Tennessee inks a JUCO

[doggydaddy]

I still think that UConn fans care way too much about what a bunch of anonymous Internet yahoos think. And I'll never understand why people continue to read that board when they know they'll be angry at what they see there. It's not for fun because there are folks here who can rake up events from 10 years ago and still experience the full impact of their righteous indignation. It's a mystery why people want to live in a constant state of agitation - seems like a waste of energy to me.

It keeps the juices flowing.

 

[Icebear]

It keeps the juices flowing.

Are you saying you're juiced?

 

[Justavisitor]

UConn would paste the LVs if they played - I don't care who they sign this year. Just not feeling the rivalry right now.

This part right here is no guarantee. If it were truly that cut and dry, do you really think board members here would continue to talk about TN. The reality is that if they sign 2 top 10 recruits that includes a player like Kaela Davis or Russell, they are in the thick of things for years to come and competing with UConn. Even this upcoming year, UConn gets Jefferson, but a sophomore Ariel will probably be better.

Ariel with Stewart were the only players named to the all Fiba team just last year. This speaks volumes to Ariel's abilities.

At the 2 guard, there will be Hartley for UConn and Simmons for TN. Both of these players have the ability to score 20 plus on any given night. If they play as capable, they're both great players and as juniors, each will be more consistent.

At the 3, Kelly Faris for UConn and TN will have Taber Spani. Faris wins out on the defensive end hands down, but Taber wins out on the offensive end hands down.

At the 4, Stewart for UConn will probably be all world. She will be spectacular before her time at UConn is done. TN will have Burdick. Let's not forget that Burdick was a top 5 player out of high school and has plenty of skills. She no longer has to sit behind seniors. Burdick may not be the game changer that Stewart will be, but she is still a top 5 talent that will have one year experience and off season college training over Stewart.

At the 5, UConn has Dolson and TN has Harris. Out of high school, Harris was ranked higher. Harris was stuck behind seniors and didn't get the opportunity that Dolson had as a freshman, so Dolson has the experience edge hands down. Harris has proven to be a shot blocking machine and while she got in foul trouble alot last year early in the season, late in the season, she was poised and it showed on the court. Against Griner, of course she was foul prone, as was every other center that played Griner late in the season. Ask Chiney and Nneka.


TN will be weak at the post due to sheer numbers. There are no back up true centers and that's the concern, but if they all remain healthy, they have a formidable starting 5. They are guard heavy. Look at KY's rosters the past couple of years. They have done more with less. Now Elzy is at TN with those same philosophies. Look back at the Rutgers team that went to the title game in 2007. Jolette Law has done more with less using CViv's philosophy. Yes, they are thin in the post, but that team is so heavy at the guard positions and they also have some highly tauted and highly ranked players at each position, that they do stand the ability to present some challenges. Then again, they could totally flame out. WHO KNOWS?

 

[Kibitzer]

This part right here is no guarantee. If it were truly that cut and dry, do you really think board members here would continue to talk about TN. The reality is that if they sign 2 top 10 recruits that includes a player like Kaela Davis or Russell, they are in the thick of things for years to come and competing with UConn. Even this upcoming year, UConn gets Jefferson, but a sophomore Ariel will probably be better.

Ariel with Stewart were the only players named to the all Fiba team just last year. This speaks volumes to Ariel's abilities.

At the 2 guard, there will be Hartley for UConn and Simmons for TN. Both of these players have the ability to score 20 plus on any given night. If they play as capable, they're both great players and as juniors, each will be more consistent.

At the 3, Kelly Faris for UConn and TN will have Taber Spani. Faris wins out on the defensive end hands down, but Taber wins out on the offensive end hands down.

At the 4, Stewart for UConn will probably be all world. She will be spectacular before her time at UConn is done. TN will have Burdick. Let's not forget that Burdick was a top 5 player out of high school and has plenty of skills. She no longer has to sit behind seniors. Burdick may not be the game changer that Stewart will be, but she is still a top 5 talent that will have one year experience and off season college training over Stewart.

At the 5, UConn has Dolson and TN has Harris. Out of high school, Harris was ranked higher. Harris was stuck behind seniors and didn't get the opportunity that Dolson had as a freshman, so Dolson has the experience edge hands down. Harris has proven to be a shot blocking machine and while she got in foul trouble alot last year early in the season, late in the season, she was poised and it showed on the court. Against Griner, of course she was foul prone, as was every other center that played Griner late in the season. Ask Chiney and Nneka.


