So the offense doesn't work | Page 2 | The Boneyard

So the offense doesn't work

How many times have we played teams of CCSU quality and not scored 102 points. Anyone care to count?
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Do you ever pass up a chance to be a jerk? If you don't like the thread, don't post in it.
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You’re getting upset for being called out when you’re blatantly wrong about almost everything. You’re not smarter than guys like Jay Wright and Dan Hurley. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
 
UCfor3 said:
Why stop there. Im pissed we didnt look like Gozaga. You should have applied when KFree did. Rememher last year when we kind of stunk and then found our footing and were playing great when things stopped? We have way more talent this year. Much of it is new though. It may take more than 2 games to to integrate and find our footing, especially considering everything going on in the world and within the program recently.
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I have like 4 posts in this thread identifying my specific problems with the offense, and it isn't just UConn's version of it. This isn't two bad games.
 
Psolo12 said:
You’re getting upset for being called out when you’re blatantly wrong about almost everything. You’re not smarter than guys like Jay Wright and Dan Hurley. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
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I am not getting upset. You are a garden variety troll and I want to have a discussion of basketball. This thread isn't for you.
 
It is an overreaction two games into this bizzaro season, but running smooth offensive sets isn't a strength of Dan Hurley.

But it is too early to make any concrete assessments about this team.
 
Psolo12 said:
Mid range scoring is not a priority what so ever, and is dying all throughout basketball. Why would we emphasize that?
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That’s where the open shots are and it forces defenders to pull back off the 3 line and pulls up the front court defender opening the baseline. As long as the center can sit in the lane to contest drives and the wing defenders can creep out to contest the 3 line, there are giant holes at 10-14 feet. The minute they have close those holes, space on edge frees up and the more out of position the center is forced to help, the easier it is to drive the lane or dump to a man in the low post running the baseline. It just using the entire court to create openings.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
I am not getting upset. You are a garden variety troll and I want to have a discussion of basketball. This thread isn't for you.
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If you weren't impressed by the CCSU game, what do you think the score would've been with a traditional lineup? Serious question.
 
RipCity said:
You’re trying to trend off of one data point and the only other is very contradictive to it. Tonight wasn’t great, but to say the offense doesn’t work is an overreaction. I don’t think there will be many games when there is nobody who can hit a 3 for 15 straight minutes. As for the insult, sorry I was just poking fun
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This offense doesn't work, and the shooting is not great because the offense is not going to create a lot of great shots. I also don't think the offense emphasizes the players' strengths. If we had a lot of slow guys that were great shooters, then play a 4 out and whip the ball around like Villanova does. We don't, but we do have two great penetrators in Bouk and Cole, we have a few athletes with height (Whaley, Sanogo, Jackson, Martin) and Polley is a good catch and shoot shooter.

I don't think we are using them correctly.
 
Huskyforlife said:
If you weren't impressed by the CCSU game, what do you think the score would've been with a traditional lineup? Serious question.
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I love Seton Hall's offense. I love Gonzaga's offense. They have inside-outside ball movement, penetration, and kick outs to catch and shoot 3's while facing the basket (these are the highest percentage 3's, which is the right way to use analytics)
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I have like 4 posts in this thread identifying my specific problems with the offense, and it isn't just UConn's version of it. This isn't two bad games.
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Your first sentence in this thread says our offense is a bust through 2 games. If your complaint is you do not like Dan Hurleys overall offensive philosophy in general yesterday, today and tomorrow then you buried the lead and that is a seperate conversation.
 
I meant to bring this up in the other threads. Defenses have adjusted to "analytics offenses". Watch how teams defend the perimeter. They completely sell out to defend the perimeter, and don't worry as much about getting beat because they are going to funnel you to their rim protector. Defenses aren't even defending the mid-range any more. They stop the 3, or sprint back to the basket. That is a very different way of defense than if you have to defend the potential pullup. It is easier if you dont' have to defend the whole 20 feet from the 3 point line to the basket, you just have to defend 2 spots.

Even Hurley does this defensively. They come out hard on the 3, or sprint back if beaten.
 
Yes, Hurley stresses defending the 3 just like every coach should with the way the game has evolved. Right now, we are missing Vitale and Gilberts perimeter D a bit. They had their issues at times but on ball D was not one of them. Hopefully we get better in this area. Will be critical going forward. Much more than any offensive woes.
 
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UCfor3 said:
Yes, Hurley stresses defending the 3 just like every coach should with the way the game has evolved. Right now, we are missing Vitale and Gilberts perimeter D a bit. They had their issues at times but on ball D was not one of them. Hopefully we get better in this area. Will be critical going forward. Much more than any offensive woes.
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Gilbert and Vital had really quick feet, so when they got beat, they recovered quickly. Our guards are not recovering quickly.
 
I'm going to post the same thing I did in a different thread. Because some people need to understand this.

When you have a lot of new and inexperienced, but talented, players on a team it's going to take time to figure out roles and rotations. Usually you use 12 or 13 games before conference play with lots of buy games and a few high major games to work on this and see how things look. We have a bunch of talented new players who've never played with each other before (Sanogo, Jackson, Cole, Martin). And other guys are relatively inexperienced (Bouknight and Gaffney are still just sophomores). Those players were most of the minutes in the first 2 games.

Unfortunately with this messed up season they don't have that long before conference play to figure things out. I don't think these things ever get worked out in 2 games except when you have a very experienced team coming back (think 1998-1999 team) who have played extensively with each other. It's going to be a work in progress until at least early January.
 
HooperScooper said:
I'm going to post the same thing I did in a different thread. Because some people need to understand this.

