Stay Classy Brenda

[JordyG]

Um no. They are UConn scores against D1 opponents over the years.

H-m-m-m. So these selective scores over the course of X plus years have what in common with 2-20 D2 teams and thrashing them every year? Yes, those were clearly either not very good teams, or like last years Mississippi State game, not expected. Yes, The UConn plays D2 teams, but for the most part these teams are reflective of far better versions of D2's than what Frese schedules. For all that I get on Mulkey, at least Emporia State made good inroads in last years D2 NCAA's. And lets not speak of The UConn and Lubbock Christian from last year.

 

[JordyG]

OK I will ask then, do you have an example in WCBB when an exhibition has been played with anyone but a "child" as you say it? They all are patsies..... It is like the football games you try to set up for homecoming.... someone you can whomp on.....

If it is me, and i am the coach, i do not schedule someone like Bluefield State..... but my point was . why should I call into question Brenda, when she thinks this sort of game can improve her team in some way, or reveal areas which could show to her how her team is progressing..... perhaps we shouldn't schedule Indiana Univeristy of Pennsylvania.....

Then Brenda in thinking a 2-20 D2 team will help her teams growth is not thinking very clearly. Or perhaps she anticipated that such a "great" recruiting classes egos were such eggshells that they needed to be galvanized by pummeling powderpuffs. And may I remind you that Emporia State and Lubbock Christian did well in D2 last year.

 

[Volup1]

Maryland has no 2017 commits. Perhaps this "performance" was, in part, intended to get the attention of a very small audience: Evina Westbrook and Rennia Davis.

 

[UcMiami]

OK I will ask then, do you have an example in WCBB when an exhibition has been played with anyone but a "child" as you say it? They all are patsies..... It is like the football games you try to set up for homecoming.... someone you can whomp on.....

If it is me, and i am the coach, i do not schedule someone like Bluefield State..... but my point was . why should I call into question Brenda, when she thinks this sort of game can improve her team in some way, or reveal areas which could show to her how her team is progressing..... perhaps we shouldn't schedule Indiana Univeristy of Pennsylvania.....

The National team has done it a couple of times I believe, once during Tara's reign when they were playing together for the full year, and once in the early 2000s as well. Otherwise it is set up by the NCAA to not be competitive generally - D1 teams cannot play against each other except in scrimmages so they are always playing lesser divisions. But i think Baylor would say they had a competitive game for there first preseason one.

 

[mudcat]

I don't understand the outrage? It's an EXHIBITION game, I also don't understand this whole "running up the score" mentality. Are you supposed to put players in a game that don't get much playing time and tell them not to play to the best of their ability because we may "run up the score?" Did the "Dream Team" run up the score in the 1992 Olympics? Why is University of Maryland exhibition game against a D-II opponent the topic of convo on a UConn Fan Message Board? Didn't the Huskies play Tuesday night? How many points did they win by? I just don't what the big deal is.....

I think the outrage is not so much against the score, but reflects questioning regarding why such an obviously inferior team was scheduled in the first place (318 statistically out of 318 D2 schools). As was pointed out, it appears that it is to give the fans of those schools an opportunity to see the state flagship institution. It should be pointed out also that these schools, for various reasons, choose to play the U. of MD, there is no coercion involved.

 

[JordyG]

I think the outrage is not so much against the score, but reflects questioning regarding why such an obviously inferior team was scheduled in the first place (318 statistically out of 318 D2 schools). As was pointed out, it appears that it is to give the fans of those schools an opportunity to see the state flagship institution. It should be pointed out also that these schools, for various reasons, choose to play the U. of MD, there is no coercion involved.

Understood and agreed. But from my viewpoint the benefit is all tilted toward the D2 team that gets a look at the states flagship, exposure, a little money, a nice trip, and their players get a a real taste of what it takes to play at that level. Clearly what Geno does is use the entire game as a teaching moment(s) against fairly good and even excellent D2 teams. I ask, where and what were Frese's teaching moments against Bluefield State? If it were a fight Bluefield's corner would have thrown in the towel faster than a speeding Mulkey bulletjacket, and no one would have objected.

