So What Happens to BE Football if . . .

[buckley503]

OU stays committed to the BIG Whatever
A&M goes to the SEC
BYU replaces A&M in the Big Whatever
WVU gets an invite to the SEC and accepts
Big 10, ACC, and Pac 12 all have no intentions of expanding

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

SEC has set the precedent with aTm that any team joining their conference needs to get approval from the conference they are leaving. Do you really believe that all 16 other Big East teams will sign off on that? Or is the SEC only using that criteria with the Big 12 and not the Big East?

And if it did happen, then the Big East would just go on as planned. TCU would take the spot of WVU, and the Big East is exactly where they were before the TCU for WVU swap.

 

[buckley503]

Forgot about those Horned Frogs coming.
They better still come.

 

[freescooter]

Ultimately, if the B-12 doesn't collapse things just go on as they currently are, and in time the Big East adds Central florida, Villanova, Houston and one other from the usual suspects to get to 12. If the media deal is as good as some htink, maybe BC and maryland replace Central florida and someone else. Is it a setback? well, yeah. It is never good to lose the most identifiable member of your confeerence. Is it a disaster? probably not. It jsut puts us back to where we are currently instead of advancing the conference as TCU's additon would have.

 

[businesslawyer]

Ultimately, if the B-12 doesn't collapse things just go on as they currently are, and in time the Big East adds Central florida, Villanova, Houston and one other from the usual suspects to get to 12. If the media deal is as good as some htink, maybe BC and maryland replace Central florida and someone else. Is it a setback? well, yeah. It is never good to lose the most identifiable member of your confeerence. Is it a disaster? probably not. It jsut puts us back to where we are currently instead of advancing the conference as TCU's additon would have.

What he said.

 

[Huskyfan990411]

My ideal situation for the Big East if WVU was to leave would be to do the following:

1. Tell ND either all in, or all out with your programs. So bring in football or find a new conference for all other sports.
2. Convince BC that the ACC move was a mistake. Hate BC but it would pull in the Boston market and also create great matchups with us, cuse, rutgers, etc
3. Bring in Houston and UCF. This would give TCU and USF a local away game and a solid in state rival as well as 2 decent media markets.
4. Invite Temple to get the league to 12. Not the most exciting move but I think Temple will stay fairly competitive and it gives you the Philly market

Then create 2 divisions:

UConn
Cuse
BC
ND
Rutgers
Temple

Cincy
USF
TCU
Houston
Pitt
UCF

 

[junglehusky]

At this point I might not want to push ND out since the most likely outcome is they go to the B1G, who would then likely add at least one more school to go to an even number. If the B1G expands, then superconference Armageddon is back on the table.

 

[businesslawyer]

Pushing ND out at the moment is the death of the Big East as we know it. However, as we have many posters who hate Notre Dame more than they like the Big East, it won't be the last time we see this faux toughness be suggested here.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All of this expansion stuff has showed us a few things. First, expansion will happen. The Big 12 will dissolve eventually, this year, next year, in two years, it will happen. Adding UCF, ECU, Houston, etc., barring one of them vaulting to Boise/TCU status, would be a TERRIBLE idea. This whole expansion fiasco has shown us that filling up valuable slots in the conference with very mediocre programs that, while some are in decent markets, they don't command attention from those markets. The possible exception here is Houston, but again, they haven't proven it on the field by winning the big time games and becoming a media darling as TCU and Boise have.

The Big East's greatest asset right now is the TV negotiation. We absolutely have to get to that negotiation is as good of a shape as we can, hope to cash in, and be able to invite new members based on that new contract. Adding ECU, Memphis, etc. all do nothing to bolster that TV deal because they're not programs that any networks is going to pay any more for. Honestly, it looks like the best scenario is to hope that the A&M saga is dragged on and delayed for at least one more year (unlikely), or that WVU is not invited to the SEC, so we can have a full roster of teams to negotiate with ESPN/NBC/Fox with. With that deal, we can then hopefully be the aggressor in filling our slots with BCS programs, like the MD's, the KU's, hell, maybe even the Jesuits, etc. to join our league because they can make more money here. This is all about TV, it's all about finding the best path to making money. The CUSA teams do not help us do that, and will only end up taking up space while not solidifying the conference from a raid at all.

