OT: Teachers of Boneyard...Back to School Time

[temery]

And we wonder why our education system sucks and the best and brightest college grads aren't thinking of teaching for a millisecond.

Honestly, I don't see most teaching positions needing the best and brightest. I worked with a dozen or so Ivy League grads and they were among the worst teachers I've come across.

Two of the best teachers I had were at a vocational school. Neither graduated high school. They were former military and were SeaBees in WWII and Korea.

Elementary teachers, especially at the younger grades, take a special kind of person, not an advanced degree.

I have two master Master's Degrees and a CAGS. I learned next to nothing in the Master's and CAGS in education.

My student teaching advisor had never been in a classroom. I had one teacher for several classes. He had a PhD, but never worked with kids outside a college setting.

Massachusetts requires continuing education, and my district paid 2/3rds of tuition, and thousands more for each degree. That's the only reason most teachers I worked with got advanced degrees.

 

[M.S.G.]

The trend that I see (and have been a victim of) in Connecticut and Massachusetts is that districts are so tight with their purse strings, for a variety of reasons - not getting as much from the State or the fed as they had normally gotten in past years, or decades.

Rather than hiring the most qualified person, they choose a 23 year old right out of college because they can start them at bottom step and hopefully provide them the on the job training and mentoring to make it work. To comment on a post above, I think that these advanced degrees and certification programs are mostly bogus. I think you either have it or you don't, grad school isn't going to improve that. I've worked with so many talented people, men and women who were leagues more bright than I yet they can't handle a classroom full of kids no matter the level.

I changed schools after 2 months this year, went to a school that I was a finalist at over the summer - who chose a cheaper option over me. As it turned out, another teacher had left after the first day of school and they immediately started moving money around to try and get me there. Took almost 2 months for them to get it straight, but it happened. He's a REALLY good kid, but I hear his classes everyday, the way the kids talk to him because he's younger is not okay with me, the noise and the chaos is tough to hear. Whereas, I was warned that I was walking into a tough set of classes - and they've been angels. Sure one tough class gives me a run for my money but I have 15 years of experience and patience to work off of to keep it under control.

Long story short, the trend of hiring 23 year olds over veterans because districts can't manage paying teachers 30k more is embarrassing. We're talking 30k not 100. I'm just glad I was able to get to my utopia before I cost too much, I thank my lucky stars every day.

 

[husky429]

The trend that I see (and have been a victim of) in Connecticut and Massachusetts is that districts are so tight with their purse strings, for a variety of reasons - not getting as much from the State or the fed as they had normally gotten in past years, or decades.

Rather than hiring the most qualified person, they choose a 23 year old right out of college because they can start them at bottom step and hopefully provide them the on the job training and mentoring to make it work. To comment on a post above, I think that these advanced degrees and certification programs are mostly bogus. I think you either have it or you don't, grad school isn't going to improve that. I've worked with so many talented people, men and women who were leagues more bright than I yet they can't handle a classroom full of kids no matter the level.

I changed schools after 2 months this year, went to a school that I was a finalist at over the summer - who chose a cheaper option over me. As it turned out, another teacher had left after the first day of school and they immediately started moving money around to try and get me there. Took almost 2 months for them to get it straight, but it happened. He's a REALLY good kid, but I hear his classes everyday, the way the kids talk to him because he's younger is not okay with me, the noise and the chaos is tough to hear. Whereas, I was warned that I was walking into a tough set of classes - and they've been angels. Sure one tough class gives me a run for my money but I have 15 years of experience and patience to work off of to keep it under control.

Long story short, the trend of hiring 23 year olds over veterans because districts can't manage paying teachers 30k more is embarrassing. We're talking 30k not 100. I'm just glad I was able to get to my utopia before I cost too much, I thank my lucky stars every day.

My district is probably unique in that we're hiring those 23-year-olds at step 6 so it makes it harder for them to leave the district. Our turnover is terrible even still. Shoot, I got hired at 6th-year top step with a 10k stipend and I've taught for 10 years and don't have a sixth-year. I'm not a teacher technically--I'm in a quasi-admin role, but until I get my 092, I'm on the teacher contract. And if I decide to go back to the classroom, they still have to pay me top step.