 

[cabbie191]

H-m-m-m. So these selective scores over the course of X plus years have what in common with 2-20 D2 teams and thrashing them every year? Yes, those were clearly either not very good teams, or like last years Mississippi State game, not expected. Yes, The UConn plays D2 teams, but for the most part these teams are reflective of far better versions of D2's than what Frese schedules. For all that I get on Mulkey, at least Emporia State made good inroads in last years D2 NCAA's. And lets not speak of The UConn and Lubbock Christian from last year.

Let's emphasize "far better" given that Lubbock Christian had an undefeated team last year. I checked into their website a moment ago - their main article features a picture of their coach talking with Geno.

 

[HuskyNan]

To the person that called BF a name in a now-deleted post: it's ironic that in a thread calling out Frese for a lack of class that a UConn fan would call her "pond scum".

Just sayin'.

 

[Charliebball]

Understood and agreed. But from my viewpoint the benefit is all tilted toward the D2 team that gets a look at the states flagship, exposure, a little money, a nice trip, and their players get a a real taste of what it takes to play at that level. Clearly what Geno does is use the entire game as a teaching moment(s) against fairly good and even excellent D2 teams. I ask, where and what were Frese's teaching moments against Bluefield State? If it were a fight Bluefield's corner would have thrown in the towel faster than a speeding Mulkey bulletjacket, and no one would have objected.

I'd love to know exactly how much money these sacrificial lambs make for their efforts..........

 

[Kibitzer]

I'd love to know exactly how much money these sacrificial lambs make for their efforts.....

A team from the northeast recently cancelled their game with UNC in passive protest over MC political positions. They forfeited a $17,000 payoff, plus arrangements for lodging and xx number of meals for xx players.

IUP chartered a bus for the 460 mile round trip to Storrs. I'm sure ther was some provision for meals and lodging in CT.

The team from Texas (L____ Christian?) went all out. Chartered a plane for team and fans, played UConn and someone else, toured Boston, then went home. They made a movie about the trip to New England and had a successful season.

 

[HuskyNan]

I'd love to know exactly how much money these sacrificial lambs make for their efforts.....

IIRC, it's usually in the $15,000-20,000 range.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Well, let's remember that Brenda has had a time of it, with a very sick child and the family (esp. her husband) heroically rallying, and all is good now. Having said that, yeah, this really sucks. She needs to chill.

Bags--you've been through this drill --year after year-- you know the Div 2 team get paid to be beaten. Also, as a Coach, you know you'd tell your team--this is what we expect to get out of this game--if we do that we are winners. Don't look at the score--it does not count. And---you'd tell them the pluses of playing a Div 1 team , knowing you'd be beaten. Finally you'd tell any player that does not want to participate to say so--then the school has the option to accept or reject the offer to play.

EVERYONE KNOWS DIV 2 WILL GET DRUBBED BY DIV 1--ESPECIALLY A TOP 10 TEAM.

Why is it different for Brenda to run a WVA team into the ground and not for Uconn to win by 71 points---after 20 points--everything else can be considered PILING ON.
There has to be benefits for Div 2 to play Div 1--or no one would do it..

This is NOT a MORAL issue--its about MONEY, Experience and learning..

 

[psilotic]

She should be ashamed of herself. I hope UCONN pounds the daylights out of them.

I don't visit here often but are some of you guys really complaining about another coach's "score management"? Reason why Geno has 11 national titles is because he coaches possession by possession and at the end the numbers look a little ugly on the score side. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with other coaches doing it either, especially in a scrimmage.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Bags, we all feel for Brenda and how her child has had to battle leukemia. Trust me every parent out there knows how they would feel in her shoes. I've had an issue with Brenda as a coach and her statements about how easy it is to win when you get the best recruits, not as a mother. She has proved to be wonderful, caring and dedicated mom. But certainly choosing a 2-23 D2 team to iron her great recruiting classes wrinkles frankly sounds like a bad coaching decision.

