So What Happens to BE Football if . . .

[nelsonmuntz]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. All of this expansion stuff has showed us a few things. First, expansion will happen. The Big 12 will dissolve eventually, this year, next year, in two years, it will happen. Adding UCF, ECU, Houston, etc., barring one of them vaulting to Boise/TCU status, would be a TERRIBLE idea. This whole expansion fiasco has shown us that filling up valuable slots in the conference with very mediocre programs that, while some are in decent markets, they don't command attention from those markets. The possible exception here is Houston, but again, they haven't proven it on the field by winning the big time games and becoming a media darling as TCU and Boise have.

The Big East's greatest asset right now is the TV negotiation. We absolutely have to get to that negotiation is as good of a shape as we can, hope to cash in, and be able to invite new members based on that new contract. Adding ECU, Memphis, etc. all do nothing to bolster that TV deal because they're not programs that any networks is going to pay any more for. Honestly, it looks like the best scenario is to hope that the A&M saga is dragged on and delayed for at least one more year (unlikely), or that WVU is not invited to the SEC, so we can have a full roster of teams to negotiate with ESPN/NBC/Fox with. With that deal, we can then hopefully be the aggressor in filling our slots with BCS programs, like the MD's, the KU's, hell, maybe even the Jesuits, etc. to join our league because they can make more money here. This is all about TV, it's all about finding the best path to making money. The CUSA teams do not help us do that, and will only end up taking up space while not solidifying the conference from a raid at all.

If A&M does go, and WVU does bolt to the SEC, we need to jump on the Big 12 remnants right away, as the conference seems to have set up the pieces for already. We need as much BCS-caliber names as possible.

Agree. I could tolerate replacing WVU with Houston. If we are really desperate for 10 teams, add Temple for football only. There is about 0% chance that Villanova will upgrade their football program in this kind of uncertain environment.

 

[Adios]

I think I am getting nauseated by the expansion talk.

 

[huskyrob1]

Ultimately, if the B-12 doesn't collapse things just go on as they currently are, and in time the Big East adds Central florida, Villanova, Houston and one other from the usual suspects to get to 12. If the media deal is as good as some htink, maybe BC and maryland replace Central florida and someone else. Is it a setback? well, yeah. It is never good to lose the most identifiable member of your confeerence. Is it a disaster? probably not. It jsut puts us back to where we are currently instead of advancing the conference as TCU's additon would have.

Oh yeah that's right, the Big 12 might collapse, but IMHO the Big East is a bigger farce. Imagine how the Big 12 would look if Oral Roberts played only basketball, along with Our Lady of Tulsa, and Jim Jones Bible College, and all were founding/charter members of the Big 12 and pretty much ruled the conference, AND Dave Gavitt still had his old office at Jim Jones. Imagine that!!!

 

[Adios]

I think you forgot Liberty University.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Oh yeah that's right, the Big 12 might collapse, but IMHO the Big East is a bigger farce. Imagine how the Big 12 would look if Oral Roberts played only basketball, along with Our Lady of Tulsa, and Jim Jones Bible College, and all were founding/charter members of the Big 12 and pretty much ruled the conference, AND Dave Gavitt still had his old office at Jim Jones. Imagine that!!!

Yeah. Those hoops onlies and all their big city markets and Final Fours are killing the conference.

 

[metsfan2323]

What if the mentioned Big 14 with Texas and Notre Dame as Hybrids also invited Villanova, St Johns, Georgetown, and Marquette to join the new league? We would have a 14 fb and 20 basketball league that is superior to the proposed Big East 12, 20 league. The league basketball tournament for this new league would be at MSG because we have ST Johns. This would be by far the best hoops conference in the country and would offer a football league that is superior to the ACC. The big losers are Providence, Seton Hall, and Depaul. 3 programs that are dying anyway. They join the A-10 where they belong.

