Tennessee

[visitingcock]

I really don't buy in to this mentality.

Sports should not just be decided by a spending contest. Sports should not just be a ritual in which the trophies and glory are handed to the fat cats by default.

So no, this is neither a case of "should" nor "does".

Should in terms of reality - not morality

 

[stwainfan]

 

[triaddukefan]

 

[EricSD]

My mood after Tennessee's beatdown:

 

[Puppy Love]

Historically, Tennessee never had to score a lot of points. They were going to out work, out tough and out rebound every team, so the other team couldn’t score, either. This years team doesn’t appear to have any of those qualities and doesn’t appear to have replaced that approach with an offense that can score a lot of points. I can’t help but wonder how much their coach has adapted to the changes in the game since she played. I think Jordan Horston is tough enough to play the old way but she might be the only one.

 

[eebmg]

Historically, Tennessee never had to score a lot of points. They were going to out work, out tough and out rebound every team, so the other team couldn’t score, either. This years team doesn’t appear to have any of those qualities and doesn’t appear to have replaced that approach with an offense that can score a lot of points. I can’t help but wonder how much their coach has adapted to the changes in the game since she played. I think Jordan Horston is tough enough to play the old way but she might be the only one.

As far as offense is concerned, you need to push players in practice to do things exactly as you want it to be with endless repetition and at real speed. I am guessing there is a lot of corner cutting and rah rah faint praise in the TN practices. Attention to detail is often best observed in well run out of bounds plays. UConn is always spot on and I imagine it is the same in the best programs but I never see any precision with TN.

One thing that I have heard the announcers say is that they do not understnd why TN does not pressure and trap alot more than they do. They have depth although it is clear that the quality was over hyped but she still throws out 11 in a game so at least run them into the ground a bit.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

You can have multiple alphas on a team, but if they can't work together then you're doomed. A lot of ball-dominant players on this squad and it shows. It spills over into defensive intensity which by any measure there is very little.

 

[Dillon77]

Did anyone catch Andraya Carter during the halftime show of the S. Carolina/Stanford game yesterday? When asked if people should be concerned about the Vols -- and remember, she's an alum -- Carter said people should be very concerned. She then concisely proceeded to skewer virtually every aspect of the Vol's play, from turnovers and team composition to wavering intensity levels on both sides of the ball.
The other commentator (was that Steph White?) mumbled something about it "being a long season," but Carter didn't back off her analysis.

Personally, I've watched parts of a few games and couldn't give you an elevator paragraph about who the Vols are right now.
What's that line about the whole being greater (or less) than the sum of its parts? Well, that takes coaching and buy-in from the team.
Maybe this team (coaches and players) can pull it together, but it's got to start happening sooner rather than later.

 

[cancontent]

Did anyone catch Andraya Carter during the halftime show of the S. Carolina/Stanford game yesterday? When asked if people should be concerned about the Vols -- and remember, she's an alum -- she said people should be very concerned. She then concisely proceeded to skewer virtually every aspect of the Vol's play, from turnovers and team composition to wavering intensity levels on both sides of the ball.
The other commentator (was that Steph White?) mumbled something about it "being a long season," but Carter didn't back off her analysis.

Personally, I've watched parts of a few games and couldn't give you an elevator paragraph about who the Vols are right now.
What's that line about the whole being greater (or less) than the sum of its parts? Well, that takes coaching and buy-in from the team.
Maybe this team (coaches and players) can pull it together, but it's got to start happening sooner rather than later.

Andraya Carter deserves more camera time whenever humanly possible in my opinion. She's doing great work regardless of the network involved. Her attention and detail and ability to break it down where it's simple to understand for casual fans is awesome.

 

[UcMiami]

You know Geno years ago talked about how recruits have changed during his career - that in the 80s and 90s HS kids played and practiced with a HS team and mostly played AAU locally with the other locals and held local practices. That evolved to helicopter AAU teams and personal trainers and the HS recruits no longer got the practice in team play, they had advanced their athleticism and individual skills but lost team concepts. Teaching those team fundamentals at both ends became paramount to developing a good college team.