JordyG--99 times out of 100 I agree with your---Ask your self; Why do Div 2 teams play top Div 1 teams if not for Money--it's not a moral issue--it's score means nothing--The Div 2 teams AGREE to be BEATEN--after 50 points--to steal a phrase WhAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?? Beaten is beaten. Is 129 point more humiliating than 71??
I am NOT a Brenda lover--but she is no worse than all other top div 1 coaches. I'm not a fan of drubbing opponents--I was taught it was morally wrong to run your opponent into the mud--but this is Business!. Accept that or year after year you will be having the same moral battle.
\
My cousins preteen daughter had leukemia--it took her life, years of doctors, hospitals.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Why the heck would any top 10 team want to schedule a 2-23 DII team for a tune up.....exactly how does that help her kids?....at least the team UConn played made the DII playoffs last year..find it hard to believe they couldn't find a more talented opponent....heck my daughter's teams scrimmage incredibly tough opponents early.....makes the regular season feel like a cake walk...

No team has to play a top 10 Div1 team in exhibitions---they know the results will be a beating--so rather asking about moral issues for the Div 1 team--ask about the moral issues of the School Admin, Coaching, players that CHOOSE to play a Div 1 team in exhibition!!

 

[Carnac]

D1 teams cannot play against each other except in scrimmages so they are always playing lesser divisions.

UCMiami, this is a dynamic I'm not familiar with. Would you expound on this (and enlighten me) please?

 

[JordyG]

JordyG--99 times out of 100 I agree with your---Ask your self; Why do Div 2 teams play top Div 1 teams if not for Money--it's not a moral issue--it's score means nothing--The Div 2 teams AGREE to be BEATEN--after 50 points--to steal a phrase WhAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?? Beaten is beaten. Is 129 point more humiliating than 71??
I am NOT a Brenda lover--but she is no worse than all other top div 1 coaches. I'm not a fan of drubbing opponents--I was taught it was morally wrong to run your opponent into the mud--but this is Business!. Accept that or year after year you will be having the same moral battle.
\
My cousins preteen daughter had leukemia--it took her life, years of doctors, hospitals.

My argument against Frese here is not with Bluefield accepting the invitation. It's with their getting one at all. Of course BS (sorry) would accept. What D2 school with such a faltering program wouldn't? It can only benefit them. But how about extending an invitation to Bently, Alaska-Anchorage, Augusta, Emporia, Lubbock Christian, or even Winona State? Any of the teams that made the D2 Dance? At some point in the game any of those teams would present a problem for which BF's teams would have had to solve. Baylor had issues to solve during their match with Emporia. Where were the teaching moments for BF against Forgettable State?

3 months ago I've also had to deal with the death of my closest friend, my uncle due to bone cancer. Again, my issue is not with BF as a mother. There she has my admiration and sympathy. That same sympathy is extended to your cousin, you and your family. That kind of loss is difficult to bear, and no mother should have to feel that loss.

 

[JordyG]

To the person that called BF a name in a now-deleted post: it's ironic that in a thread calling out Frese for a lack of class that a UConn fan would call her "pond scum".

Just sayin'.

Nan I agree that calling Frese "pond scum" is beyond the BY pale. But I thought the points he made were valid. I would like to re-post those comments with further deletions:

"1. When hired at MN (Lindsay Whalen's and Janelle McCarville soph years) "getting the HC job at MN is my dream job!" After 1 year she was hired HC at MD and at presser said, " Being hired as HC at MD is the job I've always dreamed of having and I'm looking forward to many great seasons here!"

2. When Harper & Langhorn were being recruited by UCONN and were considered a lock, right before signing day both girls received calls from BF about some nasty stuff at UCONN and the next day both girls signed with MD! Geno made some remark about HC's telling lies to steal players!

3. When MD won the NC in 2006 BF's head Asst. was a gentleman named Jeff Walz. He ran every huddle and was considered the power behind the throne. After he signed as HC at L'ville where he has shown how talented a coach he is! And this season, BF 2 top Assts. did most of the talking in their huddles.

4. If you watch BF during her pre-game inspirational speeches, 1/2 the team is pre occupied elsewhere!

5. After KML and Morgan Tuck were hurt UCONN beat MD, and BF said if one more AA got hurt Geno might finally have to coach at practices and games!

6. When all the talk about is UCONN winning bad for WBB the first one they talked to was Ms. Frese, knocking Geno & UCONN!"

I think these points are fair. Yet if you feel these are still out of bounds feel free to delete again.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Then Brenda in thinking a 2-20 D2 team will help her teams growth is not thinking very clearly. Or perhaps she anticipated that such a "great" recruiting classes egos were such eggshells that they needed to be galvanized by pummeling powderpuffs. And may I remind you that Emporia State and Lubbock Christian did well in D2 last year.