 

[businesslawyer]

What if the mentioned Big 14 with Texas and Notre Dame as Hybrids also invited Villanova, St Johns, Georgetown, and Marquette to join the new league? We would have a 14 fb and 20 basketball league that is superior to the proposed Big East 12, 20 league. The league basketball tournament for this new league would be at MSG because we have ST Johns. This would be by far the best hoops conference in the country and would offer a football league that is superior to the ACC. The big losers are Providence, Seton Hall, and Depaul. 3 programs that are dying anyway. They join the A-10 where they belong.

Yes. We're going to leave some basketball onlies behind, ruining their athletic programs, but some other basketball schools will put their trust in us and not risk us doing the same to them down the road, rather than keep the Big East name and control over what would be, for basketball, a top 6 conference. Yes, the guys running those schools are that stupid.

 

[UCHuskies08]

I think I am getting nauseated by the expansion talk.

Someday it will be over right? Someday?

 

[metsfan2323]

Yes. We're going to leave some basketball onlies behind, ruining their athletic programs, but some other basketball schools will put their trust in us and not risk us doing the same to them down the road, rather than keep the Big East name and control over what would be, for basketball, a top 6 conference. Yes, the guys running those schools are that stupid.

Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?

For the 1,000,000 time, if the football only schools thought it was in their best interests to split it would have happened already. The Big East Commissioner isn't holding the football schools back from doing anything. The University Presidents of the football only schools control their own destiny.

Obviously after a full of this year, I'm going to put my faith into feasibility studies done by top flight athletic programs, over random internet message board users.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

For the 1,000,000 time, if the football only schools thought it was in their best interests to split it would have happened already. The Big East Commissioner isn't holding the football schools back from doing anything. The University Presidents of the football only schools control their own destiny.

Obviously after a full of this year, I'm going to put my faith into feasibility studies done by top flight athletic programs, over random internet message board users.

This. This fallacy that the football schools are controlled by the bballs is largely nonsense, the bballs know their athletic programs are in the gutter if the footballs split off.

GET RID OF PC, SHU, DEPAUL, AND MARQUETTE.

 

[huskyrob1]

Yeah. Those hoops onlies and all their big city markets and Final Fours are killing the conference.

OK Joe Lapchick whatever you say, but they are killing the conference. Football drives the bus these days in big time college sports, not Lou Carneseca's sweater. Big city markets you say? Christ, Geno Auriemma could fit more people in his backyard for a barbecue than they could fit in all the on campus Catholic hoops only gyms.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

OK Joe Lapchick whatever you say, but they are killing the conference. Football drives the bus these days in big time college sports, not Lou Carneseca's sweater. Big city markets you say? Christ, Geno Auriemma could fit more people in his backyard for a barbecue than they could fit in all the on campus Catholic hoops only gyms.

How, specifically, are the basketball only schools "killing the conference"?

So what if the basketball onlies have small on campus arenas...they play the majority of their games in NBA arenas in big markets.

Nova-76ers
Georgetown-Wizards
Marq-Bucks
SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks

 

[Adios]

Someday it will be over right? Someday?

It's not happening quick enough.

 

[Adios]

SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks

The Nets are moving to Brooklyn and St John's is in Queens. Both are on Long Island. The Knicks play in Manhattan. Seton Hall will be alone in Newark.

 

[UCHuskies08]

It's not happening quick enough.

The sooner the better. If I had a nickel for every potential conference alignment that I've read on the internet....

 

[businesslawyer]

Without the football schools the Big East turns into the A-10 (boring) This would give four of those programs a chance to stay in a relevant conference . I don't really buy into the idea that the football schools should stay connected to the basketball schools lest we ruin their athletic programs. How many years has Seton Hall had to build an on campus arena?

