State of the Program | Page 3 | The Boneyard

State of the Program

intlzncster said:
AG is technically a freshman. Chill.

Kemba took 70 games to become the man.
Shabazz took over 100 to become the man.

Alterique has played 26.
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Walker was a huge part of a final four team as a freshman.

Not that I don’t think Gilbert has promise he’s nowhere near that level apples to apples today.
 
whaler11 said:
Walker was a huge part of a final four team as a freshman.

Not that I don’t think Gilbert has promise he’s nowhere near that level apples to apples today.
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The eye test shows us that he doesn't have Kemba's burst or quickness. Comparing squads is kind of pointless, though. A player being forced into a leading role on a mediocre/bad team is a lot different than being a supporting player on a great one.
 
whaler11 said:
Walker was a huge part of a final four team as a freshman.

Not that I don’t think Gilbert has promise he’s nowhere near that level apples to apples today.
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Not how I remember it. Couldn't shoot worth a lick. Overpenetrated more than Gilbert. Had that one big game in the tournament. Kemba showed a hint of what could be, but exactly zero people predicted his Jr year ahead of time ie irl NPOY

Not remotely an apples to apples comparison though. Stepping back, kemba played with much,much, much much better players. And having thabeet behind you changes the defensive game entirely for a guard.

Most importantly,kemba wasn't coming off 2 Major shoulder surgeries and two years on the shelf rehabbing.
 
intlzncster said:
Not how I remember it. Couldn't shoot worth a lick. Overpenetrated more than Gilbert. Had that one big game in the tournament.

Not remotely an apples to apples comparison though. Stepping back, kemba played with much,much, much much better players. And having thabeet behind you changes the defensive game entirely for a guard.

Most importantly,kemba wasn't coming off 2 Major shoulder surgeries and two years on the shelf rehabbing.
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I remember Kemba was a mess his freshman year.

Literally, a mess. A good mess sometimes, but a mess.
 
Gilbert’s handle should be better than it has been of late, and he has to stop driving into the trees and throwing up with no chance. His defense is very good and his shot is better than expected. Most of all, he’s right in the head. I believe he’s going to leave here with a distinguished college career.
 
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Tired of hearing no talent. Changing the team isn't working. Everyone is saying JA is in a funk. No, he is not handling the ball all the time like last year. We have downgraded the schedule, added talent and hired a fix it coach. Team is not playing better to me. State of the program....still up in the air.
 
Come on. Kemba played 61.5% of the minutes for a team that went 31-5 against competition that Gilbert would drown against.

Of course the injuries mitigate the comparison but Walker played in the FF at 18 and Gilbert is already 21.

I’m trying to play nice but I don’t think you realize the curve you are grading these guys as compared to the past.

Also, Kemba shot a bad percentage on small sample of threes but shot 53% from 2. Gilbert has made a good percentage of three and shoots 37% from 2.
 
Madmannsucks said:
Tired of hearing no talent. Changing the team isn't working. Everyone is saying JA is in a funk. No, he is not handling the ball all the time like last year. We have downgraded the schedule, added talent and hired a fix it coach. Team is not playing better to me. State of the program....still up in the air.
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I have no idea what you are watching if you don’t think they are playing better this year. Ball movement, off the ball movement are dramatically better. Defense has been spotty and needs to be more consistent. Shooting has remained mostly bad.

Is it the talent? I’d argue it is the way the talent fits together, it doesn’t. You are right, Jalen is better at the PG spot, but so is Al. Al can shoot so he isn’t useless at the SG like Jalen. We’ve got 4 guards under 6’2”. We’ve got two skinny wings who aren’t physical. We have one injured PF, and another who can’t score, so the skinny wings play PF. We have a center who can’t jump, and one who can’t play defense. That’s the roster. Do they all suck? No. But they don’t compliment each other.

Now look at next year. Al will have the PG spot with a freshman backup to learn.
CV will correctly be a SG with Boughknight and Adams behind him most likely. A 6’5” SG and a 6’4” combo guard.
Wilson, Polley and Adams can fight out who will play SF
Diarra and dynamic shotblocker Akok at PF, with Whaley for depth
Carlton and whoever else we can bring in at the 5.

It’s not great until we get two more bigs, but you can see how these prices fit better.
 
