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Seattle's season kinda reminded me of our 89-90 season. I thought we had lost the Clemson game then we had the miracle Scott Burrell to Tate George shot (Seattle's Green Bay) . Then we were disappointed in the next game by Christian Laettner at the end. Live by the sword die by the sword.
 
upstater said:
Yes, he's mad because his team won the Super Bowl. The same reason you are happy, because yours didn't.
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I was using his idiotic statement (U mad bro) because he can't even call an amazing catch what it is. So upstater, was that just a ho hum everyday catch like he said?
 
I just wanted to say...
 

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Some of you have played football , some of you haven't and the guys that have played high school, college semi pro or whatever know there are no gifts at this level especially. Dumb calls yes but no gifts , Butler had to make the play and he did. Pat haters will but there spin on the game "of course" but patriot nation wanted this one bad and shove this up your ass.
 
Cheeky said:
The same mentality that the Seahawks used to get the touchdown with 6 seconds left in the 1st half is the same they used to throw the pic. You can't have one without the other. If they play more conservatively, then they get 3 in the first half instead of 7, and they have Lynch run at the end to tie, not win.
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I think this is true generally in terms of the gambler mentality that it took to go for seven instead of three at the end of the first half. No question I would have gone for three in that spot, but I can see the upside to the gamble there and it wasn't that crazy. That final play was apparently intended to be a surprise, but there really was little upside to justify the gamble there imo. Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but I thought the first half gamble was bold and the final play gamble was reckless.
 
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donyell34 said:
Some of you have played football , some of you haven't and the guys that have played high school, college semi pro or whatever know there are no gifts at this level especially. Dumb calls yes but no gifts , Butler had to make the play and he did. Pat haters will but there spin on the game "of course" but patriot nation wanted this one bad and shove this up your ass.
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Agree so I can now expect all my Pats fans friends up here to stop with the "but David Tyree..." crap!
 
8893 said:
but I thought the first half gamble was bold and the final play gamble was reckless.
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If they had thrown an incomplete pass and run out of time in the 1st half, and then completed the pass at the end, would you then have said the first was reckless and the second bold?

The had 30 seconds, 1 time out, 1 yard to go. They were coming out of a time out.

They should have done this, with the first two plays scripted:

Run Lynch.
If no TD, line up quickly and throw an option pass roll out of some kind.
If no, Time Out.
Run Lynch.

Bill Belichick not calling a TO was brilliant, because it prevented them from running 3 times.
 
Cheeky said:
If they had thrown an incomplete pass and run out of time in the 1st half, and then completed the pass at the end, would you then have said the first was reckless and the second bold?

The had 30 seconds, 1 time out, 1 yard to go. They were coming out of a time out.

They should have done this, with the first two plays scripted:

Run Lynch.
If no TD, line up quickly and throw an option pass roll out of some kind.
If no, Time Out.
Run Lynch.

Bill Belichick not calling a TO was brilliant, because it prevented them from running 3 times.
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You are correct and widely over looked. Also the cadence call on the one yard line to pull the the Hawks off side was brilliant.
 
Cheeky said:
If they had thrown an incomplete pass and run out of time in the 1st half, and then completed the pass at the end, would you then have said the first was reckless and the second bold?
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No. I called the 1st half play bold before I knew the result. It was a gamble, but it was calculated. The upside was four points and a tie, which was huge. The downside was running out of time and giving up the sure three. But there was a reasonably good chance that the incomplete pass would have left enough time to get the three anyway, so it wasn't reckless imo. Again, I would have been more conservative there, but I don't think it was reckless.

The last play call was just plain dumb imo, whether it worked or not.
 
8893 said:
the incomplete pass would have left enough time to get the three anyway
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The Defender was 1/2 second late getting to the ball - if Ryan gets there a bit earlier, no score at all. And, as we saw later, there's the chance for an INT or fumble.

It's easy to apply the labels "bold" and "reckless" in hindsight. I go with Bold for both or Reckless for both.
 