If A&M does go, and WVU does bolt to the SEC, we need to jump on the Big 12 remnants right away, as the conference seems to have set up the pieces for already. We need as much BCS-caliber names as possible.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

...Hate BC but it would pull in the Boston market ...

This is where you lost me! BC would pull in the Boston Market?

 

[uc1974]

Faux toughness. I like it. Franglish at its best!

 

[freescooter]

Agree that there is no way to force the Irish to leave...and it wouldn't be helpful right now if they did leave. That said, if the league were to split, I would want to get something more from Notre Dame than we currently get in order to let them continue the current relationship. Perfect world, they become a member for football, but we know it isn't a perfect world. I'd hope it could be some form of long term relationship to play 2-3 big east teams home-home each year. It is a little disingenous in my mind to be calling for the Irish to join for football when we don't make a comparable demand on any other non-football school. As long as there are non-football members, I'm not sure why Notre Dame is any different from St Johns.

 

[Tommyboy]

This is where you lost me! BC would pull in the Boston Market?

mmmmmm, Turkey Carver Combo.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Agree that there is no way to force the Irish to leave...and it wouldn't be helpful right now if they did leave. That said, if the league were to split, I would want to get something more from Notre Dame than we currently get in order to let them continue the current relationship. Perfect world, they become a member for football, but we know it isn't a perfect world. I'd hope it could be some form of long term relationship to play 2-3 big east teams home-home each year. It is a little disingenous in my mind to be calling for the Irish to join for football when we don't make a comparable demand on any other non-football school. As long as there are non-football members, I'm not sure why Notre Dame is any different from St Johns.

We get revenue from ND, especially with respect to bowl tie-ins and payouts. We're able to negotiate bowl tie-ins with ND, despite them taking a spot from a BE team, but I'm almost positive the conference gets revenue when ND plays in those bowl games.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Taking a step back, I am so glad that the conference 'big bang' did not happen last year and was delayed (whether it be this year or a few years from now when it all goes down). Think about where we are now versus where we were a year ago.

We are much better off at every level of the organization:

- President (Herbst >>>>> Hogan/Austin)
- Athletic Director (Pendergast/TBD >>>>> Hathaway)
- Football Program (just reached our 1st BCS game and continue to grow program, vs coming off a Papa Johns Bowl game)
- Other Sports Strength (Another Men's BBall Championship, Another Women's Final Four, 1st Baseball Super Regional, etc)

I am much more confident with the leadership and connections we have going into a political realignment scenario now that I was a year ago. And our Athletic Department is in much better shape as well. If the conference big bang happened in 2010, there was a bit of a chance we would be left out. But with our current roster and portfolio, I am confident that we will end up in a good place (whether it be a re-orged Big East, ACC, B10, etc).

 

[freescooter]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All of this expansion stuff has showed us a few things. First, expansion will happen. The Big 12 will dissolve eventually, this year, next year, in two years, it will happen. Adding UCF, ECU, Houston, etc., barring one of them vaulting to Boise/TCU status, would be a TERRIBLE idea. This whole expansion fiasco has shown us that filling up valuable slots in the conference with very mediocre programs that, while some are in decent markets, they don't command attention from those markets. The possible exception here is Houston, but again, they haven't proven it on the field by winning the big time games and becoming a media darling as TCU and Boise have.

The Big East's greatest asset right now is the TV negotiation. We absolutely have to get to that negotiation is as good of a shape as we can, hope to cash in, and be able to invite new members based on that new contract. Adding ECU, Memphis, etc. all do nothing to bolster that TV deal because they're not programs that any networks is going to pay any more for. Honestly, it looks like the best scenario is to hope that the A&M saga is dragged on and delayed for at least one more year (unlikely), or that WVU is not invited to the SEC, so we can have a full roster of teams to negotiate with ESPN/NBC/Fox with. With that deal, we can then hopefully be the aggressor in filling our slots with BCS programs, like the MD's, the KU's, hell, maybe even the Jesuits, etc. to join our league because they can make more money here. This is all about TV, it's all about finding the best path to making money. The CUSA teams do not help us do that, and will only end up taking up space while not solidifying the conference from a raid at all.

