. A neighborhood of kids today just doesn't gather in groups of 18-22 on an open field and play baseball for an afternoon anymore. Helicopter parenting doesn't let the kids take off for the day and kids are now involved in a ton of things. My daughter plays lacrosse, competes in gymnastics, is in Girl Scouts, plays an instrument in the band and is in a townwide chorus. When I was her age, I played Little League. That's it.

2) When I was 11? We had 3 channels. I watched the NBC Game of the Week on Saturday and TWIB before it......well, because there were no other games to watch. I think I have about 1,000 cable channels and my daughter follows all these "YouTubers" and their "channels" now. The general interest of any kid is just sprayed over a wider area.
 
champs99and04 said:
I'd wager that there is a big divide regarding the perception of baseballs popularity between demographics. Everybody understands that baseball is a sport watched primarily by older, white people at this point, but I don't get the sense that everybody understands just how diminished the sport's presence has become among the 15-25 crowd. In many regions in the northeast, baseball has fallen behind not only soccer, but lacrosse as well.

Me, I'll still watch baseball, but not nearly as much as I used to. Basketball and football are my favorite sports, but I have grown to love hockey in recent years. I think if ESPN promoted the NHL like they did the other sports, it would surpass baseball relatively quickly. It is a great sport that has some of the same problems baseball is having, but I think the fast-paced nature of the sport makes it more equipped to gain popularity moving forward.
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As an early 20-something who grew up in Fairfield County and lives in NYC, I can say this is just patently false in my experience. Not one person I know has ever told me about going to or watching a lacrosse game and although there are quite a few friends of mine who are soccer fanatics (and tell EVERYONE about it), they're still heavily outweighed by baseball fans, though I will say that on average, the smaller number of soccer fans are much more diehard than the baseball fans. Total numbers though, it's not even in the same ballpark.
 
It really is only a month and half or less as the basketball finals could last until June 19th and then you have the draft the next week. NFL pre-season starts beginning of August and college football starts near the end of August. So really only 1 dead month being July. Time to travel. I prefer soccer or baseball also now but still a huge Red Sox fan so will keep up with them online(don't watch them much).
 
RayIsTheGOAT said:
Why would people watch the World Cup if they don't like soccer?
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Patriotism. Assuming that wasn't a rhetorical question. The same reason I've watched figure skating.

We had 20 people in our conference room watching the USA/Germany and USA/Belgium matches. I'd say 3-4 of those people are soccer fans.
 
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RayIsTheGOAT said:
After the NBA and NHL finals, it is a dead time in sports until the Fall. Especially this year that occurs every 4 years, a year after the World Cup and no Olympics. Plus the entire sport of baseball is on the ever-so-gradual downslope. And frankly, does anyone truly care about the WNBA? The Connecticut Sun blow and are barely ever broadcasted. It's just a long grind until basketball season.

What will you watch this summer, if anything? Tour de France? Gold Cup? MLB? WNBA? I personally enjoy Wimbledon.
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When I first saw the subject of your post I thought you were referring to Carmelo Anthony after you pass him the ball....
 
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UConNick said:
If baseball and the MLB are declining, then what do you consider the NHL? Yes it's been in our face the past few weeks, but the regular season is brutally boring. I watched every second of every Rangers playoff game, but watched maybe 7/82 regular season games. If you want to take your weird vendetta to a sport, don't point it at my pastime! ;)
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I'd be interested in the NHL playoffs if this winter sport actually had their championship in the winter, or at least mid-spring. The last thing I give a ***k about in June is hockey. It actually wouldn't be that hard. How about, I dunno, only giving playoff spots to the top teams, and not over half the league. Given how many games they play during the regular season, that's ridiculous.
 
BUHusky said:
The lack of any good Americans since Sampras and Agassi has probably hurt the sport in the US, but I think the Williams sisters along with the greatness of Fed/Rafa have helped evened things out to a degree.

Nadal and Federer are probably the 2 greatest players of all time, and Djoker is already top 10, and will arguably end up top 5 of all time. And Serena is the greatest ever in the women's game. It is certainly a golden age in tennis that we probably won't see again for a long time (if ever).
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I don't buy Nadal as better than Sampras. Nadal is obviously much, much better on clay than Sampras ever was, but Sampras was easily superior better on grass and hard court. Better career record at the US, Australian, and Wimbledon.

