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Tenn at Ky

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Sonny44 said:
Too bad there isn't a way both teams could lose.
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I thought I was watching Rutgers/Syracuse. I am getting really tired of watching these defensive teams like Rutgers, Syracuse, G'town, and Kentucky. Does anyone teach offense anymore?
 
Sonny44 said:
Too bad there isn't a way both teams could lose.
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If you saw the last 10 minutes of the 1st half, both teams tried their darnedest.

Though I guess we shouldn't throw too many stones given the offensive debacles we've had in our Stanford games.
 
vowelguy said:
Yeah, the quality of the opponent is irrelevant.
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Yeah and I guess having a team loaded with upper classmen especially a senior class with NO talent has nothing to do with the fact that they should of won those games. Uh, unranked Virginia is certainly a hard one to forget. Do I think they are a top 10 team?...Yes! I guess it is more of a disappointment given their talent
 
Ruffian75 said:
Gonna be some movement in the 5 to 10 range. My guess....1 Baylor, 2 ND, 3 CT, 4 Stanford, 5 Duke, 6 Kentucky 7 Maryland, 8 Tennessee, 9 Rutgers, 10 Miami.
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Hard to argue with that list. I'm no longer convinced that MD is better than TN, but don't think I could make a persuasive case one way or the other.
 
Kevin G said:
Yeah and I guess having a team loaded with upper classmen especially a senior class with NO talent has nothing to do with the fact that they should of won those games. Uh, unranked Virginia is certainly a hard one to forget. Do I think they are a top 10 team?...Yes! I guess it is more of a disappointment given their talent
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I keep seeing disparaging remarks about Virginia. If I could mention a few things?

Virginia is now 14-4 (last year the Cavs were 10-8 after 18 games). None of the 14 wins, outside of Tenn, are to great teams but this is a team that's in its first year under a new coach. The four losses are to:
- Texas (early, on a neutral court, by 26. May have been a letdown game after the Tenn win)
- Cal (neutral court, by 9)
- Duke (in Durham, by 11)
- North Carolina (at home, by 5 in 2OT)

The new Virginia coach, Joanne Boyle, first gained prominence by making A10 team Richmond relevant in wcbb, going 23-8 before being poached to coach at Cal. Remember them? UConn met the #13 Golden Bears in the NCAA tournament 2009 when Cal had the fabulous Alexis Grey-Lawson, Devenei Hampton and Ashley Walker. Anyway, my point is that Boyle is a darn good coach in her first season at Virginia. You would expect the season to be uneven given that the players needed to adjust to Boyle and vice versa but the Cavs have done as well could be hoped for at this point. As for the Tennessee win, it's not like the LVs got beat by Seton Hall with Phyllis Mangina as coach so I'm not sure the disparaging remarks are called for.
 
Kevin G said:
I dont see how Tenn can still be in the top 10 after suffering their 4th loss
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to be fair, the only "bad" loss was the UVA loss, which was bad by tennessee standards, even tho UVA is a better team this year... however they do have wins over teams hovering around the top 10 in Rutgers and Miami. so do you move Tenn below them even tho they beat those teams? i think that's the dilemma at this point. i agree in theory, a 4 loss team has no business in the top 10, but do you penalize them for the number of losses, or look more closely at who they lost to and who they beat?

losing to Stanford, Baylor, and Kentucky - all teams in the top 7 - is not bad at all. i don't disagree with you and would probably put them at about #10 right now. if, as expected, the lose to ND, probably drop them down to 13 or so.
 
vowelguy said:
So if UConn loses 2 more times to ND, but wins the rest of its games, you'd drop us out of the top 10?
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seriously? you read the entire post but took that out of it? good grief. you left out the first part of my sentence where i started it with "in theory..."

Tennessee is 12-4 at this point. certainly a record of a top 25 team, but not a top 10 team. if UCONN ends the season at 26-4, that's a far cry from Tennessee's 12-4 record, and UCONN probably hasn't lost a game to an unranked opponent in this century. and by the way it would be different if the 4 losses had come from Baylor, ND, UCONN and Stanford, but they did not.

if tennessee loses to Kentucky 2 more times in addition to ND, you keep them in the top 10?
 
doggydaddy said:
Losing to North Carolina in any fashion is not something to use to make Viriginia look good.
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Right, but VA is still a team trying to find itself. At last it was 2 OTs :-)
 
i realize some will disagree, but at some point you have to drop tennessee with 4 losses. i get part of it's about who they lost to and who they beat, and even tho i can see why rankings might keep them at 7 or 8, i'd put it like this...

  1. Baylor
  2. ND
  3. UCONN
  4. Stanford
  5. Duke
  6. Kentucky
  7. Miami
  8. Rutgers
  9. Tennessee
  10. Maryland
yeah i get that some may not want to put them in behind teams they beat, but the RU game was close and Miami was early. i think losing to ND drops them out of the top 10...
 