If A&M does go, and WVU does bolt to the SEC, we need to jump on the Big 12 remnants right away, as the conference seems to have set up the pieces for already. We need as much BCS-caliber names as possible.

BB,

Of course you're right if the Big Bang happens. That wasn't the premise of my answer, though. Essentailly the question was what happens if the only outcomes of all this falderal are that A&M goes to the SEC to be replaced by BYU and West Virginia leaves the Big East. In that scenario, I don't think much changes from the surrent situation. We simply move on and TCU replaces West Virginia as the bellcow at least for the moment, and Big East expansion occurrs eventually with the usual suspects. We also need a team or teams to finsih 11-1, 10-2, 11-1, 12-0 for the next few years. that more than anything would solve many of the League's perception problems.

 

[gioff23]

Invite Baylor!

 

[WestCoastHusky]

One thing we learned is that staying at 9 is suicide in this environment. BE has to grow if only for security. I don't believe B12 will make it past this year. There are just too many damaged relationships there where no one is trusting anyone else. OU's next move could doom the conference. Why would OU stay if they got the PAC-12 option without Texas? I believe PAC-12 would be very dumb if they don't add a program of OU's caliber now if they are available. So, it is up to OU to devide if B12 will be around or not. Ultimately, OU will probably go to the PAC-12 because of money and academics.

This leaves the other B12 leftovers. They got major pressure on them to act as well. They know BE has to get our membership set before 9/12. If they don't act now, BE might expand with other schools and they might be left in the dust if B12 blows up. Would the B12 leftovers band together and leave for the BE regardless what OU does? I don't know but if they are not looking at that option now they better get on it soon.

Texas wants to keep the B12 around because B12 is the only place where they can park their LHN without problems. They just need bodies in the B12 for their other sports. They really don't care about anyone else because they will always have options.

One proposal is have BE merge with the B12. Let Texas go indy and park their other sports in the new league along with ND. Here is the proposal from another board. It makes too much sense so it will probably never happen.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=512828

So everyone will probably hate this because it’s another hybrid conference BUT it should provide for the stability and success of the remaining Big East and Big 12 members while achieving the goals of the SEC, Pac 12, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Texas, and Notre Dame.

Initial Assumption
Texas A&M and West Virginia join the SEC.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma St join the Pac 14.

Now you have Notre Dame who wants to stay independent but needs a place for its other sports. Along with that, you have Texas who would love to take their football independent but needs somewhere to place their other sports.

The remaining 14 Big East and Big 12 members can provide that to both of them. In return they will receive the drawing power of Texas & Notre Dame’s other sports and the security of Texas & Notre Dame needing the others to keep their football independent.

A Hybrid Solution?
So, the 16 of us come together under the Big 14 banner (trademark owned by the Big 12 already). Let Texas have ABC & the LHN for football, nonconference basketball and olympics. Let Notre Dame have NBC for football & nonconference basketball.

Meanwhile, the remaining 14 teams get a new deal with the highest bidder for all sports with equal first and second tier rights of $18 million+. Take the third tier rights and form a conference network. Along with this, get X amount for Texas & Notre Dame for their conference basketball games and limited olympic sports.

Why do we do this 14/16 hybrid under the Big 12/14? It gets us away from the bball schools with ease. We retain the BCS bid with ease (contract between the Fiesta and Big 12 currently) and retain most if not all of the Big 12 bowls.

The league would look like what we’ve all been hoping for except with the addition of Texas & Notre Dame for all sports except football.

Big 14 East
Cincinnati
Louisville
Pitt
Rutgers
Syracuse
UConn
USF

Big 14 West
Baylor
Iowa St
Kansas
Kansas St
Missouri
Texas Tech
TCU

Texas & Notre Dame with no divisions for all other sports and Texas & Notre Dame are involved in our bowl tie-ins to get us premium slots.