TN will be weak at the post due to sheer numbers. There are no back up true centers and that's the concern, but if they all remain healthy, they have a formidable starting 5. They are guard heavy. Look at KY's rosters the past couple of years. They have done more with less. Now Elzy is at TN with those same philosophies. Look back at the Rutgers team that went to the title game in 2007. Jolette Law has done more with less using CViv's philosophy. Yes, they are thin in the post, but that team is so heavy at the guard positions and they also have some highly tauted and highly ranked players at each position, that they do stand the ability to present some challenges. Then again, they could totally flame out. WHO KNOWS?

Nice try to show the glass half full. You have expressed a reasonable, if optimistic, appraisal of your Lady Vols. Let the record show that you were not only permitted to make your case but not either ridiculed or otherwise hassled here for doing so.

You are entitled to a fair hearing and I certainly hope and expect you will get it.

 

[Icebear]

Right now it is very cut and dried, never drier.

 

[EricLA]

I give justavisitor credit for doing a very glass half full scenario. but tennessee probably won't be ranked in the top 10 at any time this year and will struggle to get out of the sweet 16. they would lose to UCONN by at least 25-30 points, and possibly by 40 or more if Geno decided to run up the score. it would be a blowout of gargantuan proportions. next year has the potential to be just as bad. so i'll give you a more realistic assessment of the teams...

Doty vs. Massengale - Ariel showed in the Team USA games that she not only has the potential to be a great distributor, but also a great scorer. However, against actual college players who were sometimes 1-3 years older than her, she was inconsistent. Caroline is never going to be the player she was (or could have been) if not for her injuries. but her experience, moxy and leadership just about offsets Ariel's stronger physical gifts. i'd give the slight edge to Tennessee.

Hartley vs. Simmons - the thing about this "matchup" is that you can talk all you want about Meighan's athleticism, or her ability to "create her own shot". the problem with that is she misses most of the shots she "creates". Hartley is a better leader by a wide margin and knows when to take the shot and when to pass. there's a reason Meighan was cut from the US National team and it's her inability to coexist with other players who like to score and play better team basketball. Big edge to UCONN.

Faris vs. Spani - Taber played less games. she averaged less minutes (21 vs 29). but if you average her minutes if she had played the same minutes as Kelly it goes like this: Taber/Kelly PPG 9.1/6.2; RPG 3.6/5.2; APG 1.8/4.3; Steals/Game /6, 2.1. Anyone who thinks Taber's points production is more important than Kelly's huge advantage on rebounding, assists and steals is a complete homer. I get that fans of both schools would never "trade" one player for the other, even if they could, but Kelly is more important and does more for her team so I'll give them a break and call it even.

KML vs. Burdick - I don't care where Cierra was rated coming out of HS. she came off the bench just like KML did, but was in a different galaxy in production compared to Kaleena. i won't even go over the numbers or production. Kaleen is simply a much better player in every facet of the game. Big edge to UCONN.

Dolson vs. Harrison - They weren't in the same class coming out of HS so i'm not sure at this point what comparing their respective rankings does for anything. Harrison is a nice player, but she's not even as good as Kiah Stokes, who is UCONN's backup center. Big edge to UCONN.

Bench - Stokes, Banks, Stewart, Tuck, Jefferson vs. Williams, Carter, Jones, Graves (i'm not really counting Engeln/Buck or Phillips). HUGE HUGE advantage UCONN. they have possibly the 3 best freshmen in the nation and even tho i think Graves will be as good as Glory Johnson, she's no Breanna Stewart.

Coaching - again huge advantage to UCONN. Geno is much better at every aspect. Tennessee will rely as usual on defense and rebounding, and even there they won't be able to compete with UCONN. if Geno calls off the dogs they win by only 25. if not, they win by 40+.

and i love Nan but totally disagree with her. i'm a Red Sox fan. if the Yankees ever went thru a phase where they lost all their good players and came in last in their division, i'd love it to last every year for the rest of my life. that's just the nature of great rivalries and i'm sure most Yankee's fans feel the same way. they love beating up on the Sox every chance they get.

Do you think Duke fans were crying for UNC when they went thru the Matt Dougherty era and missed out on the NCAA's? i bet they were wishing he would stay the HC forever.

I feel the same way about Tennessee. Never mind the bad feelings generated by the things their former HC pulled, or the horrid things said about UCONN and Geno by their fans, it's simply the nature of great rivalries. I will never root for them to be great, or even good, again. but that's just me. nothing wrong with other fans wanting to give them a break...