Though this doesn't really debate your overall point, which is that there are some really outstanding tennis players around right now.
 
I love baseball, so I'm either watching the Red Sox or the MLB Network each night. Besides that, I've been watching parts of the Women's World Cup and I'll tune in to watch the Gold Cup. Can't wait for next summer when the USMNT plays in the Copa America....CANT WAIT
 
I love the NBA Draft and free agency so I'm good until about mid-July. After that it's time for outdoor stuff, BBQs, etc. Enjoying summer and reading all the pointless NFL camp stuff.

I haven't followed baseball in years, grew up loving the sport but as an adult it's just too boring and tedious/long to follow. There's always something else I'd rather do than watch a baseball game lol.
 
Wait are you telling me the constant stream of passive entertainment in the form of sports (if we're making the massive leap of not including baseball) is ending and I may *shudder* have to find other ways to entertain/occupy myself? IN THE MONTHS OF JULY AND AUGUST?!

Oh wait, I have True Detective, Better Call Saul on DVR, Masterchef, Fear of the Walking Dead
 
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Fishy said:
If you took the NBA's revenue and added it to the NHL's revenue and then threw in MSL and the CFL, you'd basically have baseball.
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A big part of that is the sheer volume of baseball - more games and bigger stadiums. Read an article recently that if you break it down by a per-game level MLB and NBA are nearly equals. Of course I can't find it at the moment, darn Interwebz...
 
Rocktheworld said:
Oh wait, I have True Detective, Better Call Saul on DVR, Masterchef, Fear of the Walking Dead
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I was pumped Charlie didn't get the axe last night.
 
CallMeBruce said:
I don't buy Nadal as better than Sampras. Nadal is obviously much, much better on clay than Sampras ever was, but Sampras was easily superior better on grass and hard court. Better career record at the US, Australian, and Wimbledon.

Though this doesn't really debate your overall point, which is that there are some really outstanding tennis players around right now.
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Nadal is a much more complete all around player than Sampras ever was and I don't think it's even close. Sampras never bothered to adjust his game for clay and thus only has a French semis, not even finals appearance, to show for it. Everyone always gets on Rafa for being just a clay court guy, but the truth is he has 5 majors on his non-preferred surfaces, and also won an Olympic gold medal on a hardcourt. Nadal has at least 2 majors on all 3 surfaces. Nadal won a major on all 3 surfaces in one year. Not even Federer can claim those feats. Rafa is a supreme all court player, something Sampras wasn't even close to.
 
BUHusky said:
Nadal is a much more complete all around player than Sampras ever was and I don't think it's even close. Sampras never bothered to adjust his game for clay and thus only has a French semis, not even finals appearance, to show for it. Everyone always gets on Rafa for being just a clay court guy, but the truth is he has 5 majors on his non-preferred surfaces, and also won an Olympic gold medal on a hardcourt. Nadal has at least 2 majors on all 3 surfaces. Nadal won a major on all 3 surfaces in one year. Not even Federer can claim those feats. Rafa is a supreme all court player, something Sampras wasn't even close to.
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But you're just talking about clay still. Sampras wasn't as 'complete' as Nadal because he wasn't good on clay, but he was much better on the truer surfaces. Sampras would have killed Nadal on grass, and probably beaten him handily on hardcourt as well. But particularly that stretch in the 90s, he was basically unbeatable at Wimbledon, winning 7 in 8 years.
 
ITT: Anecdotes that support baseball or soccer being presented as fact. I'll contribute now.

I strongly dislike soccer, but I feel like more people watch the European leagues than when I was younger.

I don't follow MLB as much as I used to, but that may be more due to the fact I work full time, have other social obligations and I'm not a middle school or high school kid who can just go home and watch 140 games every year with my dad.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
As an early 20-something who grew up in Fairfield County and lives in NYC, I can say this is just patently false in my experience. Not one person I know has ever told me about going to or watching a lacrosse game and although there are quite a few friends of mine who are soccer fanatics (and tell EVERYONE about it), they're still heavily outweighed by baseball fans, though I will say that on average, the smaller number of soccer fans are much more diehard than the baseball fans. Total numbers though, it's not even in the same ballpark.
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If you're legitimately in your early 20s - i.e. born around 1990 - and this is actually true, you must have grown up in some bizarre alternate universe version of Fairfield County or had a bunch of outcasts for friends because I genuinely can't believe that this is true.
 
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