TENN frosh throwing down the gauntlet

[Carnac]

I petty much agree with your post (FWIW)- and well said by the way... I just wanted to add - when DD said she was coming back to college for her SR year, Tenn fans nearly wet themselves with excitement because she was "the best player on the team". And Cooper coming back, well she was THE answer at the PG spot given how "extraordinarily talented" she was/is. They also lost Middleton.

Now we are told the team is better off without them, and that somehow starting 2-3 freshmen along with Russell and Nared is a sure path to at least the elite 8 and maybe further? It's not impossible, but there are far too many other talented teams out there with better coaching who I'd say have a better chance. Time will tell for sure, but I'm hoping for a big time flame out and frustrating freshmen struggles as they realize the coaching leaves much to be desired...

With all the talk about possibly starting 2-3 freshmen, one thing no one has mentioned yet and that is that inevitable "freshman wall". If 2-3 freshen do in fact start, they will ALL hit the wall at some point, probably about the same time. Then what?

Does Holly let them play through it, or sit them down until they recover? If she chooses to bench them (she may not have any choice if their play deteriorates beyond an acceptable level), any chemistry the starters would have established would be broken when their replacements take the floor. Will that dynamic cost them any wins? Starting 3 freshmen is risky at best, regardless of their talent level.

 

[Alydar]

With all the talk about possibly starting 2-3 freshmen, one thing no one has mentioned yet and that is that inevitable "freshman wall". If 2-3 freshen do in fact start, they will ALL hit the wall at some point, probably about the same time. Then what?

Does Holly let them play through it, or sit them down until they recover? If she chooses to bench them (she may not have any choice if their play deteriorates beyond an acceptable level), any chemistry the starters would have established would be broken when their replacements take the floor. Will that dynamic cost them any wins? Starting 3 freshmen is risky at best, regardless of their talent level.

Excellent point. And another hard choice for Warlick is how much to play Russell and Nared. If they spend Jan & Feb playing 32+ mins a game how much will they have left when the SEC & NCAA tournaments roll around. But if they are both on the court for 20 min/game and 5 min/game as the only experienced player on the court then there will be 10 mins/game being played by what's left. And what's left is a post coming from JC competition and off knee surgery, a player who averaged 15 min/game and 4.7 pts last year and 4 freshmen.

The stars need to align perfectly for Tenn this coming year.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Don't think Holly has much of a choice .... she has to go with the freshmen...... can't be any worse than what the last few years have brought....

It will be interesting down there..... and the SEC i will be interested in seeing not only Carolina and Ms State, but also the new regime at Vanderbilt....

 

[LouS]

BAD IDEA...I have no ill will for the Tenn freshman ~BUT~ that sounded like a little challenge directed at the Uconn freshman.
Again I say "BAD IDEA"

 

[Tonyc]

Tenn has lacked leadership for a very long time. It doesnt matter how many great players and team has it comes down to leadership respect and discipline. This is where Tenn is lacking. Star players run the program not Holly. I know this for a fact. So all the hoopla about practicing hard on their own is great but if Tenn doesnt change their coaching Tenn will continue to do what theyve been doing for the past umteen years.

Stop and think if Oregon had DD Russell and Nared last year. Another point how good would Tenn be if they had the Oregon coach coaching them? As far as practicing. If you keep practicing offense and not defense your doomed. If you are not taught, coached, and tweaked you have nothing to practice but what youve been practicing for years. To get better you have to improve and to improve you have to be coached, taught and tweaked, then you must practice it til you cant get it wrong, until it becomes reflexive so you dont have to think about it. That goes with almost anything you do in life. You have to know what to do instinctively. Tenn does not have that coaching and therefore will not get much better.

As much talent as DD has she didnt know what to do and the coaches didnt teach her and show her what to do. Lack of respect discipline and knowledge by the coaches is the reason. Until the Tenn coaching staff can gain the respect of the players which comes from discipline and hard work Tenn will not change. Theyve been a non factor and they will continue to be a non factor until the administration makes the necessary changes. Will that happen I dont think so because the donors donate and care about Tenn Football not the Lady Vols. The monies go to football and that will not change.

 

[meyers7]

She was pretty snide and said UConn gets all the best because of the history, kids are pretty much guaranteed USA team membership "and more." Let's face it there is no love hate relationship between Candace and Geno. If I can find it again I'll post it. Here you go:



May want to back it up 30 seconds to get the lead in. She goes on to spew total drivel about "back in her day" what made Tenn so great was because they bested a lot of great teams and it isn't like that today. Delusional. BTW for you youngsters CP outpouted DD on the court if she didn't get what she wanted on the court; great talent but really too, too full of herself.

Well as they like to say....

 

[chrissaran]

If Holly can't control her players, then she shouldn't be the coach. Have you seen any player that Geno couldn't control? Samarie Walker didn't stay long, did she?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

If Holly can't control her players, then she shouldn't be the coach. Have you seen any player that Geno couldn't control? Samarie Walker didn't stay long, did she?