2 more quality bigs to start to become a force. Sounds so easy huh?
 
freescooter said:
Please tell me when Wilson did anything to make you think he is more than an over hyped bench guy.
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Wilson is a shorter version of Whaley and a classic Ollie recruit
 
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The bottom line the talent is questionable from years gone by on this team. There is no true leader which is a problem and will continue to be a problem until someone takes the team over as their own.
 
whaler11 said:
Come on. Kemba played 61.5% of the minutes for a team that went 31-5 against competition that Gilbert would drown against.

Of course the injuries mitigate the comparison but Walker played in the FF at 18 and Gilbert is already 21.

I’m trying to play nice but I don’t think you realize the curve you are grading these guys as compared to the past.

Also, Kemba shot a bad percentage on small sample of threes but shot 53% from 2. Gilbert has made a good percentage of three and shoots 37% from 2.
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And yet he was still a bit player. He played with one of our headiest/steadiest PGs in history. One of the most dominating defensive centers in MCBB history. One of the most athletic rangy fowards in UCONN history. One of the biggest beasts down low. And so on and so on. Leaving Gilbert aside, there's only one player on this team who would even get minutes on 2009 (Jalen). And he wouldn't even start.

Kemba had infinite wiggle room. He could make mistake after mistake, and most of the time, it wouldn't matter.

You know the likely reason Kemba made a better percentage of 2's? Cause when he drove the lane, he had Adrien, Robinson, Thabeet and Adrien to dish or lob to. Defensive guys had to be honest. Or he could pass out to Dyson, AJP, heck even Austrie for outside shots.

Gilbert has friggin Carlton and Polley inside. When our guards drive the lane, the defense knows they have nobody to pass it to. They just converge and that's that. It looks like trees because it is.

Whaler the curve is friggin massive. And it's the only way to make a fair comparison. Kemba would look quite similar to Gilbert this year on this team. At least Gilbert can stroke it a bit. Teams would just back off Kemba crow the lane and be done with it.

The easiest way to make a player look better is to play him with good players. And conversely, the easiest way to make a player look worse is to play him with poor players.

And by cavalierly writing off the injury thing, you're taking away from reasoned analysis. What the hell does age matter when you can't practice or train and all you are doing is fixing a broken machine hoping it works right again? You don't get better by merely growing older.

By the time the NCAA tournament rolled around, Kemba had far, far more mileage under his treads than Gilbert has now.
 
Stainmaster said:
LMAO
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intlzncster said:
And yet he was still a bit player. He played with one of our headiest/steadiest PGs in history. One of the most dominating defensive centers in MCBB history. One of the most athletic rangy fowards in UCONN history. One of the biggest beasts down low. And so on and so on. Leaving Gilbert aside, there's only one player on this team who would even get minutes on 2009 (Jalen). And he wouldn't even start.

Kemba had infinite wiggle room. He could make mistake after mistake, and most of the time, it wouldn't matter.

You know the likely reason Kemba made a better percentage of 2's? Cause when he drove the lane, he had Adrien, Robinson, Thabeet and Adrien to dish or lob to. Defensive guys had to be honest. Or he could pass out to Dyson, AJP, heck even Austrie for outside shots.

Gilbert has friggin Carlton and Polley inside. When our guards drive the lane, the defense knows they have nobody to pass it to. They just converge and that's that. It looks like trees because it is.

Whaler the curve is friggin massive. And it's the only way to make a fair comparison. Kemba would look quite similar to Gilbert this year on this team. At least Gilbert can stroke it a bit. Teams would just back off Kemba crow the lane and be done with it.

The easiest way to make a player look better is to play him with good players. And conversely, the easiest way to make a player look worse is to play him with poor players.

And by cavalierly writing off the injury thing, you're taking away from reasoned analysis. What the hell does age matter when you can't practice or train and all you are doing is fixing a broken machine hoping it works right again? You don't get better by merely growing older.

By the time the NCAA tournament rolled around, Kemba had far, far more mileage under his treads than Gilbert has now.
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I guess we’ll never know but I believe Kemba on this 2018 team would be light years better than Gilbert.

That being said who is the most valuable piece on this roster current and future value nobody but Gilbert has a claim.
 
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whaler11 said:
I guess we’ll never know but I believe Kemba on this 2018 team would be light years better than Gilbert.
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Of course, we're completely blowing wind back and forth here.

My overly simplistic breakdown is Kemba couldn't shoot anything outside of a floater (remember he hadn't developed the change of pace, the stepback, etc).

