SI planning a story on Geno and Muffet? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

SI planning a story on Geno and Muffet?

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hoophuskee said:
I usually agree with your posts but I just have to say for number 1 I don't agree for one second. CViv went on afterwards and was accusatory of Geno. There is NO EXCUSE for that from a fellow coach. None. You (CViv) KNOW the coach. It goes beyond "sticking up for the player." To publicly rip another coach when you don't have the facts while your player has NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER to be putting her finger in the opposing coach's chest is WAY OUT OF LINE. THAT should have been her observation point that her player lost her cool. Cappie's behaviour should NOT have been acceptable in any manner. To stick up for that - is way out of line.

And I disagree on your luck point. Not so much for "luck." Because IF a player didn't conduct themselves properly Geno would hammer them later. I would EXPECT that. So for me it is irrelevant luck or no luck it's what the coach does afterwards. Was cappie punished by CViv? Nope - not that I remember. Was she? Do I think Geno would have punished his player? Yep imo. If he didn't then I'd be upset with him. Anyhow, imo you're looking at the moment which I think is irrelevant vs looking at the reaction of the coach afterwards. I "accept" that a kid could lose her cool. And I expect the coach to do something about it afterwards.

I think your number 5 is spot on.

I think your number 8 is true in some manner yet because it is true in some manner doesn't make it true in all manners. For Muffett - we'll just have to agree to disagree. How many in the mens game do we see publicly coming out with a preference of Pat Summitt vs Geno in college as Muffett said? Its petty. Anyhow l see the non-clapping for BS as a microcosm of her complete snap during the NCAA's an imo that can't be excused. At least for me as a husky fan- others want to excuse her that's their perogative. We can all agree to disagree on this.
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As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved. No a great moment but from my perspective not a deal breaker either way.
As for the Luck - and Cappie-gate - seems like a total misunderstanding all around and what sort of punishment should have been handed out - nothing in my book. Another instance involving Geno - the Syracuse flap ... I think he instigated that by admonishing an opponents player when he should have talked to Q privately after the fact.
On point eight - it can be as simple as 'hasn't been the 'nicest'' in a post above to describe MM. I don't think anybody has ever expected Geno to be the 'nicest' or even think of using 'niceness' as a measuring stick for Geno or most men - and that was the point. We use different words and different standards and have different expectations for men and women and react differently to behaviors based on the gender of the actor. We even expect different behaviors on sports boards based on the gender of the athletes we follow. This board is 'civilized' while the men's board is more 'rough' or '____' fill in the blank.
 
What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?
 
sarals24 said:
What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?
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Yes - it seemed to date to that time frame.
 
Beemer said:
But like watanabe said, Geno is flawed. He's human.
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Bro, Re-read my post. I never said this and never will. I KNOW some flawed people. Geno IS NOT one of them. There is nothing but complete admiration for him from this direction and I will always defend that.
Through his tireless efforts I have recieved some of the most greatest memories of my life and watched him touch more people in the most amazing ways than most of will ever have the chance. Personally I feel blessed that he has coached UConn huskies to this pinnacle. I have watched his team excel while living in many places and countries around the world. HE has made me pround to be a UConn alum more than anything else UConn has provided me (other than a great education).
I can't help but say that I am offended that some anonomous poster on this board would feel free to take cheap shots at him.
 
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As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved. No a great moment but from my perspective not a deal breaker either way.
In my opinion the answer to this is obvious. You should be skeptical of the kid who is more concentrated on playing. Secondly, CViv knows Geno to some extent. There is no logic to believe he was saying something that derogatory at RU. Third, CViv has to realize her team was probably favored or near even and “maybe” her player let her emotions run away with the disappointments of the defeat. After all these are kids not pros. Fourth, she knew her player snapped so the very fact she went overboard is tell-tale sign of someone you should be skeptical to believe. Fifth, CViv could have just asked Geno instead of being accusatory. You could single out one of these or 2 of these but imo not all 5.


As for the Luck - and Cappie-gate - seems like a total misunderstanding all around and what sort of punishment should have been handed out - nothing in my book.