I wouldn't use the word "control", but there was one player of tremendous potential, largely unrealized, who puzzled the heck out of a lot of us and surely vexed Geno. She was like the little girl with a curl, right in the middle of her forehead. She never made "the leap." Who am I talking about?

 

[Charliebball]

from what I can tell Holly is a very nice person, just not a very good coach.............with this top ranked recruiting class she probably has two years maximum to get them into the final eight as a minimum otherwise I think she'll be replaced

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I have wondered if that freshman class of Tenn's was sort of self-built ala DD's freshman class at UNC. Nared can provide leadership but Russell will revert to form under Holly's regime; of course, using the word regime is giving Holly too much credit. I expect the PG situation to continue to be a mess, pretty much forcing a continued committee perimeter passing until someone makes a desperation pass inside or Russell drifts out or there is a buzzer desperation chuck.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

from what I can tell Holly is a very nice person, just not a very good coach...with this top ranked recruiting class she probably has two years maximum to get them into the final eight as a minimum otherwise I think she'll be replaced

For thirty years Holly had to be a good listener with a clip board and a sense of organization and know how to follow the tall person around. She didn't have to talk and she didn't have to think. Any questions?

 

[vtcwbuff]

She was on first take, I believe. And was asked about UCONNs dominance. Her response....UCONN always gets the best players. Unfortunately no one asked said Tenn had the #1 recruiting class this year. Maryland had it last year. And Baylor the year before??

I agree with Parker. UConn does indeed get the best players. Just not necessarily the best recruiting class.

 

[SVCBeercats]

I'm actually a lot more optimistic for this upcoming season without Diamond/Te'a on the roster. Less egos and more humble players on the roster. Great reports early on about the freshmen and I get the vibe that players on this year's team feel like they have something to prove and are more team oriented as a result. If the team stays healthy, develops chemistry and the freshmen are as good as advertised, Tennessee could be much improved. A lot of it will boil down to coaching though which is a scary thought..

Agree wholeheartedly! TENN has a much better chance of achieving excellent results without Deshields and Cooper. There are team players and street ball players. Team players win championships; street ball players do not. Witness Allen Iverson and Carmelo Anthony.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I'm actually a lot more optimistic for this upcoming season without Diamond/Te'a on the roster. Less egos and more humble players on the roster. Great reports early on about the freshmen and I get the vibe that players on this year's team feel like they have something to prove and are more team oriented as a result. If the team stays healthy, develops chemistry and the freshmen are as good as advertised, Tennessee could be much improved. A lot of it will boil down to coaching though which is a scary thought..

None of that will matter. UTenn will continue to struggle until or unless the coaching staff learns how to teach guard play.

 

[Geew1992]

I agree with Parker. UConn does indeed get the best players. Just not necessarily the best recruiting class.

I don't think they get the best players. I think they get the best players that fit their program

 

[stwainfan]

I think how Tennessee does depends on a few things.
No major injuries.
How the freshman do.
How much can Green help in the post.
Also communicating and leadership among the players.

 

[Rixxx]

We've all heard the adage, Offense wins games, Defense wins championships. If TN is counting on freshman players, they better know how to play college defense.
I remember Cooper's freshman year and how she struggled. The freshman wall may be approached earlier than later. Thank goodness for OOC competition.

 

[vtcwbuff]

We've all heard the adage, Offense wins games, Defense wins championships. If TN is counting on freshman players, they better know how to play college defense.
I remember Cooper's freshman year and how she struggled. The freshman wall may be approached earlier than later. Thank goodness for OOC competition.

I think the Auriemma quote is something like "defense wins games, offense simply determines the final score"

 

[EricSD]

If Holly can't control her players, then she shouldn't be the coach. Have you seen any player that Geno couldn't control? Samarie Walker didn't stay long, did she?

Samaie's departure had zero to do with being "unable to be controlled by Geno". It had almost everything to do with personal issues for her. That's all I can say on the board in an open forum.

 

[bballnut90]

None of that will matter. UTenn will continue to struggle until or unless the coaching staff learns how to teach guard play.

This is what has me so conflicted about how I'm hoping this season goes....on one hand, as a fan I hope UT has a great season and Russell/Nared leave on a high note. The downside is that likely gives Holly more time, and I have 0 confidence that she'll ever make Tennessee a title contender....so another bad year could mean a new coach on board which would be fantastic.

Thinking about the immediate season ahead, I don't think Tennessee can challenge for a title but they'll be a lot better than they've been the last 2 years. In the 2 seasons that Cooper/Deshields were on the roster, Tennessee had 2 of the worst seasons in program history despite having Final Four caliber talent. Something just seemed really off during those 2 years...and I'm hoping with their departures, the LVs will be more on track and play better basketball. I don't see Tennessee returning to prominence under Holly, but if they can be a Final Four threat like they were the first 3 years under Holly, it will be a major upgrade from the past two seasons.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I don't think they get the best players. I think they get the best players that fit their program

Plagiarist!