IMO this is how more districts should do it. You want a good teacher? Fork over the cash. Problem, of course, is that cushy districts have no problem finding people. I'd be taking a 50k pay decrease if I went to Glastonbury or something.

 

[husky429]

Honestly, I don't see most teaching positions needing the best and brightest. I worked with a dozen or so Ivy League grads and they were among the worst teachers I've come across.

Two of the best teachers I had were at a vocational school. Neither graduated high school. They were former military and were SeaBees in WWII and Korea.

Elementary teachers, especially at the younger grades, take a special kind of person, not an advanced degree.

I have two master Master's Degrees and a CAGS. I learned next to nothing in the Master's and CAGS in education.

My student teaching advisor had never been in a classroom. I had one teacher for several classes. He had a PhD, but never worked with kids outside a college setting.

Massachusetts requires continuing education, and my district paid 2/3rds of tuition, and thousands more for each degree. That's the only reason most teachers I worked with got advanced degrees.

I don't disagree with you at all. My master's, 6th-year, and CAGS are all in leadership/admin stuff, so I don't really have much personal context on a master's degree strictly for teaching. I wrote a paper on this a year-ish ago though, and the evidence is pretty clear that a Master's doesn't really make for a better teacher--at least in improving test scores. I couldn't find any data on graduation rates, attendance or anything like that. Education is notoriously difficult to accurately measure.

I'd probably be reluctant to do away with the requirements though. Generally speaking I am not in favor of lowering the barrier of entry to teaching. If nothing else, teachers are going make make less money if we only require bachelor's degrees. That's a huge bargaining chip for BOEs.

I see a lot of folks talk about wanting to get rid of requirements like the Praxis test, and I'm definitely not in favor of that. I'm not sure if MA has praxis or not... there's a content test, and a general kind of SAT-style test you have to pass. I don't like the cost of the tests, but as a barrier to entry, I think it's fine. I'm working with a teacher now who we have in as a long-term sub because she's tried to pass the test 4x and can't. Thinking about my own future kids... I don't want them taught at any grade level by someone who doesn't have a basic understanding of math and reading at what probably amounts to a 9th-grade level. The tests aren't hard at all--I think I got a single question wrong on my content test, and I'm not the brightest bulb on the bush by any means.

And fwiw, I don't think you give elementary teaching enough credit for how technical it is. Yeah, it takes a special kind of person too, but reading instruction at the elementary level is DIFFICULT.

you're right about professors... college professors who have spent little or no time in schools were useless to me in undergrad. My program now is for the principalship, but the difference in what I learn in classes taught by folks who have only worked in academia vs. those who are working in schools or have a lot of experience working in schools is notable. There's something important about just getting real, pragmatic advice that academia can't really give you. @Dream Jobbed 2.0 --I would be curious to hear your thoughts on that!

 

[husky429]

There's a CommonLit on CV for any of the middle or elementary folks on the 'yard! I just made it one of the options for our district's 4th-grade summative.

CommonLit | Reaching New Heights by Marjorie Flintom | CommonLit

www.commonlit.org

 

[Hey Adrien!]

Just got off a 30 minute phone call with parents where 2 of the minutes were on topic to why a phone call was needed while the other 28 minutes were about general anger/disapproval to the school that had is almost entirely out of my hands (for example, I am not even this student's teacher).

Thankfully, I get one of those every few years, but today was the day. Sigh.

 

[temery]

Just got off a 30 minute phone call with parents where 2 of the minutes were on topic to why a phone call was needed while the other 28 minutes were about general anger/disapproval to the school that had is almost entirely out of my hands (for example, I am not even this student's teacher).

Thankfully, I get one of those every few years, but today was the day. Sigh.

'Always call from your cell phone with caller ID blocked. People rarely pick up, and you get to leave a message. Repeat on day two.

Most parents have calmed down by day three. The really bad parents often have another kid at a different school who gets in trouble the same week. Let that school take the 30 min call.

 

[coachn]

Always thought that calling parents at work when students were out of line got the best results.Parents and students hatted it.

