Tennessee goes down to unranked Virginia in OT 69-64

[pap49cba]

I'm so depressed at this news.

NOT!

 

[UConnCat]

Tennessee was counting on Massengale not playing like a freshman and Simmons making a big sophomore leap. Massengale is a freshman, and Simmons hasn't made that leap. Massengale with have terrific games and mediocre ones like every talented freshman PG. And we'll have to see about Simmons. She's intense and competitive, but inconsistent.

Massengale played like a freshman today: some terrific moments but those were outnumbered by the poorly played moments. Based on today, I'd have to say that Simmons has not yet turned the corner or made the leap. She'll of course play great again, perhaps as soon as the Baylor game, but her decision-making today was very reminiscent of last year. That has to be disappointing for the coaching staff.

 

[connboy77]

Check out the box score. Massengale 2 points, Simmions 3 points. Not gonna win many games when your potential AA back-court combines for 5 points.

Didn't you hear, vol fans say those two are the best backcourt in the country!

 

[CTyankee]

It's a little early to be gloating...

But I love it!!!

At least for tonight...

 

[sarals24]

I think Pat did her a disservice by allowing her to jack up shots without running their offense (not that there is much semblance of one) last year. She was basically their first, second and third option on offense last year, and this year all of a sudden that's not the game plan? She is getting benched for playing the exact same way she did last year, she must be confused about the sudden shift in strategy.

IMO they should have reeled her in last year and let her play within the system, instead of forcing shots every possession. No wonder she hasn't improved.

 

[EricLA]

I think Pat did her a disservice by allowing her to jack up shots without running their offense (not that there is much semblance of one) last year. She was basically their first, second and third option on offense last year, and this year all of a sudden that's not the game plan? She is getting benched for playing the exact same way she did last year, she must be confused about the sudden shift in strategy.

IMO they should have reeled her in last year and let her play within the system, instead of forcing shots every possession. No wonder she hasn't improved.

it is hard to disagree with this. i'm going to attempt an analysis of the thing about that - granted it's an armchair analysis, but there you are.

it's not that Simmons was the 1st, 2nd and 3rd option in scoring last year. Simmons averaged 13.5, Stricklen 12.8, Johnson 12.0 and Bjorkland 10.3 the top 4 scorers were very close in their season average. but Simmons did by far take the most shots last year at 438 while Stricklen was 2nd at 362. over the 37 games, that's Simmons averaging 11.8 shots/game and Stricklen 9.8.

there were some games where Simmons absolutely lit it up. then there were games like the elite 8 game vs. ND where she was 1-11 with 4 TO's. tenn fans will tell you she was the starting PG and played out of position as a converted 2G. Pat had to know what she was getting when she recruited Simmons - a kid who likes to shoot the rock. but trying to play the PG spot, with the ball in her hands, i think there were times where Simmons felt like she needed/wanted to take over. my point is i don't think it's anyone's fault, but certainly not Simmons'.

when she committed, Avant was seen as one of the best players in the nation, and certainly the PG of the future for tenn. when it turned out she did not develop and was not as good as people thought/hoped, they had no choice but to let Simmons or Stricklen run the point.

at some point last year they knew Massengale was coming, and as the PG of the future, Pat didn't "need" to develop Simmons into a better PG. at least i'm guessing that was the strategy. seeing as pat's traditional offense was to chuck it up and go get the O-board, it was really no different with Simmons than it was any other year. tenn. has also traditionally been able to out-talent most teams with tenacious defense and offensive rebounding.

i guess my point is similar to your first sentence - Pat has never run a complex offense, or any kind of motion offense, and as a result, allowing Meighan to jack up shots was nothing different from teams past.

IMHO this year's senior class really crystallizes the problems at tennessee. EITHER the kids she's getting aren't nearly as highly rated as the ratings services say, or Pat does not develop the players. if you look at the WNBA stats, only Parker and Catchings have consistently been all-stars in the W. and of the 10 players they had in the W, only 2 really averaged much over 10 PPG. Lawson was 10.4. but look at the rest of their list...