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Cheeky said:
The Defender was 1/2 second late getting to the ball - if Ryan gets there a bit earlier, no score at all. And, as we saw later, there's the chance for an INT or fumble.

It's easy to apply the labels "bold" and "reckless" in hindsight. I go with Bold for both or Reckless for both.
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I understand that hindsight is all we have now. I would not have taken either risk, but I don't think that makes them both reckless. I could have been talked into the first half play and my buddy and I talked about it before we knew the result, because it was not a surprise once they kept the offense on the field. "Bold" was one of several terms we used; "big balls" was another. But we both acknowledged that we would have taken the sure three instead. As I noted though, there were good arguments to consider taking that risk--it just bucked conventional wisdom.

Other than the element of surprise, I really don't see any justification for the final play risk. And the only reason you can say it's a surprise is because it's so stupid that no one should consider doing it. I heard some suggest that it was designed to waste time, but that only makes sense to me if you count on an incomplete pass. A completed pass there means an immediate TD and giving the Pats more time than you would presumably eat by pounding it up the middle for a few plays and using your time out if needed to stop the clock. If you are planning on an incomplete pass, you don't throw it over the middle. I just don't see any set of circumstances under which I could be talked into making that call in that spot. Too much risk and not enough reward imo.

So I guess I disagree with your premise that they are a package deal with equal risk/reward. Although I wouldn't have made either choice, I think there are plenty of people who would make the first half call, and I don't think there are very many who would have made the second--not just in hindsight.
 
August_West said:
You're a pats fan am I right?

Not taketh/ giveth at all.

More like

Great catch/ stupidest coaching decision ever.
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Not a Pats fan here - Giants

But I agree - Taketh/giveth to the nth degree - no great catch, shear and utter luck it stayed off the ground. It was a great defensive play to break it up to start

You are obviously a Pats hater

CONGRATS TO THE PATS - from a Giants fan
 
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With the amount of salt coming from Giants fans today you can cover every inch of sidewalk in Foxborough
 
"Bill Belichick not calling a TO was brilliant, because it prevented them from running 3 times. "

I agree and very much overlooked - eventhough - i doubt Lynch, the mute idiot, would have needed more than 1 attempt.
Love them or hate them - Belichek is a genius and Brady is so very very cool under pressure. Edelman can play for me ANY DAY.
UConn Mens BB needs a few like Edelman
 
zyron said:
You are an idiot, he stayed with the ball and made the catch. How come Pats fans call everyone a hater (like teenage girls do) when other fans don't kiss the Pats .

You want to know what luck is, the Pats winning this game.

You mad bro?
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Right. Butler's INT was "luck". God, is this what I sounded like when I was part of this group of anti-Pats ? Just shoot me, please.
 
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8893 said:
I understand that hindsight is all we have now. I would not have taken either risk, but I don't think that makes them both reckless. I could have been talked into the first half play and my buddy and I talked about it before we knew the result, because it was not a surprise once they kept the offense on the field. "Bold" was one of several terms we used; "big balls" was another. But we both acknowledged that we would have taken the sure three instead. As I noted though, there were good arguments to consider taking that risk--it just bucked conventional wisdom.

Other than the element of surprise, I really don't see any justification for the final play risk. And the only reason you can say it's a surprise is because it's so stupid that no one should consider doing it. I heard some suggest that it was designed to waste time, but that only makes sense to me if you count on an incomplete pass. A completed pass there means an immediate TD and giving the Pats more time than you would presumably eat by pounding it up the middle for a few plays and using your time out if needed to stop the clock. If you are planning on an incomplete pass, you don't throw it over the middle. I just don't see any set of circumstances under which I could be talked into making that call in that spot. Too much risk and not enough reward imo.