I think that is something even the great Pat struggled with at the end of her career, and her successors haven't figured out. Having toughness and intensity isn't enough if you don't understand defensive rotations and help defense, and it doesn't help if you don't know when and where to set screens or make cuts on offense. And installing a 'system' isn't just drawing Xs and Os on a board, but actually teaching the concepts and the correct stances and the theory so the players can adapt as the defensive and offensive positions shift.

 

[huskeynut]

In his post game presser, Geno addressed this aspect of P5 vs G5 mid majors. And it makes sense.

The portal is literally "free agency" for college sports. A player is highly recruited/ ranked for a national power team. They sign on and don't pay their freshman year. Bingo - I go to the portal to go to a school were I will play.

Mid major/ G5 schools do not take in a lot of portal transfer. These teams recruit well initially, develop their players, build a commeradery and a chemistry of playing together for more that one year. In many cases, the coaching is better that some of the big named schools.

Transfers mean you have a short window to assimilate these players into your culture and style of play. Doesn't always work.

Listen to Wes Moore and Vic Schaffer and their post games pressers. Both reference it.

 

[SECbbfan24]

Transfers mean you have a short window to assimilate these players into your culture and style of play. Doesn't always work.

Listen to Wes Moore and Vic Schaffer and their post games pressers. Both reference it.

This is why its dangerous and probably not sustainable to live on transfers to build your team or be the foundation at least. They may assimilate down the road but it may take a long time to even get there.

With the 2023 class having zero recruits and it being senior heavy as is, they will have to go portal shopping again to help build next years group. Assuming Horston and Rickea go to the WNBA.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I think that is something even the great Pat struggled with at the end of her career, and her successors haven't figured out. Having toughness and intensity isn't enough if you don't understand defensive rotations and help defense, and it doesn't help if you don't know when and where to set screens or make cuts on offense. And installing a 'system' isn't just drawing Xs and Os on a board, but actually teaching the concepts and the correct stances and the theory so the players can adapt as the defensive and offensive positions shift.

Pat was all about effort and I recall Holly saying the same thing. During one of Warlick's less press conferences she went on and on about effort. I watched that game and commented then I thought the effort from the players was just fine but they seemed to have no plan on how to produce points and defensive stops. Games require effort, but they also require strategy.

I am someone who still thinks Harper is an upgrade from Warlick on the coaching end but her failure to recruit at the level needed for TN to sustain success is troubling. She's already made staff changes and after going shopping (successfully on paper) in the portal they came up empty again. I truly wonder what is happening there. Also while I do think she's a better game coach, the upgrade isn't that significant overall.

TN has struggled for years with stopping the outside shot when 3s are falling for their opponent and seem to have defensive lapses during games where a talented team can go on a run that has buried them on a few occasions.

 

[SECbbfan24]

TN really needs to move on from using “the summitt disciple tree” as a criteria for hiring coaches. The sooner they do that, the quicker they have a shot at bettering their program.

 

[Blakeon18]

Saw a fair amount of this one. LadyVol has athleticism/height and basketball talent.
But....????

Gonzaga is a solid team...imo...they have no business playing even [plus one] with LadyVol.
Great win for them.

 

[CBus13]

I think the worst bit was after the buzzer sounded and the game was over. Rickea Jackson stomped her feet, walked past teammate Tamari Key’s outstretched hand, and went straight off the court to the locker room. No looking at the coach, no high-fiving a teammate, and no sportsmanship of good games to Gonzaga after.

Overall, Horston had a decent game only three turnovers, granted, one turnover was her travel on that inbounds ahead by one with 14.5 seconds left was a bit of a momentum killer.

 

[Geew1992]

I think the worst bit was after the buzzer sounded and the game was over. Rickea Jackson stomped her feet, walked past teammate Tamari Key’s outstretched hand, and went straight off the court to the locker room. No looking at the coach, no high-fiving a teammate, and no sportsmanship of good games to Gonzaga after.