Anosike, Bobbitt, Ely, Hornbuckle, Robinson, Snow, and Spencer. notwithstanding Bobbitt who was a JUCO, i think every one of those kids was top 10. some performed at expectations in college, some below. but aside from the random good year, none have been stars in the WNBA. how does that happen?

i don't really have an answer for that. when you compare that to kids like Jess Moore, Kalana Greene and Ketia Swanier, who were lower ranked than most of those tennessee recruits, but who perform at least as good as all these top 10 tennessee kids now in the W, i think the question is a fair one. is it lack of development at tennessee, or over-rating by the services for these kids while still in HS, or is a combo of the two?

 

[Kevin G]

C'mon! Are we really surprised that Tenn had another disappointing game and loses?!? I certainly am not.

NOW, with all this talk we better take care of business tomorrow night. I will be there!!

 

[semper]

I could NOT believe my eyes when I saw the headline. Incredible. I'll be looking for some analysis. Depending on how others fare, they should go down to 10.

 

[speedoo]

I think Pat did her a disservice by allowing her to jack up shots without running their offense (not that there is much semblance of one) last year. She was basically their first, second and third option on offense last year, and this year all of a sudden that's not the game plan? She is getting benched for playing the exact same way she did last year, she must be confused about the sudden shift in strategy.

IMO they should have reeled her in last year and let her play within the system, instead of forcing shots every possession. No wonder she hasn't improved.

Simmons playing however she wants is no longer the game plan, probably because the assistant coaches have a lot more authority now, and I am pretty sure they are much less inclined to live with Simmons' proclivity to do nothing but jack up shots and turn the ball over.

 

[magical2]

what a stunner. Tennessee will drop for sure in the polls. probably stay in the top 10 still but... bad bad loss

Wow,I am trying to figure out how this falls into the questions I have had about them going into the season! #1 was injuries and was Baugh really back to pre injury status,#2 was the # of quality guards if they had injury or poor games,#3 they are playing with a short bench/not alot of players. Baugh did not play?,they got 5 points from Ariel and Simmons,I had expected them to be getting much more from Burdick. They did get performances from IMHO SR AAs Strickland,Johnson,
and an Excellent JR in Spani,but this is a big upset. They should drop out of the top 10,but doubtful they will. VERY INTERESTING

 

[uconn_nyc]

what a stunner. Tennessee will drop for sure in the polls. probably stay in the top 10 still but... bad bad loss

Disciplined teams with experienced guards have performed well against UT's superior athleticism and talent. For instance, Xavier in the sweet 16 I believe, a few years back.

 

[Tonyc]

TN will temporarily stay in the top 10. They have Stanford and Baylor and they'll be lucky to stay in the top 15.

 

[Ruffian75]

There is one reason and one reason only why TN has underachieved the last three years ...Their coaching staff.

 

[ThisJustIn]

There is one reason and one reason only why TN has underachieved the last three years ...Their coaching staff.

cause three years ago it was totally different.

 

[sarals24]

I think also Tennessee has consistently recruited players who were bigger and stronger. They could win games by sheer size and talent. The game has caught up with them, and it's no longer possible to win by that alone.

Obviously, the parity still isn't there yet and they will still win 25 plus game a year, maybe more. But with younger coaches who have studied the game and more and more true players rather than just athletes coming out of college, well...I'd say Tennessee needs to inject some youth and new coaching strategies into their program.

Geno and co have stayed on top because he actually develops his players, plus he recruits players that fit into his system, rather than the biggest, strongest rebounders out there.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

It's a little early to be gloating...

But I love it!!!

At least for tonight...

Yes, I agree. This may be an aberration. I've been impressed with how
Spani has come into her own this season. She gives the LVs some real
firepower.

I'll be surprised if Tennessee falls below 6th in the next polls, and I
would expect those polls to contain an undefeated UVa team.