 

[temery]

Always thought that calling parents at work when students were out of line got the best results.Parents and students hatted it.

'Haven't the student in the room when you call works, and it's a good way to end the call.

"Your son is here. Would you like to talk to him?"

 

[Hey Adrien!]

It's the end of the year stretch, how's everyone holding up?

Personally, it feels like my most tiring year during my thirteen year tenure.

We thankfully have four days off before before a three night trip to Acadia National Park. Right now, that trip sounds exhausting, but it's a place I've always wanted to go to and the ratio of 4 adults and 17 kids is solid.

You all got this!

 

[CL82]

It's the end of the year stretch, how's everyone holding up?

Personally, it feels like my most tiring year during my thirteen year tenure.

We thankfully have four days off before before a three night trip to Acadia National Park. Right now, that trip sounds exhausting, but it's a place I've always wanted to go to and the ratio of 4 adults and 17 kids is solid.

You all got this!

Love Acadia NP. Enjoy!

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It's the end of the year stretch, how's everyone holding up?

Personally, it feels like my most tiring year during my thirteen year tenure.

We thankfully have four days off before before a three night trip to Acadia National Park. Right now, that trip sounds exhausting, but it's a place I've always wanted to go to and the ratio of 4 adults and 17 kids is solid.

You all got this!

My girlfriend is a teacher and she’s exhausted. The kids have been pretty bad all year long. They are covid kids (3rd grade) so I can’t imagine how difficult it is.

Sidenote, Acadia is nothing short of amazing. Was there this past September, the trails are beautiful, the views are as well, and Bar Harbor (if you’ll be near) is a great little town. I think we did the West Face Trail on Cadillac Mountain, which was very steep, but seasoned hikers should be fine.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

It's the end of the year stretch, how's everyone holding up?

Personally, it feels like my most tiring year during my thirteen year tenure.

We thankfully have four days off before before a three night trip to Acadia National Park. Right now, that trip sounds exhausting, but it's a place I've always wanted to go to and the ratio of 4 adults and 17 kids is solid.

You all got this!

beyond ready for the year to be over. Definitely the most tiring, physically and mentally, year of my career. I thought the covid hybrid year was bad, but this was somehow worse. Coaching helps keep me in it somewhat and helps the end of the year fly by.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

Idk how everybody else feels about this, and for context I work at an urban school in CT, but I am very done with the apathy, work refusal and attendance issues. Administration does nothing, but put more on the teachers plates while they hole up in their offices all day doing whatever it is that they do.

 

[Kathy]

My son said this was the worst year for behavior and output. He teaches 6th (they were 3rd and 4th for remote learning). He's counting the days. Will be good to tell him it's not only him.

 

[husky429]

Idk how everybody else feels about this, and for context I work at an urban school in CT, but I am very done with the apathy, work refusal and attendance issues. Administration does nothing, but put more on the teachers plates while they hole up in their offices all day doing whatever it is that they do.

Teachers who last for their careers learn to not take the apathy, work refusal, and attendance issues personally. Work your 8-4 (or whatever it is) and go home--don't do anything extra. You have a job, do it and go home.

Easier said than done, of course.

Admin not being supportive is a different issue. I would consider looking in other districts. I've worked in a wealthy town and two very low-performing districts. The most challenging students aren't bad if you have a supportive admin team.

 

[husky429]

My son said this was the worst year for behavior and output. He teaches 6th (they were 3rd and 4th for remote learning). He's counting the days. Will be good to tell him it's not only him.

This is pretty normal everywhere. I'm not convinced it's even because of Covid at this point. I think we're just seeing the results of cultural shifts.

 

[husky429]

It's the end of the year stretch, how's everyone holding up?

Personally, it feels like my most tiring year during my thirteen year tenure.

We thankfully have four days off before before a three night trip to Acadia National Park. Right now, that trip sounds exhausting, but it's a place I've always wanted to go to and the ratio of 4 adults and 17 kids is solid.

You all got this!