Overall, Horston had a decent game only three turnovers, granted, one turnover was her travel on that inbounds ahead by one with 14.5 seconds left was a bit of a momentum killer.

That’s who it was. I saw that. Wonder if she’s regretting her decision

 

[Bayareahusky]

Pat was all about effort and I recall Holly saying the same thing. During one of Warlick's less press conferences she went on and on about effort. I watched that game and commented then I thought the effort from the players was just fine but they seemed to have no plan on how to produce points and defensive stops. Games require effort, but they also require strategy.

I am someone who still thinks Harper is an upgrade from Warlick on the coaching end but her failure to recruit at the level needed for TN to sustain success is troubling. She's already made staff changes and after going shopping (successfully on paper) in the portal they came up empty again. I truly wonder what is happening there. Also while I do think she's a better game coach, the upgrade isn't that significant overall.

TN has struggled for years with stopping the outside shot when 3s are falling for their opponent and seem to have defensive lapses during games where a talented team can go on a run that has buried them on a few occasions.

i am with you in that Holly tried to mimic Pat and stress effort yet she never demanded it. Didnt sit her players down when they lacked the effort..... KJH is better than Holly agreed but i wonder.... she sure is making herself look bad.... TN defeated by OSU Indiana Gonzaga UCLA all these teams looked fluid they outrebounded TN..... they looked well put together and showed will to win

 

[Mdoggie]

Watching Tennessee makes me think they are not coached at all. Seems they do whatever they want on the court. 1 pass into the set and it breaks down to a 1 on 1 situation. No discipline No correction No continuity. Athletes but no true basketball players. Scrap it all and start over. Starting at the top. Oh and recruiting is horrible!!

 

[SECbbfan24]

I think the worst bit was after the buzzer sounded and the game was over. Rickea Jackson stomped her feet, walked past teammate Tamari Key’s outstretched hand, and went straight off the court to the locker room. No looking at the coach, no high-fiving a teammate, and no sportsmanship of good games to Gonzaga after.

Dang, that isn't good at all. Sadly, as the losses pile up moving forward, there will be more of things like this and a lot of other internal tension fueling internally.

 

[SECbbfan24]

i am with you in that Holly tried to mimic Pat and stress effort yet she never demanded it.

I apologize if this sounds dumb but I can't help but think...

I don't mean this in a bad way but this "mimic Pat" thing is a major turn off for me. I know as I saw this first hand under Nikki Fargas at LSU, all she kept stressing was trying to do things the way Pat did and it simply was NEVER going to work.

These coaches would be better off owning who they are and creating THEIR legacy and system then trying to recreate "Pat" or another coach from the past. You simply cannot recreate that. Similarly, I hope when Geno's successor takes over one day, they don't try to "recreate" Geno, they just aren't going to do that. You can hope to be as successful but I think trying to mimic styles that aren't compatible with who you are as a coach/person is not a successful recipe.

 

[amb3096]

Pat was all about effort and I recall Holly saying the same thing. During one of Warlick's less press conferences she went on and on about effort. I watched that game and commented then I thought the effort from the players was just fine but they seemed to have no plan on how to produce points and defensive stops. Games require effort, but they also require strategy.

I am someone who still thinks Harper is an upgrade from Warlick on the coaching end but her failure to recruit at the level needed for TN to sustain success is troubling. She's already made staff changes and after going shopping (successfully on paper) in the portal they came up empty again. I truly wonder what is happening there. Also while I do think she's a better game coach, the upgrade isn't that significant overall.

TN has struggled for years with stopping the outside shot when 3s are falling for their opponent and seem to have defensive lapses during games where a talented team can go on a run that has buried them on a few occasions.

Ironically, they did a great job of that for Q2-4 today after getting torched in the 1st Q. The problem is they otherwise aren't well coached. They make horrible decisions and go 1-on-3 way too much.

