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So What Happens to BE Football if . . .

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What if the mentioned Big 14 with Texas and Notre Dame as Hybrids also invited Villanova, St Johns, Georgetown, and Marquette to join the new league? We would have a 14 fb and 20 basketball league that is superior to the proposed Big East 12, 20 league. The league basketball tournament for this new league would be at MSG because we have ST Johns. This would be by far the best hoops conference in the country and would offer a football league that is superior to the ACC. The big losers are Providence, Seton Hall, and Depaul. 3 programs that are dying anyway. They join the A-10 where they belong.
 
metsfan2323 said:
What if the mentioned Big 14 with Texas and Notre Dame as Hybrids also invited Villanova, St Johns, Georgetown, and Marquette to join the new league? We would have a 14 fb and 20 basketball league that is superior to the proposed Big East 12, 20 league. The league basketball tournament for this new league would be at MSG because we have ST Johns. This would be by far the best hoops conference in the country and would offer a football league that is superior to the ACC. The big losers are Providence, Seton Hall, and Depaul. 3 programs that are dying anyway. They join the A-10 where they belong.
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Yes. We're going to leave some basketball onlies behind, ruining their athletic programs, but some other basketball schools will put their trust in us and not risk us doing the same to them down the road, rather than keep the Big East name and control over what would be, for basketball, a top 6 conference. Yes, the guys running those schools are that stupid.
 
businesslawyer said:
Yes. We're going to leave some basketball onlies behind, ruining their athletic programs, but some other basketball schools will put their trust in us and not risk us doing the same to them down the road, rather than keep the Big East name and control over what would be, for basketball, a top 6 conference. Yes, the guys running those schools are that stupid.
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Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?
 
metsfan2323 said:
Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?
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For the 1,000,000 time, if the football only schools thought it was in their best interests to split it would have happened already. The Big East Commissioner isn't holding the football schools back from doing anything. The University Presidents of the football only schools control their own destiny.

Obviously after a full of this year, I'm going to put my faith into feasibility studies done by top flight athletic programs, over random internet message board users.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
For the 1,000,000 time, if the football only schools thought it was in their best interests to split it would have happened already. The Big East Commissioner isn't holding the football schools back from doing anything. The University Presidents of the football only schools control their own destiny.

Obviously after a full of this year, I'm going to put my faith into feasibility studies done by top flight athletic programs, over random internet message board users.
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This. This fallacy that the football schools are controlled by the bballs is largely nonsense, the bballs know their athletic programs are in the gutter if the footballs split off.

GET RID OF PC, SHU, DEPAUL, AND MARQUETTE.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
Yeah. Those hoops onlies and all their big city markets and Final Fours are killing the conference.
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OK Joe Lapchick whatever you say, but they are killing the conference. Football drives the bus these days in big time college sports, not Lou Carneseca's sweater. Big city markets you say? Christ, Geno Auriemma could fit more people in his backyard for a barbecue than they could fit in all the on campus Catholic hoops only gyms.
 
huskyrob1 said:
OK Joe Lapchick whatever you say, but they are killing the conference. Football drives the bus these days in big time college sports, not Lou Carneseca's sweater. Big city markets you say? Christ, Geno Auriemma could fit more people in his backyard for a barbecue than they could fit in all the on campus Catholic hoops only gyms.
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How, specifically, are the basketball only schools "killing the conference"?

So what if the basketball onlies have small on campus arenas...they play the majority of their games in NBA arenas in big markets.

Nova-76ers
Georgetown-Wizards
Marq-Bucks
SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks
 
ConnHuskBask said:
SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks
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The Nets are moving to Brooklyn and St John's is in Queens. Both are on Long Island. The Knicks play in Manhattan. Seton Hall will be alone in Newark.
 
metsfan2323 said:
Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?
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You are missing the point. When we tell Georgetown, "we're bailing on Seton Hall, but trust us never to do that to you even though football comes first for us and we don't know where that is headed," why in the world is Georgetown saying "sure thing." The Catholics will keep the Big East name and their presence in the largest cities, add more Catholics and have a damn good league that they control and have common goals with. Why do you see that we have a conflict being with them and not realize they have the same issue of non-identical goals.
 
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Butchy said:
The Nets are moving to Brooklyn and St John's is in Queens. Both are on Long Island. The Knicks play in Manhattan. Seton Hall will be alone in Newark.
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I'm not even sure if you're being serious or not...Do you really think Brooklyn and Queens are on Long Island? lol.

The Nets aren't taking the arena with them. The Prudential Center is still a brand new NHL arena.

St. John's, when good, draws very well at MSG, also known as the world's most famous arena.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
How, specifically, are the basketball only schools "killing the conference"?

So what if the basketball onlies have small on campus arenas...they play the majority of their games in NBA arenas in big markets.

Nova-76ers
Georgetown-Wizards
Marq-Bucks
SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks
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Gee, I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask BC, Miami, Virginia Tech, WVU or any other Big East football school who would jump at the chance to leave. Yeah I know, what about TCU? I'm still scratching my head on that one. That's like the Yankees building their new stadium in Cuba.
 
businesslawyer said:
You are missing the point. When we tell Georgetown, "we're bailing on Seton Hall, but trust us never to do that to you even though football comes first for us and we don't know where that is headed," why in the world is Georgetown saying "sure thing." The Catholics will keep the Big East name and their presence in the largest cities, add more Catholics and have a damn good league that they control and have common goals with. Why do you see that we have a conflict being with them and not realize they have the same issue of non-identical goals.
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I understand what you are saying, but if we did eventually throw Georgetown and the rest under the bus as you suggest, wouldn't the existing Catholic league invite them in immediately? Point being that Catholic league option is always going to be there for them as a fallback. If they could make more money with the football schools in the meantime why not do it?