I am a quasi-admin right now. I do discipline and classroom management coaching. I also moonlight as a SPED and reading teacher because so many of them quit we needs folks to run PPTs and give reading tests to the low kids. I have been very busy, but it doesn't always feel like it because I'm constantly doing different things.

Getting yelled at by parents claiming they'll sue me after suspending their kids is always fun, though. Lol. One parent claimed I violated free speech because the kid was fighting in the cafe and got OSS!

I am pretty good at mentally separating work/home, something most teachers seem to struggle with. The biggest challenge for me was taking 8 credits a semester on top of a new job... poor decision.

You'll love Acadia. Go to Jordan Pond House if you can swing it!

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I am a quasi-admin right now. I do discipline and classroom management coaching. I also moonlight as a SPED and reading teacher because so many of them quit we needs folks to run PPTs and give reading tests to the low kids. I have been very busy, but it doesn't always feel like it because I'm constantly doing different things.

Getting yelled at by parents claiming they'll sue me after suspending their kids is always fun, though. Lol. One parent claimed I violated free speech because the kid was fighting in the cafe and got OSS!

I am pretty good at mentally separating work/home, something most teachers seem to struggle with. The biggest challenge for me was taking 8 credits a semester on top of a new job... poor decision.

You'll love Acadia. Go to Jordan Pond House if you can swing it!

Jordan Pond House is a beautiful spot. Didn’t eat there but the view was sweet

 

[crazyUCfan23]

Teachers who last for their careers learn to not take the apathy, work refusal, and attendance issues personally. Work your 8-4 (or whatever it is) and go home--don't do anything extra. You have a job, do it and go home.

Easier said than done, of course.

Admin not being supportive is a different issue. I would consider looking in other districts. I've worked in a wealthy town and two very low-performing districts. The most challenging students aren't bad if you have a supportive admin team.

I get that. I am pretty good of not taking working home (mentally and physically), and not taking anything personally, but the classroom stuff has just made the days insufferable this year.

I am looking for another district believe me haha

 

[StllH8L8ner]

My parents were both teachers and I can confidently say it’s the most under appreciated career out there, especially these days. I volunteer coaching flag football, baseball, hockey and basketball for 9-10 year olds and while most of the kids are fairly well behaved, holy cow some of them are just straight up...well, not easy to deal with. Many, many kids have zero attention span and don’t want to listen to anyone so I couldn’t imagine doing it for 6-8 hours a day. Plus grading papers on nights and weekends. My sister-in-law had a parent ask her to explain to their kid that they were getting a divorce.

So on behalf of my family and other people who still dislike Christian Laettner, a big THANK YOU!

 

[Greedo]

Idk how everybody else feels about this, and for context I work at an urban school in CT, but I am very done with the apathy, work refusal and attendance issues. Administration does nothing, but put more on the teachers plates while they hole up in their offices all day doing whatever it is that they do.

I used to work in a similar district to the one you describe. I got a job in a different district 3 years ago and it has been the greatest change for me. I have so much less stress and anxiety in my day to day life. The things people complain about at my current district just make me chuckle.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

I used to work in a similar district to the one you describe. I got a job in a different district 3 years ago and it has been the greatest change for me. I have so much less stress and anxiety in my day to day life. The things people complain about at my current district just make me chuckle.

Getting into a new district is my plan!

 

[Greedo]

This is pretty normal everywhere. I'm not convinced it's even because of Covid at this point. I think we're just seeing the results of cultural shifts.

I agree with this. I personally see it as a cultural shift both from parents and schools. My last district was all about trauma informed education, which I think is awesome. But when the implementation of that is rewarding kids that misbehave by letting them hang out in the "meditation room" instead of class it just creates more behavior problems.

 

[crazyUCfan23]

I agree with this. I personally see it as a cultural shift both from parents and schools. My last district was all about trauma informed education, which I think is awesome. But when the implementation of that is rewarding kids that misbehave by letting them hang out in the "meditation room" instead of class it just creates more behavior problems.

I would tend to agree as well. Parents and schools have change, and while I think Covid has something to do with it, it isn't the answer or reason for everything. Kids have figured out what to say in order to get out of doing work/class. Due dates seemingly don't matter anymore, or at least in my district.