What was nothing in your book? You wouldn’t give her any punishment? In mine she would get a punishment.

Another instance involving Geno - the Syracuse flap ... I think he instigated that by admonishing an opponents player when he should have talked to Q privately after the fact.

Tell me about the Syracuse thing again. I remember the player trying to trip Geno. A true classy gesture. This is the same team that he deliberately ran up the score on. What caused him to run it up? Is it his own character flaw hich was the cause as to why he ran it up? To what degree is ti a personaly/ character falw on anything? Anyway- I say no. How many times has he deliberately done it? There had to be a cause. If he felt his team and the coach didn’t give a damn and I think Geno had said at the time he was genuinely concerned for his kids– I can care less “he talked out of turn.” That’s what I like about him. IMO it’s not a character- personality flaw. And to a lesser degree it is refreshing.


On point eight - it can be as simple as 'hasn't been the 'nicest'' in a post above to describe MM.

People have a right to hate Geno. And vice-versa. There things that bother aggravate each person differently. Both ND and RU deserve the criticism imo. And I my opinion is not gender-biased I think there is a good reason to hate them. If you don’t want to – no problem. But I would disagree if someone categorized my opinion as gender-bias.
 
sarals24 said:
What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?
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Yes.

And before that after we beatt hem she sort of said Tenn was going to rout us or she was rooting for Tenn.

Plus before the game soemone asked her of Sales and she responded in some manner that she had 10 Nykesha Sales.
 
Man, if she had 10 Nykesha Sales, why didn't she win more national championships??
 
UcMiami said:
As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved.
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Afraid I'd have to differ on a number of things in your recollection, Miami. You've got it considerably more benign than it was, IMO.

1. Geno didn't yell at one of his players. He yelled at a ref.

2. Matee Ajavon had been trash talking Ann Strother during the game in a way that went beyond normal trash talk and into the realm of the truly reprehensible. Will not go into it here. PM me if you want. [p.s. - without questioning the Strother part, someone has told me Matee was on Charde's case all game; again, I'll withhold the alleged subject of the jibes.]

3. Ajavon's yapping continued while Ann was at the foul line. [p.s. same informant says it was Charde at the line at the time.] Geno yelled at the ref "Tell her [Ajavon] to shut up."

4. Cappie thought the "her" was herself. If it had been, whatever her words, her post-game actions were out of line primarily because of the physical gestures on national TV. Still, no huge deal to this point. Cappie and Geno had a longstanding good personal relationship (which possibly gave Cappie the confidence to do what she did) and had both put it aside by the next day.

5. Because of some behavioral issues on the RU team in then-recent times, the AD and media person urged CVS to "get out front" in the post-game presser. That's when CVS disgraced herself with a lot of bull, live on ESPN, about how it was all Geno's fault -- including an allegation that he had said something to Cappie that "no human being should say" (a made-up innuendo that stoked the fires of those contending that CVS had an inclination to play the race card).

6. Geno responded, accurately, that "Vivian has no idea, none, what was said."

7. It didn't fester with anyone "involved," but it sure festered with the fans -- enough so that the RU Athletic Director made a public apology before the game in Connecticut the following season.
 
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Who out there believes (Muffet) ND would have won any NCs if Ralph and Abrosimova and hadn't gone down before the meat of the NCAAs? Two All-Americas? I don't. Muffet's a good recruiter and coach and her kids play there butts off. Geno and the UConn kids are just a step above. Fortunately, being a UConn fan, I like Geno's banter and candor. If I rooted for another university, it would probably be irritating.
 
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I was wrong about "10 Nykesha Sales" and the timing of the comment. And it was in 1993 when Tara said - they had 6 Nykesha saleses Anyhow Sara here is a link to some of the frost between the two at the time. Now it's all okay. This is from no one other than our friend Jeff Jacobs.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-12...uriemma-tara-vanderveer-vanderveer-s-stanford

There's a lot of good stuff in this article. Of which some of the stuff we are talking about now.

IMO Geno is refreshing.