Hey Jordy -

What makes sense to one person does not make sense to another..... i know everyone loves to criticize Brenda..... but why I am i going to question her motives for scheduling Bluefield State...... why did we schedule Indiana University , not of Bloomington but of Pennsylvania..... I know they had winning record for their caliber.... but I am sure we could have scheduled better competition than someone we beat by 70 something....

Yes i know we are far better than MD, and BState is far weaker than IUP , but isn't the idea of an exhibition game to schedule someone with less talent than your league so you can practice in a quasi game situation, and work on improving your game and eliminating your kinks....

I am true national flag UConn over the top fan... I just don't see why people back up the dump truck on Brenda.....

But perhaps i am wrong with my opinion, and i should laugh at her and her scheduling foibles.....

You are prob right, and i defer to you on this argument!!

 

[BroadwayVa]

My argument against Frese here is not with Bluefield accepting the invitation. It's with their getting one at all. Of course BS (sorry) would accept. What D2 school with such a faltering program wouldn't? It can only benefit them. But how about extending an invitation to Bently, Alaska-Anchorage, Augusta, Emporia, Lubbock Christian, or even Winona State? Any of the teams that made the D2 Dance? At some point in the game any of those teams would present a problem for which BF's teams would have had to solve. Baylor had issues to solve during their match with Emporia. Where were the teaching moments for BF against Forgettable State?

3 months ago I've also had to deal with the death of my closest friend, my uncle due to bone cancer. Again, my issue is not with BF as a mother. There she has my admiration and sympathy. That same sympathy is extended to your cousin, you and your family. That kind of loss is difficult to bear, and no mother should have to feel that loss.

Thanks--I too think it would be great should those teams you mentioned were invited to make a tiny bit and travel to the East Coast and get a feel for Big time Women's BB. It is a bit unfair in a conversation about ones beliefs or morals or attitude to bring up family --sick or well--they are outside of a person professional function. Family of coaches should be off limits for good or evil.
However--we don't know who was offered or who turned who down- offers to play Div1 teams---I'm sure for every acceptance a dozen or more don't. Getting your behind handed to you on a silver platter can't be much fun--regardless of what you or your team gets from it.
No need for sympathy for lost relatives--you'd be doing that daily--you hit a point in life, if you survive, that everyone you knew are gone or going. Life is what it is--. The trick is to enjoy every minute and to accept those things once unacceptable. End of sermon.

 

[easttexastrash]

No team has to play a top 10 Div1 team in exhibitions---they know the results will be a beating--so rather asking about moral issues for the Div 1 team--ask about the moral issues of the School Admin, Coaching, players that CHOOSE to play a Div 1 team in exhibition!!

I agree 100%. The people who should be questioned are those who agree to put their players on the court against the Div I team. If I am a coach and I suspect that my team is going to be beaten by 70 - 100 points, I don't put my players in that position.

 

[easttexastrash]

I just don't see why people back up the dump truck on Brenda.....

I have wondered the same thing. I have never seen a reason to dislike her. She is a good coach that tries to convince her players that they can beat anybody, including UCONN. But that is what a good coach should do. Fans shouldn't be upset because she thinks that she has the talent to beat any other team in the country.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I have wondered the same thing. I have never seen a reason to dislike her. She is a good coach that tries to convince her players that they can beat anybody, including UCONN. But that is what a good coach should do. Fans shouldn't be upset because she thinks that she has the talent to beat any other team in the country.

For me it goes back to her recruit tampering with UConn. Plus she goes out of her way to say dumb, snarky stuff about Geno. Her whining jealousy is palpable.

 

[easttexastrash]

For me it goes back to her recruit tampering with UConn. Plus she goes out of her way to say dumb, snarky stuff about Geno. Her whining jealousy is palpable.

I am not familiar with this incident. What type of recruit tampering was she involved in?

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I am not familiar with this incident. What type of recruit tampering was she involved in?

Best left in the dust bin of history. However, in general, it was a case where people felt she used one of her recruits to influence Geno's verbal to jump at the least. Geno did not pursue it, but statements were made. I think they have patched it up, meaning Geno is way over anything about Brenda Frese and is now killing her with kindness.