 

[speedoo]

This part right here is no guarantee. If it were truly that cut and dry, do you really think board members here would continue to talk about TN. The reality is that if they sign 2 top 10 recruits that includes a player like Kaela Davis or Russell, they are in the thick of things for years to come and competing with UConn. Even this upcoming year, UConn gets Jefferson, but a sophomore Ariel will probably be better.

Ariel with Stewart were the only players named to the all Fiba team just last year. This speaks volumes to Ariel's abilities.

At the 2 guard, there will be Hartley for UConn and Simmons for TN. Both of these players have the ability to score 20 plus on any given night. If they play as capable, they're both great players and as juniors, each will be more consistent.

At the 3, Kelly Faris for UConn and TN will have Taber Spani. Faris wins out on the defensive end hands down, but Taber wins out on the offensive end hands down.

At the 4, Stewart for UConn will probably be all world. She will be spectacular before her time at UConn is done. TN will have Burdick. Let's not forget that Burdick was a top 5 player out of high school and has plenty of skills. She no longer has to sit behind seniors. Burdick may not be the game changer that Stewart will be, but she is still a top 5 talent that will have one year experience and off season college training over Stewart.

At the 5, UConn has Dolson and TN has Harris. Out of high school, Harris was ranked higher. Harris was stuck behind seniors and didn't get the opportunity that Dolson had as a freshman, so Dolson has the experience edge hands down. Harris has proven to be a shot blocking machine and while she got in foul trouble alot last year early in the season, late in the season, she was poised and it showed on the court. Against Griner, of course she was foul prone, as was every other center that played Griner late in the season. Ask Chiney and Nneka.


TN will be weak at the post due to sheer numbers. There are no back up true centers and that's the concern, but if they all remain healthy, they have a formidable starting 5. They are guard heavy. Look at KY's rosters the past couple of years. They have done more with less. Now Elzy is at TN with those same philosophies. Look back at the Rutgers team that went to the title game in 2007. Jolette Law has done more with less using CViv's philosophy. Yes, they are thin in the post, but that team is so heavy at the guard positions and they also have some highly tauted and highly ranked players at each position, that they do stand the ability to present some challenges. Then again, they could totally flame out. WHO KNOWS?

You are dreaming.

 

[Sakibomb25]

I think the decline of Tennessee will only continue, as it looks like the AD doesn't want to give any support to women's athletics. Of course, this is just from reading articles about the "retirement" of SID Debby Jennings... but it looks like with Pat gone, there really isn't anyone to stand up for the women's program. I bet Warlick is gone in two years - not because she's not a great coach, but because she's caught in an impossible situation. She is following an absolute legend in Summitt and her program is caught in the crossfire of office politics.

Even if Tennessee were to sign a stellar recruiting class in 2014, I just don't think the administrative support will be there to make is a success in the near future.

 

[HuskyNan]

This part right here is no guarantee. If it were truly that cut and dry, do you really think board members here would continue to talk about TN.

Thanks for discussing this in a calm, reasonable manner. I appreciate visiting fans like you.

I disagree with what you said, though. I believe UConn would have beaten Tenn by double digits this past year, before the graduation of Stricklen, Johnson et al and before UConn gets Stewart. It's not a matter of skills or individual abilities, it's about teamwork and playing within themselves. IMO, Geno is better at the second two than Holly Warlick. But then again, I'm a biased UConn fan so take my opinion FWIW.

 

[Biff]

It keeps the juices flowing.

Are you saying you're juiced?

Rumor has it he corks his bat too.....

 

[sarals24]

I think the decline of Tennessee will only continue, as it looks like the AD doesn't want to give any support to women's athletics. Of course, this is just from reading articles about the "retirement" of SID Debby Jennings... but it looks like with Pat gone, there really isn't anyone to stand up for the women's program. I bet Warlick is gone in two years - not because she's not a great coach, but because she's caught in an impossible situation. She is following an absolute legend in Summitt and her program is caught in the crossfire of office politics.

Even if Tennessee were to sign a stellar recruiting class in 2014, I just don't think the administrative support will be there to make is a success in the near future.

This part is really a shame. Pat really was a leader in terms of getting the basketball program equal (and probably more) respect and support at the university. Holly truly is in an impossible situation. Had Pat retired on her own terms I would be all for dancing on their grave, but this is just tragic for all involved.

 

[pinotbear]

Rumor has it he corks his bat too.....

well, when you reach a certain age...

 

[doggydaddy]

Justavisitor, I give you a lot of credit for your "tony on steroids" thoughts on the Lady Vols this season. I have to disagree with much of what you say and I'll do so as respecfully as possible.