If the Catholic schools are such a cohesive unit how did BC ever leave the conference?

I'm not buying the idea that the Big East Conference without the football schools is going to be relevant for very long. St Johns / Georgetown when neither are ranked will draw flies. Heck St Johns doesn't draw very well right now. Seton Hall? That Seton Hall / St Joseph matchup will be lucky to draw 4000 people.
 
huskyrob1 said:
Gee, I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask BC, Miami, Virginia Tech, WVU or any other Big East football school who would jump at the chance to leave. Yeah I know, what about TCU? I'm still scratching my head on that one. That's like the Yankees building their new stadium in Cuba.
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So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.
 
Uh, ConnHuskBask, Brooklyn and Queens are on Long Island. Are you having a geographic moment?
 
ConnHuskBask said:
So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.
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I'd like to hear how Seton Hall adds value.
 
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ConnHuskBask said:
So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.
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Well suppose the Basketball only schools did play big time D1 football. That would instantly make the Big East a 16 team super conf with a league championship game, a major TV contract, etc, lots of dollars to go around, more and better recruits, but sadly they don't play football. Conversely what do you think the president of MSG, CBS, the Big East Tournament committee and ESPN would do if all of a sudden 6 Big East schools no longer played basketball? They would and Dave Gavitt would personally drive to each of the 6 schools and shoot each schools AD. Both sports can generate revenue in a top program, but football much more so, that's why it drives the bus these days. I mean would you rather be an owner of an NFL franchise or an NBA team?
 
ConnHuskBask said:
So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.
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Oh and BTW Villanova does play football, there's been talk of them going D1 for a few years now.
 
Except for Georgetown and Nova. The basketball schools are parasites.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.
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Well, you are wrong. They would be very relevant, particularly if they added Xavier and Butler. In case you weren't paying attention, starting in 2006 with George Mason, there have been quite a few non-football schools sending teams to the Final Four. Football is not necessary to compete in basketball. And with the explosion of TV rights agreements, a conference of big city basketball teams with lots of tradition is going to get a big TV deal.
 
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Thinking about expansion candidates if we need to add one or two teams. I think there is a consensus that ECU, UCF and Memphis are pretty much worthless. There is some interest in Houston because it used to be in a major conference and it has a huge market. Even if the Big East gets a huge payday, BCU and Maryland are probably not leaving the ACC. The Big East doesn't want to add numbers just to add numbers because that could hurt the league down the road if Super-conferences actually happen. Lean and nimble is good.

I have always thought that Temple as football only was attractive if Villanova didn't upgrade, and there is no chance of Villanova upgrading now. I would not completely discount UMass in a year, if WVU leaves. Make them a probationary member for 5 years or something, make them buy into the league, have them clean the bathrooms, whatever you want them to do, they will effectively be pledges. This gives us an in with Massachusetts and Boston, and would be easy to extricate from if Superconferences happen. If someone can tell me the difference in national perception between UCF and UMass? 90% of casual fans won't know that one is in a mid-major and one is upgrading from FCS. They will know that UCF is a compass school from Florida, while UMass is the anchor campus of the UMass university system.
 
What are you talking about? I'm agreeing that the basketball schools add value.

Also, no kidding BK and Queens are techinically on Long Island. My point was that you were trying to marganilize St Johns by simply. Referring to it as being "on Long Island" when its moreso referred to as a borough of NYC.

Seton Hall adds value, because it is part of the bball onlies-which is all or nothing.

The 8 hoops schools definitely add value to our contracts, and its all or nothing with Them. No PC means to GTown etc.
 
The basketball schools would become a glorified version of the Atlantic 10. Lucky to be Temple, actually.
 
I don't know how everybody has the patience to keep speculating on this stuff through all the rumors and innuendos and ever-changing landscape of college football. Dreaming up all of these scenarios that will almost certainly not come into play. I get why it interests people, but I just don't have the endurance for all of the endless analysis and discussion without any action.
 
Irish Loop said:
I don't know how everybody has the patience to keep speculating on this stuff through all the rumors and innuendos and ever-changing landscape of college football. Dreaming up all of these scenarios that will almost certainly not come into play. I get why it interests people, but I just don't have the endurance for all of the endless analysis and discussion without any action.
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I'm not sure you can say it's been dreamed up. The BE is practically on record as having invited 3 B12 schools into the league. They've met with other conference commissioners. Beyond that, the link I provided from the Northwestern poster is coming from someone definitely connected to the B10 offices. He posted and mentioned Nebraska's invitation LONG before Nebraska was mentioned as a candidate anywhere. In the very first days that Missouri was mentioned as a B10 candidate, he threw cold water on it, said never, and that Nebraska would start playing B10 football in a year. I also think he was used by the B10 office to provide all sorts of misinformation meant to pressure Notre Dame.

We're seeing this again right now. Oklahoma is leaking about the Pac-10 to pressure teams into moving, Texas is talking about the ACC in order to pressure the Pac10 or Big10, the SEC is mentioning WV to shake loose Missouri and to prevent any legal action from the Big12, etc.
 
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