When you have a lot of new and inexperienced, but talented, players on a team it's going to take time to figure out roles and rotations. Usually you use 12 or 13 games before conference play with lots of buy games and a few high major games to work on this and see how things look. We have a bunch of talented new players who've never played with each other before (Sanogo, Jackson, Cole, Martin). And other guys are relatively inexperienced (Bouknight and Gaffney are still just sophomores). Those players were most of the minutes in the first 2 games.

Unfortunately with this messed up season they don't have that long before conference play to figure things out. I don't think these things ever get worked out in 2 games except when you have a very experienced team coming back (think 1998-1999 team) who have played extensively with each other. It's going to be a work in progress until at least early January.
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Would like this twice if I could.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I love Seton Hall's offense. I love Gonzaga's offense. They have inside-outside ball movement, penetration, and kick outs to catch and shoot 3's while facing the basket (these are the highest percentage 3's, which is the right way to use analytics)
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They do have great offenses(and players), but I don't think we can play Gonzaga style without bigs like Timmie and Watson. Timmie also plays inside out frequently.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
I will try it a different way. THIS offense does not work. I don't think more practice is going to make it significantly better.
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I don’t think it’s crazy to say the offense has not looked all that good in either game, I just think it’s way too early to make any definitive pronouncements given how little they’ve practiced and how many guys are currently in the mix for playing time. I don’t think there’s any reason to say that Hurley’s offensive philosophy can’t succeed.
 
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The biggest problem I see is that is that their PGs cannot get them into the offense. Cole is not a traditional PG. He struggles to beat people off the dribble and he almost never sets up his teammates. He is really a two guard who is looking to find space for himself first and when he fails he is often in a bad place and throws a worthless pass that requires a reset of the play.
 
Of course everyone would LOVE to see these games always end up in 85-50 or 90-60 type blood baths but just the same, an early-season win is an early-season win and in the season 2003-04 I don't think many remember UConn's 70-60 win over Yale or 92-83 win over Rice 12 games into the season or 2011's 62-55 win over New Hampshire or 76-64 vs Coppin St. or 2014's 76-66 win over Loyola MD/72-70 over BC because they went on to far greater things, just like this team will be on to much better things and this one will be merely an aberration in the long run, I am sure of it.

Close games vs. lesser teams happen, even to all-time great teams like in 2004, 2009, 2011 and 2014 (though 1999 was just legendary and had no such issues).
 
nelsonmuntz said:
The 5 out, small ball offense doesn't really work anywhere for any team.

Take the NBA. A few teams, like the Milwaukee Bucks, got away with it for a while because they were so much more talented than their opponents, but in a 7 game series against a decent opponent like the Heat, they were easy to shut down. Toronto was beating Boston on great play by Ibaka and Gasol, then they went small at crunch time against the Celtics and lost. Now Ibaka and Gasol are gone, and the Raptors will be a mid-40's win team going forward.

This offense is easy to stop even by less talented teams. It will not work.
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i don't think that these series illustrate the point you are trying to make... milwaukee's problem last year was that they did not have ENOUGH ball handlers. they were easy to shut down because miami could stop giannis in the paint and the bucks didn't have another player to create open looks.

you are praising a miami team that played significant stretches with andre iguodala at the 5 during the series with the celtics.
 
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We missed a lot of bunny's last night. And we read similar from the OP last year, he was wrong then too.
 
Psolo12 said:
Not everyone, just you.
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I read to the end of the posts and you still haven't told us how you would run the offense. Right, wrong or indifferent, at least nelson sticks by his opinion.

Still waiting.....@Psolo12
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Mid 90's grad. I am a basketball super genius, or at least I look like one posting on the basketball board. I would never post on the Cesspool if the Men's Basketball Board wasn't so cluttered with idiots, but it is, and it becomes unreadable after a while. That board would be awesome if Fishy/Temery banned like 75% of the posters.
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nelsonmuntz said:
Most of my best posting is on the Entertainment board.
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Travelman32 said:
Of course everyone would LOVE to see these games always end up in 85-50 or 90-60 type blood baths but just the same, an early-season win is an early-season win and in the season 2003-04 I don't think many remember UConn's 70-60 win over Yale or 92-83 win over Rice 12 games into the season or 2011's 62-55 win over New Hampshire or 76-64 vs Coppin St. or 2014's 76-66 win over Loyola MD/72-70 over BC because they went on to far greater things, just like this team will be on to much better things and this one will be merely an aberration in the long run, I am sure of it.

Close games vs. lesser teams happen, even to all-time great teams like in 2004, 2009, 2011 and 2014 (though 1999 was just legendary and had no such issues).
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The corollary is also true. Just because UConn scored some baskets in the first two games, it doesn't mean that the offense is working great. UConn is not going to blow out a lot of teams in Big East play, and there isn't much of a preseason this year so Big East play is coming pretty quickly. The difference between winning and losing is a few extra made baskets a game, and the team that gets the most easy shots is most likely going to make more baskets. UConn needs more easy shot attempts, and I don't see those coming with this offense.
 
UCSouth said:
I read to the end of the posts and you still haven't told us how you would run the offense. Right, wrong or indifferent, at least nelson sticks by his opinion.

Still waiting.....@Psolo12
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I’m not a basketball coach nor am I gonna pretend to be one like you clowns. Why would anyone care how I want to run the offense? At least I know it’s not a 5 out offense and can appreciate we dropped 102 the first game and not call our offense “broken”. I don’t feel the need to write up an offensive plan for the boneyard to read about lol
 
Psolo12 said:
I’m not a basketball coach nor am I gonna pretend to be one like you clowns. Why would anyone care how I want to run the offense? At least I know it’s not a 5 out offense and can appreciate we dropped 102 the first game and not call our offense “broken”. I don’t feel the need to write up an offensive plan for the boneyard to read about lol
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So you don't want to talk basketball on a basketball message board. Thank you for clearing that up.
 
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