Summitt's Disease

[EricLA]

Ask Geno how he feels about Pat Summitt. His thoughts might actually help you gain some respect for Pat. Regardless of the things that happened they are very respectful and complimentary of each other at this point.

I wonder of those same comments would help any Tennessee fans gain some respect for Geno. Seems like that knife cuts both ways. Not directing that comment to you directly, but to the Tennessee fans who still persist in the fantasy of the delusional accusations they still attribute to Genoa and UCONN...

 

[Woof 101]

My heart out to Pat and all who suffer what she is going through. Living with it in my own family as many of us do.
Having said that my most favorable moment in all the years I have watched woman's basketball. This long before Geno came along, but once he did, was DT punching the stanchion.
It was a take that Pat moment with panache... I wish Pat was still able to stir the stew and draw attention to the game. This by playing us instead of pouting. Again basketball aside my heart to her and her family...

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

No, she threw a clipboard to the floor after Michelle Snow gave up a three pointer to Asjha Jones. PHS never threw it into the stands.

PHS was an intense coach, driven to succeed and get the most from her players. Sound familiar? I think the reasons Pat and Geno were fated never to be good friends while they were both coaching were that 1. they were too different, culturally, and 2. they were at the same time, too much alike professionally.

I wish PHS all the best. I don't know if the suspicions of cheating and resulting complaints were caused by her illness but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as it's probably true. The clowns that actually followed through on the complaints? Not so much. A thirty page complaint consisting of tonyc's bragging about undefeated seasons and getting top recruits combined with a 75+ year old guy in a wheelchair giving a sign to a recruit's father should have had one of the rocket scientists at the SEC askin, "WTF?" before passing it on to the NCAA.

Pat must have gotten angry at Michelle Snow a lot. I vividly remember a game in Columbia between USC and Tennessee when Pat was upset at Michelle and she stomped her heel and yelled "Snow" loud enough that all 12,000+ in attendance heard her. A few minutes later, Michelle had the only dunk by a WBB player that I've seen in person.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Also if Pat really was experiencing dementia driven paranoia, shouldn't someone in the Athletic Dept. have picked up on it and used good judgement in not filing the complaint against UConn? Pat leads Geno, not only in career victories, but also in NCAA violations, so if Geno is a "cheater," then what does that make Pat? Those in glass houses and all that.

Exactly..... no issue with Pat's accomplishments..... but hey come on UT athletic dept..... you really want to stand on this "you know what you did" mimicking garbage? reminds me of people who come up to the crowd, throw the hand grenade and run away..... absolutely no respect for that..... and i laugh when i read TN boards and see the contrast with us "cheaters versus pure class".... Laughable.....

And if I can say one more thing..... on Holly.... yes TN went through an awkward transition absolutely..... but i fully expected she would harness her 30 yrs experience as right hand person to pat and 4 years now as head coach to do a more effective job..... as regular season co champion of SEC she has bought herself more time as head coach, which as a UConn fan I am very happy with. The funny thing is .... she is recruiting well..... just not able to coach what she has..... our TN posters may disagree, but I just do not see it.

 

[DobbsRover2]

No, she threw a clipboard to the floor after Michelle Snow gave up a three pointer to Asjha Jones. PHS never threw it into the stands.

PHS was an intense coach, driven to succeed and get the most from her players. Sound familiar? I think the reasons Pat and Geno were fated never to be good friends while they were both coaching were that 1. they were too different, culturally, and 2. they were at the same time, too much alike professionally.

I wish PHS all the best. I don't know if the suspicions of cheating and resulting complaints were caused by her illness but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as it's probably true. The clowns that actually followed through on the complaints? Not so much. A thirty page complaint consisting of tonyc's bragging about undefeated seasons and getting top recruits combined with a 75+ year old guy in a wheelchair giving a sign to a recruit's father should have had one of the rocket scientists at the SEC askin, "WTF?" before passing it on to the NCAA.

That does focus again on the question of who was really pushing the NCAA investigation of Geno. Was it a bitter Pat who was the driving force, or was it the bumbling flunkies (maybe like Jennings) connected with the AD Joan Cronan that took what they thought were the queen's wishes and ran off and did a half-butt hatchet job on Geno and UConn, or was it mainly a Cronan power play in an asinine attempt to protect the Lady Vol brand that Pat and she built? Maybe a bit of all, but from the few facts that have leaked out, it's hard to say how much Pat was pushing the low-level dirty work and how much she was acting as the revered spokeswoman for the character assassination. Maybe some of both? But to me, the 30+ pages of charges seem always to have had just a glossy dollop of Pat and a huge smear of some UTenn pack of AD idiot clowns trying to paste together any clueless piece of garbage into a mess that they hoped had enough volume to make it look like it had substance, even though there was none. I just can't imagine Pat sitting down for months and digging up all that weird stuff, though I can easily see her signing off on it with a thought of "Oh, there's the ESPN visit, and the rest of the stuff is filler that will add some weight."