Nan said - "UConn would paste the LVs if they played - I don't care who they sign this year. Just not feeling the rivalry right now."

This part right here is no guarantee. If it were truly that cut and dry, do you really think board members here would continue to talk about TN. The reality is that if they sign 2 top 10 recruits that includes a player like Kaela Davis or Russell, they are in the thick of things for years to come and competing with UConn. Even this upcoming year, UConn gets Jefferson, but a sophomore Ariel will probably be better.

Nan was only talking about this year in talking about who they sign. And the fact that board members here continue to talk about Tennessee is more to do with the current version of Tennessee and the goings on there and nothing about competativeness.

Ariel with Stewart were the only players named to the all Fiba team just last year. This speaks volumes to Ariel's abilities.
Massingale was very good in FIBA ball last year. But please don't use the fact that they were both on the all-FIBA team to upgrade Massingale to Stewarts level. We had a full year of watching Massingale in college. It's a different animal.

At the 2 guard, there will be Hartley for UConn and Simmons for TN. Both of these players have the ability to score 20 plus on any given night. If they play as capable, they're both great players and as juniors, each will be more consistent.
We also had 2 years of watching these two play in college and it's much more than being able to score 20+ points on any given night. Simmons shooting percentages and assist/to ratio is much worse than Hartley. At this point in there careers, there is no comparison and personally, I haven't seen anything from Simmons that suggests she will be more consistan just because she is a junior.

At the 3, Kelly Faris for UConn and TN will have Taber Spani. Faris wins out on the defensive end hands down, but Taber wins out on the offensive end hands down.

Well, you have to play to win. And Taber hasn't shown she can be healthy. And offense is much more than shooting. Faris has an overall better shooting percentage and passing the ball? It's not even close. 35 assists vs 167 assists. I like Spani and wanted her for UConn, but Faris wins this matchup hands down.

At the 4, Stewart for UConn will probably be all world. She will be spectacular before her time at UConn is done. TN will have Burdick. Let's not forget that Burdick was a top 5 player out of high school and has plenty of skills. She no longer has to sit behind seniors. Burdick may not be the game changer that Stewart will be, but she is still a top 5 talent that will have one year experience and off season college training over Stewart.

Not sure why are are using Stewart here as Lewis played the 4 last year. I'm sure you have heard of her. She was #1 in the same class as Burdick. Using the excuse that she sat behind seniors? Bogus in my opinion. If she was that good she would have demanded more minutes by her play. She didn't. I saw a slowish and skitterish freshman. I'm sure she will make a jump as a sophomre, but Lewis is a MUCH better player and showed that last season.

At the 5, UConn has Dolson and TN has Harris. Out of high school, Harris was ranked higher. Harris was stuck behind seniors and didn't get the opportunity that Dolson had as a freshman, so Dolson has the experience edge hands down. Harris has proven to be a shot blocking machine and while she got in foul trouble alot last year early in the season, late in the season, she was poised and it showed on the court. Against Griner, of course she was foul prone, as was every other center that played Griner
late in the season. Ask Chiney and Nneka.

Using HS rankings once you get out of the top 10 is silly. Especially when in different classes. College performance is more indicative of these two players. Last year Tennessee was DESPERATE in the post behind the oft-injured Baugh and instead of playing Harrison, they moved Johnson to the middle, making her play out of position. That told me all I needed to know about what the Tennessee coaching staff thought of Harrison. Shot blocking machine? 1 every 15 minutes. About the same as Dolson. But who did Harrison play against? The end of the opponents bench. Oh, and Stokes had 1 every 9 minutes in mostly meaningful minutes. Did Chiney and Nneka get 5 fouls in 6 minutes against Griner?

Dolson would foul out Harrison in 10 minutes based on her play last year. And Dolson played like the 2nd best center in the country for some of last year, particularly late in the season. Harrison? Not so much.

TN will be weak at the post due to sheer numbers. There are no back up true centers and that's the concern, but if they all remain healthy, they have a formidable starting 5.

No, they will be weak in the post because they don't have any experienced post players or anyone that has played the post well in college. It is even weaker because of numbers. It is wishful thinking to think that all of a sudden both Massingale and Simmons will all of a sudden shoot that much better to be considered formidable. And any team with Harrison in the middle, an inexpereinced thin post can not be considered formidable as well.

They are guard heavy. Look at KY's rosters the past couple of years. They have done more with less. Now Elzy is at TN with those same philosophies. Look back at the Rutgers team that went to the title game in 2007. Jolette Law has done more with less using CViv's philosophy.