 

[HuskyNan]

Some UConn fans need to dial back the sophomoric humor.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

I thought Jackson and Horston played better together. Franklin was taking no prisoners. Darby can shoot, but unfortunately on the defensive end she's a liability. I think Pucket could help if she could get more PT. Overall, they need to work on getting their assists up. It's a gift to the defense when they know you have no intention of passing. You end up with high turnovers and charges. The good news is they have the ingredients.

 

[LoTrader]

Not sure I agree that TN has better athletes than the 4 teams they lost to this season. Also questionable if TN players are more skilled. In any case, it is going to take some great coaching to get TN back to winning ways, and not let this November ruin their season.

 

[SECbbfan24]

I honestly liked what Franklin brought to the table inside. She played tough and actually snagged a bit of rebounds. Key played 20 minutes and only got 1 rebound. How on earth does a 6'6 player have only ONE rebound?

 

[jonson]

Not sure I agree that TN has better athletes than the 4 teams they lost to this season. Also questionable if TN players are more skilled. In any case, it is going to take some great coaching to get TN back to winning ways, and not let this November ruin their season.

I think "more skilled" is the operative phrase here. Athletes, yes, skilled WBB players (and good coaching), not so much.

 

[DefenseBB]

Tennessee is 2-4 and those losses are to #4 Ohio State, #6 Indiana, #20 UCLA and #28 Gonzaga (who beat Louisville) so it is not like they lost to bad teams. The problem is they were over-ranked at #4 in the preseason poll and their Portal additions were and still are over hyped (Powell, Jackson, Hollingshead) and their one recruit was #11 Justine Pissott who has not looked good yet. Those expectations make it seem like they are failing badly. Add in some questionable end of game or even overall coaching and you have a disgruntled group of fans. Whether Kellie can get them to play together is an unknown and the time to gel needs to already be in process which is a "maybe".

Should this team be 2-4, no, they should probably be 3-3 or even 4-2.

 

[LwrcasefaN]

Tennessee is 2-4 and those losses are to #4 Ohio State, #6 Indiana, #20 UCLA and #28 Gonzaga (who beat Louisville) so it is not like they lost to bad teams. The problem is they were over-ranked at #4 in the preseason poll and their Portal additions were and still are over hyped (Powell, Jackson, Hollingshead) and their one recruit was #11 Justine Pissott who has not looked good yet. Those expectations make it seem like they are failing badly. Add in some questionable end of game or even overall coaching and you have a disgruntled group of fans. Whether Kellie can get them to play together is an unknown and the time to gel needs to already be in process which is a "maybe".

Should this team be 2-4, no, they should probably be 3-3 or even 4-2.

I agree that they were overranked. Question is...by how much. If losing to #20 and 28 isn't a bad loss, then at best they should have been ranked 16ish or lower. Here's why I see them as bad losses. When it comes to March and seeding, then they will need some good wins. The only ranked teams remaining on their schedule are VT (11), LSU(12) and the current ranked 1-3 teams. They could potentially end up with zero wins against a ranked team. I think they miss the tournament if this happens. They would normally have more games against ranked teams, but the SEC is in a down year.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I'm curious whether

Tennessee is 2-4 and those losses are to #4 Ohio State, #6 Indiana, #20 UCLA and #28 Gonzaga (who beat Louisville) so it is not like they lost to bad teams. The problem is they were over-ranked at #4 in the preseason poll and their Portal additions were and still are over hyped (Powell, Jackson, Hollingshead) and their one recruit was #11 Justine Pissott who has not looked good yet. Those expectations make it seem like they are failing badly. Add in some questionable end of game or even overall coaching and you have a disgruntled group of fans. Whether Kellie can get them to play together is an unknown and the time to gel needs to already be in process which is a "maybe".

Should this team be 2-4, no, they should probably be 3-3 or even 4-2.

I thought Jackson was potentially a good pickup.

Really didn't understand why bringing in Hollingshead was supposed to be a big deal for this year.