So I guess I disagree with your premise that they are a package deal with equal risk/reward. Although I wouldn't have made either choice, I think there are plenty of people who would make the first half call, and I don't think there are very many who would have made the second--not just in hindsight.
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My big thing about the end of 2nd quarter TD was why the Pats didn't chuck the receivers at the LOS. That would have killed that surgically timed play.
 
gtcam said:
Edelman can play for me ANY DAY.
UConn Mens BB needs a few like Edelman
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Yeah I think anyone would well except for maybe Hitler.
 
In hind site it was a horrific call but Butler made a great play on the ball. That's kind of being lost in all the on Carroll (who is one smug SOB.)
 
There is no logic for doing what they did. They had everything in their favor, the clock, time to run 3 plays with the greatest short yardage back in the NFL who would twist and turn his way in not 1 time but 3 times. Run don't make it, run again don't make it, time out run 4th down. But he would have scored 1st or 2nd shot. The pass in the middle only allows bad stuff to happen. A fade to the corner where only the receiver can catch it could maybe be explained, but even that is dumb. A pass in the middle of the field?!
Patriots get a gift, Brady and Bellicheck were crying on the sidelines. Carroll's "explanation" is a crock. He should just say "we effed up". Why the fight at the end? The Seahawk's players could not believe what their coaching staff called and they fought out of frustration, who could blame them? Had they not won last year there would have been a murder. It was the dumbest thing I've ever seen in sports. Patriots win a game they were handed on a silver platter, and with what's to follow with the possible cheating, there is some diminishment and reason to worry for Pats fans, although they will take it and love it.
 
jibsey said:
The Seahawk's players could not believe what their coaching staff called and they fought out of frustration, who could blame them?
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I hope the team turns on Pete and the entire franchise gets thrust into chaos,
 
It wasn't that complicated. Carroll overthought it. You're on the 1, 2nd down, 24 seconds left and 1 TO. Give the ball to Lynch and run the frickin' thing. Pats were gift-handed that game.
 
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I agree that they should have ran the ball but everyone makes it sound like Lynch was a lock to score a TD and that just isn't true.

Stats from the 1 yard line for Lynch:
This year Lynch rush: 5 Att, 1 TD
Career Lynch rush: 35 Att/15 TD (43%)/1 Fum (2.8%)
 
gtcam said:
"Bill Belichick not calling a TO was brilliant, because it prevented them from running 3 times. "

I agree and very much overlooked - eventhough - i doubt Lynch, the mute idiot, would have needed more than 1 attempt.
Love them or hate them - Belichek is a genius and Brady is so very very cool under pressure. Edelman can play for me ANY DAY.
UConn Mens BB needs a few like Edelman
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Brady is very cool mostly under pressure but I believe he was under pressure on that first pick which he threw off his back foot falling backwards too wasn't he? I'm not so sure that was "very, very" cool maybe just "very" LOL
 
Well worth the wait. Good game. The best team won as it always does. And the Patriots can now be celebrated as the greatest professional franchise of our generation. Why would you not be head-over-heals in love with this outcome?

America's team.

As far as the ball thing is concerned, the only people who will care about what follows, are the crazies and those who make money off of controversy. The rational people are moving on to next season. Pats are the team to beat again, right?
 
auggie22 said:
Well worth the wait. Good game. The best team won as it always does. And the Patriots can now be celebrated as the greatest professional franchise of our generation. Why would you not be head-over-heals in love with this outcome?

America's team.

As far as the ball thing is concerned, the only people who will care about what follows, are the crazies and those who make money off of controversy. The rational people are moving on to next season. Pats are the team to beat again, right?
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What generation you from?
 
gtcam said:
"Bill Belichick not calling a TO was brilliant, because it prevented them from running 3 times. "

I agree and very much overlooked - eventhough - i doubt Lynch, the mute idiot, would have needed more than 1 attempt.
Love them or hate them - Belichek is a genius and Brady is so very very cool under pressure. Edelman can play for me ANY DAY.
UConn Mens BB needs a few like Edelman
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Belichick not calling TO was insanely stupid, there was 30 seconds and 1 TO left so you can still run the ball 3 times (0 chance it would have taken 3 times) from the 1 in that situation.
 
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