"
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
I thought the beef with Tara had to do with her comment about having five Nykesha Sales on her team.
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I think there were a couple things. My memory is that Tara, as Olympic coach, objected to the committee's selection of Lobo for the team - that she didn't give them the best chance to win (win "now", sorta like Stewie this year?). There was a lot of pressure to get Rebecca on the team as the poster child of the just-being-launched WNBA, and Tara lost that one. And then she punished Rebecca, seemingly in retaliation...
 
hoophuskee said:
I was wrong about "10 Nykesha Sales" and the timing of the comment. And it was in 1993 when Tara said - they had 6 Nykesha saleses Anyhow Sara here is a link to some of the frost between the two at the time. Now it's all okay. This is from no one other than our friend Jeff Jacobs.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-12...uriemma-tara-vanderveer-vanderveer-s-stanford

There's a lot of good stuff in this article. Of which some of the stuff we are talking about now.

IMO Geno is refreshing.

"
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Great article - I'm starting to dislike Tara all over again!
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
I thought the beef with Tara had to do with her comment about having five Nykesha Sales on her team.
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That apparently wasn't the biggest thing, if there ever was a thing. Here's the history, far as we know.

1993 - Stanford beats UConn by 20. Someone says UConn should do better in the future because they'd signed Nykesha Sales. Tara replies she just signed six Nykesha Sales. (She later denied saying it, but a Hartford Courant reporter had it on tape.)

1995 - Rebecca Lobo leads UConn to 35-0 season and NC.

1996 - Tara coaches the Olympic team. Many in Connecticut feel she slights the young media darling Lobo in certain ways.

1997 - Sales torches Stanford for 46 points. The six Nykeshas on the other side make no appearance.

2005 - After some years of ignoring each other, the teams play again. Geno and Tara both say they see each other on the road, get along fine and respect each other. Geno brushes off questions about the Sales remark, more or less as much ado about nothing.

But he does acknowledge the Lobo situation was difficult -- not Tara's fault and not Lobo's, but badly perceived in Connecticut. Tara acknowledges she isn't very well liked in the Nutmeg State, but basically says she did what she needed to do to win.

Over the ten years 2005-2015 (nearly), this tone of mutual respect hasn't varied. When Pat Summitt was going through her "We won't play UConn, ask Geno why" crap, Tara more or less said "Well we will. We want to play the best." And she did, in some memorable games.

Makes one wonder whether there ever really was any ill will between the coaches. Geno never publicly said anything about the Olympic PT issue (or for that matter whether Tara should've started Lobo for an exhibition in Connecticut, as many hereabouts thought she should have). The most he said at the time was he didn't have to talk to Tara and hadn't.
 
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JS said:
That apparently wasn't the biggest thing, if there ever was a thing. Here's the history, far as we know.

1993 - Stanford beats UConn by 20. Someone says UConn should do better in the future because they'd signed Nykesha Sales. Tara replies she just signed six Nykesha Sales. (She later denied saying it, but a Hartford Courant reporter had it on tape.)

1995 - Rebecca Lobo leads UConn to 35-0 season and NC.

1996 - Tara coaches the Olympic team. Many in Connecticut feel she slights the young media darling Lobo in certain ways.

1997 - Sales torches Stanford for 46 points. The six Nykeshas on the other side make no appearance.

2005 - After some years of ignoring each other, the teams play again. Geno and Tara both say they see each other on the road, get along fine and respect each other. Geno brushes off questions about the Sales remark, more or less as much ado about nothing.

But he does acknowledge the Lobo situation was difficult -- not Tara's fault and not Lobo's, but badly perceived in Connecticut. Tara acknowledges she isn't very well liked in the Nutmeg State, but basically says she did what she needed to do to win.

Over the ten years 2005-2015 (nearly), this tone of mutual respect hasn't varied. When Pat Summitt was going through her "We won't play UConn, ask Geno why" crap, Tara more or less said "Well we will. We want to play the best." And she did, in some memorable games.