So, stack three guys in the middle, give him nothing to pass to, and what do you get? A lot of missed/blocked layups and not much else.

And again, give me a fully healthy Gilbert from Day 1, starting this year as a freshman, and I think he'd look different. jmo

That being said who is the most valuable piece on this roster current and future value nobody but Gilbert has a claim.
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Excuse me for being obtuse, but are you saying Gilbert is the only one with real high end major potential? If so, I'm in full agreement. Feels like a CUSA team right now (hyperbole for emphasis).

Wilson has the ceiling, based on measurables alone, but he's got a long way to go to reach it.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
This may very well be the worst sports comparison I've ever seen. Not just on this board and not just in this sport.
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Whaley is taller - Fact

Glad I got that out of the way. Now the part that you don’t want to hear. This is when I prove you wrong.

They have career scoring averages of 2 and 3 points respectively. They are within 5% of each other for FT percentage. Whaley hasn’t attempted a 3 but Sid is shooting 20% so we almost wish he didn’t attempt a 3. They both average 2 rebounds a game and they both average 1 block per game.

Seems to me that Sid is a shorter version of Whaley.
 
UofCT2009 said:
Whaley is taller - Fact

Glad I got that out of the way. Now the part that you don’t want to hear. This is when I prove you wrong.

They have career scoring averages of 2 and 3 points respectively. They are within 5% of each other for FT percentage. Whaley hasn’t attempted a 3 but Sid is shooting 20% so we almost wish he didn’t attempt a 3. They both average 2 rebounds a game and they both average 1 block per game.

Seems to me that Sid is a shorter version of Whaley.
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I thought you were at least going to mount some off the wall defense about how they had similar games. Instead you literally just defaulted to reading me their stats. Not doing a great job of pulling this hawt take out of the gutter.
 
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freescooter said:
This has been my view since he was hired. I think Mike Anthony is on target. Adams is good not great and is surrounded by a bunch of mediocre players. This year is merely getting through the season without being embarrassed. An NIT bid would be gravy. The Hurley era starts for real next year.
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The NIT requires a winning record. That is doubtful based on the last few games.
 
UofCT2009 said:
Why do you disagree?
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Wow, really going to keep this one going. Two different stratospheres athletically, one fancies himself an outside player, the other almost exclusively sets up in the post area. Sid, without much success, generally tries to either jack up an outside shot, or drive the ball. Whaley pretty rarely puts the ball on the floor and looks to either pass out or take a mid range jumper. Do you want me to keep on going? Aside from them not being pretty good so far, blocking some shots, and playing the same position, I have no earthly idea what you're on about with this.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
Why do you disagree?
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I don’t anymore. You’re analysis changed my mind. Wilson is not a shorter version of Whaley afterall. They are the same height despite what their bio says. They have completely different skill sets. Only one is limited offensively, at least one of them is a good shooter, one of them is a good rebounder, one of them is a good passer, one of them is a shut down defender, one is way more athletic than the other. One is good and one is bad. You’re right!
 
whaler11 said:
Walker was a huge part of a final four team as a freshman.

Not that I don’t think Gilbert has promise he’s nowhere near that level apples to apples today.
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I don't think this is fair at all. Early on Kemba had some great moments and some bad ones. Alterique has a lot of the same problems Kemba had earlier in his career of overpenetrating. Kemba did a little more overall and Alterique is the better shooter. People seem to forget it wasn't always so smooth for Walker, he was often out of control as a sophomore.

Alterique is a stud and we'll see it more and more over time. We can only hope he makes a jump like Kemba made his junior year but that type of leap is extremely rare, Kemba is an all-timer. Alterique will be damn good for us though.
 
intlzncster said:
Of course, we're completely blowing wind back and forth here.

My overly simplistic breakdown is Kemba couldn't shoot anything outside of a floater (remember he hadn't developed the change of pace, the stepback, etc).

So, stack three guys in the middle, give him nothing to pass to, and what do you get? A lot of missed/blocked layups and not much else.

And again, give me a fully healthy Gilbert from Day 1, starting this year as a freshman, and I think he'd look different. jmo



Excuse me for being obtuse, but are you saying Gilbert is the only one with real high end major potential? If so, I'm in full agreement. Feels like a CUSA team right now (hyperbole for emphasis).

Wilson has the ceiling, based on measurables alone, but he's got a long way to go to reach it.
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Yes, I was saying his ceiling is higher than anyone else on the roster today.
 
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