You are missing the point. When we tell Georgetown, "we're bailing on Seton Hall, but trust us never to do that to you even though football comes first for us and we don't know where that is headed," why in the world is Georgetown saying "sure thing." The Catholics will keep the Big East name and their presence in the largest cities, add more Catholics and have a damn good league that they control and have common goals with. Why do you see that we have a conflict being with them and not realize they have the same issue of non-identical goals.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

The Nets are moving to Brooklyn and St John's is in Queens. Both are on Long Island. The Knicks play in Manhattan. Seton Hall will be alone in Newark.

I'm not even sure if you're being serious or not...Do you really think Brooklyn and Queens are on Long Island? lol.

The Nets aren't taking the arena with them. The Prudential Center is still a brand new NHL arena.

St. John's, when good, draws very well at MSG, also known as the world's most famous arena.

 

[huskyrob1]

How, specifically, are the basketball only schools "killing the conference"?

So what if the basketball onlies have small on campus arenas...they play the majority of their games in NBA arenas in big markets.

Nova-76ers
Georgetown-Wizards
Marq-Bucks
SH-Nets
St.Johns-Knicks

Gee, I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask BC, Miami, Virginia Tech, WVU or any other Big East football school who would jump at the chance to leave. Yeah I know, what about TCU? I'm still scratching my head on that one. That's like the Yankees building their new stadium in Cuba.

 

[metsfan2323]

You are missing the point. When we tell Georgetown, "we're bailing on Seton Hall, but trust us never to do that to you even though football comes first for us and we don't know where that is headed," why in the world is Georgetown saying "sure thing." The Catholics will keep the Big East name and their presence in the largest cities, add more Catholics and have a damn good league that they control and have common goals with. Why do you see that we have a conflict being with them and not realize they have the same issue of non-identical goals.

I understand what you are saying, but if we did eventually throw Georgetown and the rest under the bus as you suggest, wouldn't the existing Catholic league invite them in immediately? Point being that Catholic league option is always going to be there for them as a fallback. If they could make more money with the football schools in the meantime why not do it?

If the Catholic schools are such a cohesive unit how did BC ever leave the conference?

I'm not buying the idea that the Big East Conference without the football schools is going to be relevant for very long. St Johns / Georgetown when neither are ranked will draw flies. Heck St Johns doesn't draw very well right now. Seton Hall? That Seton Hall / St Joseph matchup will be lucky to draw 4000 people.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Gee, I'm not sure. Maybe you should ask BC, Miami, Virginia Tech, WVU or any other Big East football school who would jump at the chance to leave. Yeah I know, what about TCU? I'm still scratching my head on that one. That's like the Yankees building their new stadium in Cuba.

So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.

 

[uc1974]

Uh, ConnHuskBask, Brooklyn and Queens are on Long Island. Are you having a geographic moment?

 

[metsfan2323]

So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.

I'd like to hear how Seton Hall adds value.

 

[huskyrob1]

So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.

Well suppose the Basketball only schools did play big time D1 football. That would instantly make the Big East a 16 team super conf with a league championship game, a major TV contract, etc, lots of dollars to go around, more and better recruits, but sadly they don't play football. Conversely what do you think the president of MSG, CBS, the Big East Tournament committee and ESPN would do if all of a sudden 6 Big East schools no longer played basketball? They would and Dave Gavitt would personally drive to each of the 6 schools and shoot each schools AD. Both sports can generate revenue in a top program, but football much more so, that's why it drives the bus these days. I mean would you rather be an owner of an NFL franchise or an NBA team?

 

[huskyrob1]

So, you are insinuating that if the Big East had kicked out Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's etc. at the time of the raid, that BC, Miami and VT would have stayed?

The Big East is, and always will be susceptible to a raid because as a collective whole our football schools have less value to networks than the other conferences. It has nothing to do with the basketball schools as some say "bringing down our value". In fact, without having the best basketball conference our already small tv contracts would be even smaller.

I'd still love to hear how the Basketball only schools somehow bring down our value. From anyone.

Oh and BTW Villanova does play football, there's been talk of them going D1 for a few years now.