Makes one wonder whether there ever really was any ill will between the coaches. Geno never publicly said anything about the Olympic PT issue (or for that matter whether Tara should've started Lobo for an exhibition in Connecticut, as many hereabouts thought she should have). The most he said at the time was he didn't have to talk to Tara and hadn't.
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ThanksJS - I don't want to have this go back and forth - my dislike for tara has vanquished long ago. But one minor point I guess we can agree to disagree regrding "perceived in Ct." - the link I provided above - Jeff says the following:


"VanDerveer didn't like all the media and endorsement attention heaped on UConn's national icon when she wasn't even sure Lobo should be on her team. She rode Lobo hard. At one point, she decreed that Lobo had to run two miles in 16 minutes or she'd be locked down in Colorado Springs. Geno wasn't happy."

I'l just add I don't agree with anyone that thought back then Lobo was going to play. Like Laetener imo her slection was an honorary position of which I don't recall harsh treatment to Laetner. Thebackdrop of how things worked long ago and Geno wasn't liked in a certain groups--- I think valid / gives some vision why things happened. Here in Jeff's article this shows treatemnt was darn harsh. And I'll swear to my grave that Lobo was not expected to be a vital cog thus shouldn't have been given the heat she received. Things change and evolve every so often. Things have here.

But again for me water under the bridge. I really admire Tara. I respect her a lot and The Cardinal.
 
Just some points to get out there.
1. Just as JS stated above, in the Geno vs Cappie affair, CViv said at a press conference that, "Geno called Cappie a name no woman should be called in any situation!" After the Big East looked into all the charges they said nothing happened! CViv was never made to apologize, so the Rutgers AD did! Cviv coaches a [mod edit] style of play, mouthing off, an over physical play etc. Also Geno didn't cotton to CViv's comment when she got the Rutgers job that "Rutgers will become the jewell of the Big East".
2. It is not luck that UCONN players don't lose their "cool" as Cappie did. The way Diana Taurasi behaves now would not be allowed if she still played for Geno & CD! She's a pro now! They recruit people as well as players and the players are evaluated on all types of social situations, how they interact with team mates, coaches, refs, opposing players, and that goes into their recruitment plans! [mod edit] There is a certain way you carry yourself as an athlete, and CD & Geno have all types of rules, like no tweeting, etc. during season to limit chances of problems occurring!
3. Doesn't it bother any TN fans or WBB fans in general, that Ariel Massengale has come out in public and said the last 2 years of players ignored Holly Warlick and the coaching staff, and ran their own plays, and this years team will follow the coaches as the team NOW realize the coaches know more than the players thought! This is wrong on so many levels. If Geno watched his players ignore him and run other plays than what he called, he would have sat them all down and the would have hit the fan! And none of the players he recruited would have even thought to run their own plays!
4. Concerning Muffett's amazing NCAA title in 1991, It was more that UCONN didn't do than what ND did to lose/win that semifinal game!
During the Geno "Legends" show on SNY with Sue Bird last season he asked Sue if she was still pissed at him for what happened at 1/2 time of the UCONN/ND semi in '91 and she smiled and said no, time heals things! He went on to explain that with 15 seconds left in the 1st 1/2, Ratay of ND hit a 3-pointer dropping the margin from 18 to 15 points. When he entered the locker room, he preceded to throw a chair across the room and he went nuts for the full 1/2 time. When the players went out to start the 2nd 1/2 they were all upset and he blames himself for costing that team, with Svet & Shea injured, he considered THAT team as the greatest team in WBB, and they didn't have a title!
5. Muffett McGraw saying that Geno and her have a negative relationship now and he doesn't show any respect for her & ND! Well, you EARN respect, you don't DEMAND respect, and MM wants to be treated as Geno's EQUAL and she isn't even in the same ballpark as Geno! When she has 9 NCAA titles and 17 or whatever Big East titles, and some of the greatest players to ever play WBB, then MAYBE she'll be considered Geno's equal!
 
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I don't have any problem what so ever with Tara. At least she is not afraid to play UCONN like another team that shall go nameless. UCONN has played Stanford in the regular season for a number of years and I hope the series will continue far into the future. This is good for women's basketball!
 
You can say and think what you want about Geno and UConn but remember this...WCBB would not be where it is today if Geno and UConn hadnt done what theyve done. He has put WCBB on the map beginning in 1995 and has done it with respect.
 