And that then returns to the endless spinning about resuming the series, which from some general and possibly half-hearted comments from Pat, she seems to at least accept as doable again. The apology would need to come from a UTenn AD office that may well have been the main driver behind the 2006 smear campaign, just like I suspect it was the Vanderbilt AD office that was responsible for last year's moan job and maybe not the WCBB coach, as the SEC just shows more of its own paranoia streak. And though the UTenn AD Cronan behind the charges is now merely an emeritus and the new guy Hart seems like a responsible guy, the AD office still has to come to terms with what it did before offering an apology, and that is probably not politically possible at a place like UTenn where the shadows run long and deep.

 

[HuskyNan]

That does focus again on the question of who was really pushing the NCAA investigation of Geno. Was it a bitter Pat who was the driving force, or was it the bumbling flunkies (maybe like Jennings) connected with the AD Joan Cronan that took what they thought were the queen's wishes and ran off and did a half-butt hatchet job on Geno and UConn, or was it mainly a Cronan power play in an asinine attempt to protect the Lady Vol brand that Pat and she built? Maybe a bit of all, but from the few facts that have leaked out, it's hard to say how much Pat was pushing the low-level dirty work and how much she was acting as the revered spokeswoman for the character assassination. Maybe some of both? But to me, the 30+ pages of charges seem always to have had just a glossy dollop of Pat and a huge smear of some UTenn pack of AD idiot clowns trying to paste together any clueless piece of garbage into a mess that they hoped had enough volume to make it look like it had substance, even though there was none. I just can't imagine Pat sitting down for months and digging up all that weird stuff, though I can easily see her signing off on it with a thought of "Oh, there's the ESPN visit, and the rest of the stuff is filler that will add some weight."

And that then returns to the endless spinning about resuming the series, which from some general and possibly half-hearted comments from Pat, she seems to at least accept as doable again. The apology would need to come from a UTenn AD office that may well have been the main driver behind the 2006 smear campaign, just like I suspect it was the Vanderbilt AD office that was responsible for last year's moan job and maybe not the WCBB coach, as the SEC just shows more of its own paranoia streak. And though the UTenn AD Cronan behind the charges is now merely an emeritus and the new guy Hart seems like a responsible guy, the AD office still has to come to terms with what it did before offering an apology, and that is probably not politically possible at a place like UTenn where the shadows run long and deep.

I don't know for sure, but I've always been of the opinion that Cronan had more to do with things than was known. Probably out of respect and affection for PHS but throwing the Geno, UConn, and the Maya Moore family under the bus just to prove loyalty to PHS is something that would make even made Coach P balk.

I'm not even getting into the Captain of the Tin Foil Hatters Brigade's role. In my worst hours, I hope that person choked on their sour grapes.

 

[DobbsRover2]

And though Trigger Hippy's "Tennessee Mud" came out many years too late for peak relevance, it still has some relevance for the whole situation with UTenn back then.

Cocaine talkers and workout walkers . . . .
Axes grindin', the chainsaw's whinin' . . . .
All of our possessions pulled from the wreckage . . .
Oh, one hell of a season, the toppled down trees in the flood . . .

There ain't nothing left to do but roll around in the Tennessee mud

 

[Tonyc]

The posts by Tenn fans which lasted along time makes me think how did the fans know that the 37 page NCAA violation was coming down if some of them weren't behind it. Who orchestrated this? We can be pretty sure it was because UConn was dominating Tenn and the fans didn't like it. I don't believe Pat had much to do with it but was aware of it. I believe it was put together by people on the Summit. JMO of course. Then got Pat and the administration involved as well as the SEC. It was a terrible thing they did and I have no sympathy for anybody who was involved with it.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Of course, it does not matter at all if Pat did not initiate it, and it was Cronan, the fans or whoever.... the thing is she was the Queen, and she said the words quite emphatically when referring to the whole issue "You know what you did!!!".... a stance and battle cry she and her followers still have not come off of almost 10 years later.....

With both UConn and Tenn at a standoff as to potential followup action (apologize or not, still hold to claim of cheating, etc).... I am pretty much OK with the way things are now..... i.e. no expectations at all, but no movement to appease Tenn and grant their every wish either...... we will meet at some point (perhaps in Albany this year) and we will finally play...... and aside from the fading nostalgia and bad memories of this whole mess, it will ALL be about basketball !!!

 

[DobbsRover2]

The posts by Tenn fans which lasted along time makes me think how did the fans know that the 37 page NCAA violation was coming down if some of them weren't behind it. Who orchestrated this? We can be pretty sure it was because UConn was dominating Tenn and the fans didn't like it. I don't believe Pat had much to do with it but was aware of it. I believe it was put together by people on the Summit. JMO of course. Then got Pat and the administration involved as well as the SEC. It was a terrible thing they did and I have no sympathy for anybody who was involved with it.