No way Tenn falls below Rutgers, IMHO. Not sure about Maryland, either.

RU lacks spectacular wins, even though both losses were good. And assuming we beat Louisville this weekend, that isn't spectacular either.

Incidently, without research, I would say that RU often goes through solid seasons without spectacular wins, or has seasons with spectacular wins combined with WTF losses. Can't say I understand it, but I think it affects seeding a good deal.
 
trb123 said:
Who has the better shot at a #2 seed this year - TN or KY?
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Wait till the SEC season progresses.
Currently, mention was made of Lady Vol #1 SOS on telecast, that helps if they don't get too many more losses.
Georgia, LSU, even Vandy games will or should be competitive (maybe even SC although I doubt it) and an upset by one of them could well affect seeding.
 
ericsandiego said:
seriously? you read the entire post but took that out of it? good grief. you left out the first part of my sentence where i started it with "in theory..."
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I saw that, I'm just not familiar with this theory.

if tennessee loses to Kentucky 2 more times in addition to ND, you keep them in the top 10?
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Depends entirely on what other teams do.

I'm curious who these 10 teams are that are more deserving of the top 10 right now than TN.
Miami? Which lost to Tenn.
Maryland? Which lost to Miami.
Duke? Which also lost to the Kentucky team you derided last night.
Rutgers? Which lost to Tenn at home.

Based on performance so far, I can find 5, maybe 6, teams I'd rank above them. Nowhere near 10.
 
vowelguy said:
I saw that, I'm just not familiar with this theory.



Depends entirely on what other teams do.

I'm curious who these 10 teams are that are more deserving of the top 10 right now than TN.
Miami? Which lost to Tenn.
Maryland? Which lost to Miami.
Duke? Which also lost to the Kentucky team you derided last night.
Rutgers? Which lost to Tenn at home.

Based on performance so far, I can find 5, maybe 6, teams I'd rank above them. Nowhere near 10.
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i gave my list of who i thought should be in the top 10 and what order they should be. clearly you disagree. would not surprise me if you were one of those stating tennessee deserves a 1 bid. oh well. and find me another team with 4 losses after 16 games who was in the top 10 - in the history of rankings... with one of those losses being to a team who is still unranked at this point. do some homework and then come back and have an intelligent discussion instead of being dismissive. and by the way i'd put tennessee at #9 at this point.
 
Unfortunately, Vowelguy has a point - no one is clammoring to be a top 10 team.

As everyone says time and time again, there is a gap between the top and the next tier. Unfortunately, after that it is unclear. Most seasons, I would see Tennessee dropping - and they will for sure with another loss - but for now, not so much simply because no one else is showing themselves to be deserving.
 
FYI, except for the tail end, I agree with Eric's rankings. I would probably put Tennessee 8, RU 10 and puzzle over 7 and 9.
 
ericsandiego said:
i gave my list of who i thought should be in the top 10 and what order they should be.
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I had not seen it when I posted my message.

and find me another team with 4 losses after 16 games who was in the top 10 - in the history of rankings...
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I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

The only issue is whether there are 10 teams that you'd rank above Tenn. And despite your original statement, not even you can find 10 such teams.

So I guess you think a team with 4 losses, including to an unranked team, CAN be ranked in the top 10. Or the top 9.
 
vowelguy said:
I had not seen it when I posted my message.



I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

The only issue is whether there are 10 teams that you'd rank above Tenn. And despite your original statement, not even you can find 10 such teams.

So I guess you think a team with 4 losses, including to an unranked team, CAN be ranked in the top 10. Or the top 9.
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well it pretty much has everything to do with it since you took the time to take a swipe at my comment "in theory". not sure what your point or problem is. but hey, i've certainly noticed some on here like to argue for the sake of arguing. clearly you do not read an entire post, or even an entire sentence before you start criticizing. if took the time to bother to read my original post, it said...

"so do you move Tenn below them even tho they beat those teams? i think that's the dilemma at this point. i agree in theory, a 4 loss team has no business in the top 10, but do you penalize them for the number of losses, or look more closely at who they lost to and who they beat?"

so instead of having any kind of intelligent discussion, you took the low road and decide to mock me (or whatever word you want to use). oh well.
 
Sorry you feel that way, eric.
I just fundamentally reject the notion that number of losses is a significant data point on its own. So I dont see why it ever enters the discussion. (You'll rarely, if ever, hear MCBB analysts talk about a team's # of losses.)

Rankings should be, in my opinion, based on the relative strength of the teams based both on who the teams have beaten and lost to. If records alone were important, then Colorado would've been ranked in the top 10 after their 13-0 start.

This all strikes me as the flip side of the argument of the Orange folks who relentlessly argue about SOS. I'm sure it's a coincidence that TN folks talk about SOS and their team typically has a high SOS, and that UConn folks talk about # of losses and their team typically has few losses.

For me, it's the intersection of the two - who you played and who you beat - that are the relevant criteria.
 
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