 

[magical2]

Disciplined teams with experienced guards have performed well against UT's superior athleticism and talent. For instance, Xavier in the sweet 16 I believe, a few years back.

You hit an element right on the head

 

[Zorro]

Poet Lariat sez;

The monitors all get annoyed
When we exhibit schadenfreude,
But still, I cannot help but grin
To see the LV foiled again!

 

[Phil]

There is one reason and one reason only why TN has underachieved the last three years ...Their coaching staff.

I don't buy it.

 

[Icebear]

I buy it, Phil, to the point that TN for a long time now has not been able to find and/or implement an offensive structure that shows any sign of organization. We all know that Pat has contacted NBA types and Harry P. and probably others but nothing in their structure of play shows anything resembling a consistency of organization and play. This indicates an awareness of the problem, it not success in installing it. When TN won with Parker they basically got the ball to Parker and ocassionally found a kick out shooter, but nothing resembling the Triangle offense or a persistent motion offense.

 

[speedoo]

I don't buy it.

So it's all on the players then? The coaches bear no responsibility for choosing them, losing them (Avant, Brewer, etc.) developing them, preparing them for games, game tactics, etc.?

 

[intlzncster]

The last few years their biggest problem has been no point guard. Never thought Pat was a good offensive coach, but without a PG, even a brilliant offense stagnates.

 

[EricLA]

I buy it, Phil, to the point that TN for a long time now has not been able to find and/or implement an offensive structure that shows any sign of organization. We all know that Pat has contacted NBA types and Harry P. and probably others but nothing in their structure of play shows anything resembling a consistency of organization and play. This indicates an awareness of the problem, it not success in installing it. When TN won with Parker they basically got the ball to Parker and ocassionally found a kick out shooter, but nothing resembling the Triangle offense or a persistent motion offense.

Tenn has a plethora of HS AA's on their team. going back a bit, McMahon was top 15, Bjorkland #2, Baugh #5. Johnson, Gray, Stricklen, and Manning all top 15. Spani #13. Simmons top 5 in a few ratings services, and same with Burdick and Massengale. really the only team who has recruited better than Tenn is UCONN.

my point is Tenn certainly has had the "horses". the 2 biggest glaring problems? No PG recruited (in fact, mostly all wings and post players), and coaching. some folks on the Tenn board threw the kids under the bus talking about lack of cohesion and fire in their guts (mental toughness). but you are right - the fact remains that Pat and her staff are the ones who teach offense and defense, and who decided to bench Simmons in favor of Bass.

Let me rephrase that - Pat is the one who generally throws the kids under the bus. their fans are now starting to blame the coaches with "deer in headlights" and "lack of offense" comments.

 

[JS]

Poet Lariat sez;

The monitors all get annoyed
When we exhibit schadenfreude,
But still, I cannot help but grin
To see the LV foiled again!

You’d best avoid old shoddy Freud,
that shameful little shrink.
Though private thoughts may be akin
when LVs take it on the chin,
mind what we say, not what we think.

 

[Ruffian75]

I don't buy it.

Phil, let me expand on the coaching staff. I think it is vital that a team have at least one or two younger assistants on their coaching staff. At TN, Nikki was an assistant that could relate to 18 to 22 year old girls on the level of a big sister. I don't think it is any coincidence that her departure after the Parker years can't be linked to the past three years of underachievement on the NCAA Tourney stage. Everyone on the present staff is near 50 or over 50, including the trainer.

When Tanya and Jamelle left, Geno replaced them with two younger assistants, Shea and Marisa. Pat replaced Al Brown with another old guy, Dean Lockwood, and then brought back a relic in Mickie DeMoss. There is also no black female presence on the TN staff.

All of the Tennessee coaches are obviously good, but there is no youth to bridge the gap between the players and staff. I am sure that Shea and Marisa probably share Geno jokes with the current players. I don't see that happening with Dean, Holly and Mickie and the current Vol roster.