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Re: Geno & Cappie, CVS

JS is right - Geno and Cappie are friends. They spoke a few days after Cappie-gate and everything was resolved between them.

Regarding CVS - no offense to our Rutgers fan friends but CVS can be a tad, um, "out there" sometimes. A member of the Horde told me you can see this in some of CVS's press conferences that waver between rambling, semi-coherent, and unintentionally hilarious. I think she initially thought Geno had said something horrible to Cappie and stood up for her player but even after the situation was ironed out between Geno & Cappie, got this weird fixation on the alleged comment. I've heard rumors that others not associated with Rutgers might have been pouring oil on an already-incendiary topic but it's all second- and third-hand stuff. It has all been resolved, though, and Geno and CVS continue to have a collegial relationship.
 
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Very interesting thread. With regard to Cappiegate, and as an addendum to JS' excellent post above;
1) CVS did not hear what Geno said; it was relayed to her by Cappie.
2) In the excitement of the moment, Cappie very probably and understandably translated what Geno actually said into NY street talk.
3) What CVS was steamed about was NOT what Geno had said, but what Cappie had TOLD her he had said, in translation. Hence the "no human being should have to listen to" remark.
4) Like a certain other coach, once the charge had been made CVS felt that she could not back down without losing face.
5) The whole thing was (I think) blown way out of proportion by the mediaand UConn fans. It did not appear to me that Geno was nearly as put out as wee a lot of Boneyard posters. He certainly NEVER showed anything but respect and affection for Cappie. My guess is that he pretty much figured out what had happened and didn't take it all that seriously.
6) Of course, I could be wrong, but this seems to me the most reasonable explanation of what actually happened.
 
Nan - nice summation. Anyone who has listened to a Cviv post game has gotten a feel for how off the wall she can be!
As for 'luck' - anyone that thinks Geno and CD never make mistakes in evaluating recruits ... ok. For the rest of us, they are not perfect. And if you can look at a coach and see that he has screwed up a few times - the ND halftime in 2001, the picking on Sue in practice to force her to break down (two things he has admitted were over the top) and not think that a 18-22 year old kid in the middle of a high pressure competitive situation might not make a mistake even though they are part of our sainted Uconn team doesn't know kids and forgets their own youth! I agree that Geno and CD would handle it well should it happen, but that they somehow have a magic touch that would prevent the possibility of it happening - not buying it.
Again - each year their are something like 350 D1 wcbb programs and in a bad year there are maybe five public incidents (most years fewer) involving D1 wcbb players - I like those odds. But multiplying those odds by 30 years of coaching you are getting into a range where 'luck' really is involved. Geno and CD emphasize character in their recruiting more than some other coaches, so their odds are probably better, but ...
I think BG for example is a 'good character' person, but she has also had to put up with a whole lot of crap from fans and opponents most of her life - ugly stuff that no one should ever be submitted to, and the kind of thing that mature adults might snap over, let alone a 18 year old kid. She snapped once and it was bad. Would that have happened at Uconn had she played here - quite possibly. And would Geno and CD have recruited her had she shown any interest - I am betting yes.
 
Didn't Muffet choose to define class acts in WBB and reference Summit vs Geno? If my memory is correct, that was a second example last year of Muffet's behavior in addition to snubbing Stewie. One post excused Muffet because she was under "pressure" with her undefeated team prior to the final. But didn't Geno get up and give his chair to Anchowa since she was on crutches? I suppose he knew UCONN would win so he was more relaxed.

Regarding UCONN being lucky that none of its women have made any behaviorial mistakes is an insult to all the effort the staff puts in to recruiting and life coaching. How many other programs don't allow tattoos and tweeting during the season?
 
watanabe said:
Wow, you just want to piss people off, don't you? Must be a BY infiltrator/sabateur.

Maybe a super good phsychiatrist to be able to point to Geno's "character flaws."

Bro, this is college basketball and within that context, Geno is simply pretty damned amazing.
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I'm pretty sure most contracts have some amorphous "character clause" in them, not aggravating opposing coaches is not included, and should, in fact be encouraged!
 
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