I don't think they get the best players. I think they get the best players that fit their program

 

[Bayareahusky]

Tenn has lacked leadership for a very long time. It doesnt matter how many great players and team has it comes down to leadership respect and discipline. This is where Tenn is lacking. Star players run the program not Holly. I know this for a fact. So all the hoopla about practicing hard on their own is great but if Tenn doesnt change their coaching Tenn will continue to do what theyve been doing for the past umteen years.

Stop and think if Oregon had DD Russell and Nared last year. Another point how good would Tenn be if they had the Oregon coach coaching them? As far as practicing. If you keep practicing offense and not defense your doomed. If you are not taught, coached, and tweaked you have nothing to practice but what youve been practicing for years. To get better you have to improve and to improve you have to be coached, taught and tweaked, then you must practice it til you cant get it wrong, until it becomes reflexive so you dont have to think about it. That goes with almost anything you do in life. You have to know what to do instinctively. Tenn does not have that coaching and therefore will not get much better.

As much talent as DD has she didnt know what to do and the coaches didnt teach her and show her what to do. Lack of respect discipline and knowledge by the coaches is the reason. Until the Tenn coaching staff can gain the respect of the players which comes from discipline and hard work Tenn will not change. Theyve been a non factor and they will continue to be a non factor until the administration makes the necessary changes. Will that happen I dont think so because the donors donate and care about Tenn Football not the Lady Vols. The monies go to football and that will not change.

As usual spot on Tony.... I have been saying for a long while that the Lady Vol players have no respect for the coaches... most notably Holly.... there was that famous preseason quote by Massengale when she was entering her senior year.... something to the effect that they are going to have to listen to the coaches that season...... and that lasted not even through the first game....

Diamond did what she wanted..... any straying off course against the grain of what coaches wanted was not met with any discipline....... players know they can rule the roost....

Any semblance of success Tennessee achieves will be due to how Holly and coaching staff teach the team in fundamentals and so much more.

 

[EricSD]

Kids learn pretty quick if a coach is more of a "demander" or a "suggester". For all that Pat never really taught offense, she had a level of effort that she required from her players, and if they did not live up to her expectations, they would feel her wrath (didn't she famously force her players to wash their own uniforms after a particularly poor game performance?). I get the feeling that Holly is much less a forceful personality and more of a entreater/cajoler/inveigler type of personality...

 

[vtcwbuff]

Samaie's departure had zero to do with being "unable to be controlled by Geno". It had almost everything to do with personal issues for her. That's all I can say on the board in an open forum.

Eric - Walker's departure was certainly due to personal issues. Nonetheless you can't dismiss the reports of "toxic in the locker room."

 

[EricSD]

Eric - Walker's departure was certainly due to personal issues. Nonetheless you can't dismiss the reports of "toxic in the locker room."

What reports? Was that rumor and innuendo, or did Geno, CD, or some of the players say she was toxic?

 

[jsloanjr]

The truth hurts and I hope all UT players do well this and every year. UCONN will dominate again this year and for the next 5 years or more.....Get use to it. WCBB..

 

[RockyMTblue2]

What reports? Was that rumor and innuendo, or did Geno, CD, or some of the players say she was toxic?

UConn: Samarie Walker’s Departure Leaves Many Astonished

Samarie Walker Tries To Clear Air About Leaving UConn Women's Program

Samarie Walker switch? May not be so crazy. - fairgamenews.com

She was an impact player for Kentucky, but the question always was who is showing up with what attitude/ effort level.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Eric - Walker's departure was certainly due to personal issues. Nonetheless you can't dismiss the reports of "toxic in the locker room."

Any number of people in that locker room had every reason to be POed, but I do not recall a Deep Throat. Still, my recall is consistent with yours, that the media "buzz" was she was a drag on the team and its goals.

PS. This "digression" has us in nearly mid-season form. Must be a result of the Italy trip.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Kids learn pretty quick if a coach is more of a "demander" or a "suggester". For all that Pat never really taught offense, she had a level of effort that she required from her players, and if they did not live up to her expectations, they would feel her wrath (didn't she famously force her players to wash their own uniforms after a particularly poor game performance?). I get the feeling that Holly is much less a forceful personality and more of a entreater/cajoler/inveigler type of personality...

Yes that was the success of Pat wasn't it.... she absolutely would not tolerate anything but full effort from her players..... all those videos from the locker room and bench with Pat in players faces asking them if they wanted to walk home etc.... She was uber competitive all the way.... and I respected her for that

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Kids learn pretty quick if a coach is more of a "demander" or a "suggester". For all that Pat never really taught offense, she had a level of effort that she required from her players, and if they did not live up to her expectations, they would feel her wrath (didn't she famously force her players to wash their own uniforms after a particularly poor game performance?). I get the feeling that Holly is much less a forceful personality and more of a entreater/cajoler/inveigler type of personality...

Could be she was Pat's Mutt to Pat the Jeff. I forget where Mickey DeMoss fell in all that dynamic. I seem to recall her being very active in in game huddles. The whole Mickey not wanting to be a head coach thing puzzles me to this day, though I respect people who are content to be in a second banana role, even if a tall, elegant second banana. As Geno has made so plain, to his undying credit, Geno couldn't be Geno without CD.