Yes, you might be as good as Kentucky the last couple of years. Last year they ended up ranked 8th. The year before 17th. The year before 19th. The year before not ranked. And that Rutgers team had Vaughn, Ajavon, Prince and Carson on that team. I would argue that there is no one on this Tennessee team as good as that team. And now, all of a sudden, two assistant coaches are going to bring two different philosophies to a team and Warlick will change Tennessee's defense and rebounding philosophy all of a sudden?

Yes, they are thin in the post, but that team is so heavy at the guard positions and they also have some highly tauted and highly ranked players ah each position, that they do stand the ability to present some challenges. Then again, they could totally flame out. WHO KNOWS?

Well, who knows? Ok....anything can happen. Heavy at the guard position? THat is only good if you have great guards. And a lot of them. But if you look at it logically, there is no way that of these two teams meet next year in the NCAA, that UConn doesn't win by 20+ points. Probably more. We haven't even talked about the bench, with Stokes, Stewart, Tuck and Jefferson.

It's not even close, no matter how you spin it.

 

[Bestiarius]

Justavisitor, your analysis smacks of drinking the Summitt Kool Aid. It’s easy to come up with your conclusions if The Summitt is your main source of information. You must know that your board only allows comments that portray the Lady Vols in glowing terms. This is not reality.

Let’s just take one factor. Last year, your team lost 9 games. Five starters/major contributors graduated and their personal talents were recognized in the WNBA draft. Uconn lost 1 starter to graduation. Yet, you seem to feel your team will be improved next year. Is that logical?

Talk on The Summitt is that your players will work hard this summer and be much improved. Harrison will spend time in the weight room and come out next year looking like Lebron. Do you think other teams will not prepare during the off season? Besides, based on chatter on your board, it appears that not much is going on this summer (see your board thread on Rocky Top women’s league this year).

Why even mention Davis or Russell? Are you saying that if you don’t get these players your team will drop out of sight in the future? Do you see the problem with mentioning these players when you are actually signing JUCO players, and not even the ones you hoped to get. Since Davis & Russell have not signed with anyone, you could get them, but so could everyone else on their list. Is that something worth mentioning in an analysis?

We are talking about TN on this board. But it’s not because we are worried about competition. It’s the morbid fascination in watching a once great team come down to earth. A team whose fan base thinks their illustrious past guarantees future success. We’re just interested in seeing how this works out.

 

[Justavisitor]

And by the same token, your responses are coming through blue colored lenses, as expected on any fan forum. Last years' TN team played out of position most of the year and under a cloud that no other team had to deal with. There is no more coach by committee and it appears the team will finally be healthy. Time will tell, but I am willing to bet they will be much better than some here think. See ya during the season.

 

[Bestiarius]

And by the same token, your responses are coming through blue colored lenses, as expected on any fan forum. Last years' TN team played out of position most of the year and under a cloud that no other team had to deal with. There is no more coach by committee and it appears the team will finally be healthy. Time will tell, but I am willing to bet they will be much better than some here think. See ya during the season.

Surely you're not serious about wanting to bet, after the way we cleaned out the TN fans bank accounts last year.

It sure seemed as though Holly was in charge last year, and making all the decisions, with Pat just sitting on the bench. Seems close to the same scenario this coming year. You are correct on one thing - time will tell. Too bad we won't be playing y'all next year.

 

[doggydaddy]

And by the same token, your responses are coming through blue colored lenses, as expected on any fan forum. Last years' TN team played out of position most of the year and under a cloud that no other team h9ad to deal with. There is no more coach by committee and it appears the team will finally be healthy. Time will tell, but I am willing to bet they will be much better than some here think. See ya during the season.

My thoughts on Tennessee are not through blue colored lenses. And my comments on UConn, while on the optomistic side, have been proven through play not hopeful optomism.

Yes, not coach by committee, but on the other hand, no coaching by Summitt, one of the best in history. You don't think that will be a negative compared to prior years? Please......

Who played out of position last year? That was the excuse 2 years ago with no point guard. Stricklen moved back to her natural small forward. Simmons played the 2 when she was in. Bass and Massingale split the point. Baugh played the 5. Now, Johnson had to play the 5 when Johnson was out, because Harrison was incapable of playing the 5 for extended minutes. But who played it better, last years Johnson or next years Harrison? It's not even close.

How much is better? I would think the feeling on this board is between 8-12 games on the loss side and losing in the sweet 16. What is your prediction?

And the point was that UConn would beat TEnnesssee by 20+. Your arguements supporting your opinion were pretty weak.