 

[metsfan2323]

One thing we learned is that staying at 9 is suicide in this environment. BE has to grow if only for security. I don't believe B12 will make it past this year. There are just too many damaged relationships there where no one is trusting anyone else. OU's next move could doom the conference. Why would OU stay if they got the PAC-12 option without Texas? I believe PAC-12 would be very dumb if they don't add a program of OU's caliber now if they are available. So, it is up to OU to devide if B12 will be around or not. Ultimately, OU will probably go to the PAC-12 because of money and academics.

This leaves the other B12 leftovers. They got major pressure on them to act as well. They know BE has to get our membership set before 9/12. If they don't act now, BE might expand with other schools and they might be left in the dust if B12 blows up. Would the B12 leftovers band together and leave for the BE regardless what OU does? I don't know but if they are not looking at that option now they better get on it soon.

Texas wants to keep the B12 around because B12 is the only place where they can park their LHN without problems. They just need bodies in the B12 for their other sports. They really don't care about anyone else because they will always have options.

One proposal is have BE merge with the B12. Let Texas go indy and park their other sports in the new league along with ND. Here is the proposal from another board. It makes too much sense so it will probably never happen.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=512828

This is the best solution I have seen.

 

[SAMCRO]

I like it. I'd like it even more if WVU was included in it, Mizzou went to the SEC, and one of either L'ville or Cince moved to the West division, but I like it.

 

[freescooter]

One thing we learned is that staying at 9 is suicide in this environment. BE has to grow if only for security. I don't believe B12 will make it past this year. There are just too many damaged relationships there where no one is trusting anyone else. OU's next move could doom the conference. Why would OU stay if they got the PAC-12 option without Texas? I believe PAC-12 would be very dumb if they don't add a program of OU's caliber now if they are available. So, it is up to OU to devide if B12 will be around or not. Ultimately, OU will probably go to the PAC-12 because of money and academics.

This leaves the other B12 leftovers. They got major pressure on them to act as well. They know BE has to get our membership set before 9/12. If they don't act now, BE might expand with other schools and they might be left in the dust if B12 blows up. Would the B12 leftovers band together and leave for the BE regardless what OU does? I don't know but if they are not looking at that option now they better get on it soon.

Texas wants to keep the B12 around because B12 is the only place where they can park their LHN without problems. They just need bodies in the B12 for their other sports. They really don't care about anyone else because they will always have options.

One proposal is have BE merge with the B12. Let Texas go indy and park their other sports in the new league along with ND. Here is the proposal from another board. It makes too much sense so it will probably never happen.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=512828

That is not a horrible outcome by any means. If West Virginia stays and Missouri goes to the SEC, you maybe need to make a small adjustment, maybe Cincinatti goes west and West Virginia is in the East, but it would still work pretty well. One problem I see is that UCONN Syracuse and Louisville will only want to leave the Big East kicking and screaming. But it is one of the better plans I've seen.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think I'd prefer inviting in 3 Big XII teams and doing a 12/20 in the Big East to this. But it's creative and far from a stupid plan.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

I think I'd prefer inviting in 3 Big XII teams and doing a 12/20 in the Big East to this. But it's creative and far from a stupid plan.

The problem is when you leave someone out, you will get how Baylor is acting right now regarding to A&M. There will be some kind of threat to sue etc. Also, by keeping ND and Texas around even as non-FB members will keep everyone happy.

 

[Murph]

This is where you lost me! BC would pull in the Boston Market?

Do they stll do that oven-roasted chicken?

 

[businesslawyer]

The problem is when you leave someone out, you will get how Baylor is acting right now regarding to A&M. There will be some kind of threat to sue etc. Also, by keeping ND and Texas around even as non-FB members will keep everyone happy.

If I was bothered by threats to file frivolous lawsuits I wouldn't be much good to anybody, now would I?

And who other than UConn am I supposed to be trying to keep happy? Who other than our Big East partners is trying to keep me happy?