Tonyc, if that suspicion is really true, there could be a best-selling book in this story, plus an idea for some future activism for Boneyard extremists. That a pack of dementors on the Summitt could have been the main agents into pushing UTenn to file charges with the NCAA against UConn would be an incredible tale about the culture within the sports athletic department at a P5 school. Not sure if any of the Summitteers would be willing to talk about if it is true and whether they would share the evidence about their methods is unclear (though I can think of a few of them that would likely be willing to brag about it), but it would make a great story.

Still think it was mainly just Cronan's cronies, who of course were all frequent visitors to the Summitt and picked up a lot of fake poop.

 

[rugbymate]

In the fullness of time, its my sincere hope that we can all forget the eyebrow raising judgements that all uber competitive people like PS make in the heat of the moment and remember only her great achievements. She is one of a few individuals who made WCBB the success that it is today. How many thousands of young women did she provide hope and motivation to? How many lives did she dramatically improve? In fact, UCONN's program, its success and its importance in the marketplace can be traced to her pioneering efforts. I wish her and her family and friends all the best in dealing with the insidious hand she has been dealt.

 

[Bayareahusky]

All this talk makes me think of something had never before thought..... If in fact the 30 something allegations did come from the Cronan wing of the athletic department, that is something to think about..... I had always admired UTenn's foresight in setting up a separate women's athletic department branch...... something that was in place until Dave Hart retro'd it all a couple of years back.... If bevy of unfounded and groundless allegations came from women's athletic dept, and especially with the way the whole thing was - and still is - being handled, perhaps it is much better that UT's athletic department is now unified and singing off the same song sheet.

 

[diggerfoot]

Thank you Digger! Your comments have given me some useful insights to the situation I am dealing with in my own family. I've done some searching on the web and that information has really been helpful.

As far as Pat is concerned: She was a ferocious competitor and put WCBB on the map. I agree with the suggestion of compassion. None of us who have the gift of our mental facilities can fully understand the terror and despair that someone with that disease faces. We should all hope for a cure before we reach that point in life!

Got your PM. For some reason I've been able to reply to other PMs, but not yours. You might want to check out a brain health checklist I've been compiling, though I haven't gotten to the category of stress yet. I look at volumes of articles each day now, can't put my finger on the one about stress deemed as a beginning sign of Alzheimer's yet, but I've got your email when I pin it down.

 

[Ellie]

I don't know for sure, but I've always been of the opinion that Cronan had more to do with things than was known. Probably out of respect and affection for PHS but throwing the Geno, UConn, and the Maya Moore family under the bus just to prove loyalty to PHS is something that would make even made Coach P balk.

I'm not even getting into the Captain of the Tin Foil Hatters Brigade's role. In my worst hours, I hope that person choked on their sour grapes.

Geno and UCONN can take anything dished out but Maya was a kid and never should have had to deal with that BS from Tennessee. Of course the family was upset because they had to watch their kid get trashed. You know how it goes Mother Nan, "Say what you want about me but leave my kids out of it!"

 

[ctchamps]

Greetings Boneyarders. I've been on a self-imposed hiatus. I police myself when I feel I start posting in a manner I would not say face-to-face. Beyond that, I'm dealing with some challenges that preoccupy my time 24/7. I figure that I would use this lull time before the tournament to get a number of posts out of the way, stored up while I was lurking, before my 24/7 gig probably will necessitate I go back to lurker mode. That gig, in fact, relates to the first topic I want to cover.

In the nineties and early millennium Pat Summitt was my favorite WCBB coach not in UConn blue. She would play anybody that was good, to her credit and our advantage for helping us break in as a national power. Then things changed.

In retrospect I believe the cause of that change was her impending Alzheimer's. Some recent research suggests that the first indicators considered for the disease should not be the memory problems that eventually surface, but the stress that often triggers them. Often wonder why such vibrant people succumb to the disease? It's because of their vibrancy, if they are too stressed in their pursuits.

Coaching with the passion Summitt had is stressful enough, particularly when some upstart threatens to usurp her throne. I believe that to be her tipping point. Her paranoid behavior in regards to us is consistent with an Alzheimer's patient's fear of losing control of their lives, particularly when they don't yet understand what is going on with them.

For that reason Summitt forever has a pass in my book. When she was normal she was the worthiest opposing coach we've ever faced. The paranoid Summitt that ended up dragging us through the mud was not that same coach and should be considered with compassion more than condemnation.

You co mingled two things. Alzheimer's and Pat/Tennessee.

It saddens me that the bad blood over Tennessee's accusations makes us miss what you are going through. Anger is a strong emotion whether or not we have Alzheimer's. We defend ours they defend theirs. In the end all this rancor is both important and meaningless.

It sounds like your wife has taken a turn for the worse. I'm really sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers for you and your family.