 

[BroadwayVa]

IIRC, it's usually in the $15,000-20,000 range.

Going back 10 years or so---Someone, i believe it was Geno, was asked this question and The numbers spoken then was 50/60 k---Geno in some issues tends to puff the data a bit. But then it may not have been Geno. It seems as though these '2' teams are traveling and being drubbed for chump change (compared to the money Div 1 teams throw around. )

 

[Charliebball]

I have wondered the same thing. I have never seen a reason to dislike her. She is a good coach that tries to convince her players that they can beat anybody, including UCONN. But that is what a good coach should do. Fans shouldn't be upset because she thinks that she has the talent to beat any other team in the country.

Folks here aren't particularly fond of her because of her snippy attitude towards UConn............don't think it has much to do with her ability to coach a team.........I was at the UConn - MD game at MSG and the Terps gave the Huskies all they could handle from beginning to end.............

 

[BroadwayVa]

The National team has done it a couple of times I believe, once during Tara's reign when they were playing together for the full year, and once in the early 2000s as well. Otherwise it is set up by the NCAA to not be competitive generally - D1 teams cannot play against each other except in scrimmages so they are always playing lesser divisions. But i think Baylor would say they had a competitive game for there first preseason one.

No disagreement--I think I read somewhere where Div 1 teams could not play another Div 1 except in Tourneys (paradise jam) or NCAA's --other than that they must schedule and count the games. That is why Div 1 play Div 2 in scrimmages and they don't count in games played.
But as usual this is the output of a less than knowledgeable brain. I'd like your comment on that--

 

[BigBird]

I am true national flag UConn over the top fan... I just don't see why people back up the dump truck on Brenda.....

The more one knows about her, the worse she looks. When she was just starting out as an assistant at Iowa State she recruited her sister, Stacy, who immediately joined up at ISU with sister Brenda. The only problem was that at the time, Stacy was a scholarship player at Iowa. When howls of protest arose, Brenda's response could have been neatly summarized with a single extended digit. At the minimum, BF comes across to me as an arrogant pragmatist.

 

[UcMiami]

UCMiami, this is a dynamic I'm not familiar with. Would you expound on this (and enlighten me) please?

There are all sorts of rules about practice, preseason games, and 'in-season' games in the NCAA rule book. Specific to D1 preseason games, a D1 school cannot schedule another D1 school as a 'preseason game' to which the public is invited (or allowed) to watch. If they want to practice against another D1 team they are permitted to do so, but if they do, it must be a closed door session, and to make sure it isn't just a 'secret' game, they are not supposed to record the score as it happens. (I am sure the coaches are charting shots during the scrimmage, so after the fact they could tally it up and figure out who 'won', but the players and coaches would not know while it is actually happening.)

The only reason I can think of for this rule to be in existence is that the NCAA is being serious about how many 'competitive' games the athletes can play in a season (those rules are strictly enforced) and they are concerned that some teams might in fact be tempted to use preseason games for serious competition as opposed to glorified practice sessions.

On MD's blowout - it is what it is, but an interesting stat to me: Uconn shot 70 times against IUP with 41 in the first half and 29 in the second - about a 59/41 split. That clearly shows a significant slow down in the pace in which they played as those who watched could clearly see. MD shot 89 times in their game spilt 47/42 or about 53/47 which is pretty close to identical, which suggests MD was playing the same style from start to finish of the game. Clearly that is Brenda's prerogative and as a Uconn fan I don't really care.

But as a student of the game and of coaching strategies the question that comes up (and again not having watched any of the game) is Why? It is like going to an hour long practice and the coach saying, OK, we need some work on running three man breaks, so we are going to spend the hour running three man breaks against no opposition. Tomorrow, maybe will spend the hour on running our pick and role. 42 shots taken in the second half (with 14 foul shots as well) means that in a 20 minute half you were getting close to 2.5 shots per minute of game time, or with your opponent probably having possession for about 8 minutes, a shot every 14 seconds of offensive possession. Drop out 5 seconds per possession to get the ball into the front court and you are shooting within 9 seconds on average. That doesn't sound like any kind of 'lets work on half court sets' or 'I want you to pass five times each possession before you shoot' kind of 'work' being put in. And that is just the offensive end - what about changing defense and working on various zones.