SI planning a story on Geno and Muffet?

[UcMiami]

1. I expect all coaches to stick up for their players in the heat of the moment so didn't have a problem with Cviv's initial reactions and the issue resolved itself quickly.

2. I think it is always easier to be gracious when you win and Uconn almost always wins.

3. And I think Uconn has done a very good job of training their players in public behavior and sportsmanship, but I also think they have been lucky - these are pretty young kids and in the heat of competition stuff can happen that everyone regrets after the fact - and it could happen with a Uconn player, too. Someday it probably will as just a law of averages kind of thing - there are 3500 or so WCBB D1 players and only a few incidents every year. Maybe one year it will involve a Uconn player.

4. Geno is a funny irreverent guy who likes to needle people. And he is generally pretty brutally honest about bigger issues. Sometimes the needling hits a nerve or his sense of humor is off. And sometimes a comment like 'Evil Empire' that most people found funny and apt, strikes others as more than a reference to a popular meme.

5. Geno came into the sport early when it was not usual for men to coach women and experienced or felt some hostility from the some of established female coaches. How much was real I have no idea, but he certainly perceived it and some of his behavior was influenced by that. I think some of that gender hostility still exists on both sides and it probably makes it easier at one level and also just generally to relate within gender than across gender professionally.

6. I think the thaw with Tara happened during a time when Stanford was very competitive with Uconn and not after. I think he seems to have a good relationship with Kim that has developed while Baylor was very competitive with Uconn.

7. I agree that MM did not seem comfortable in the role she assumed during the NCAA and the only action that bothered me (and i suspect in retrospect she regrets) was the award ceremony.

8. Finally - I do think there is a societal double standard in play that is very persistent in the USA. It takes all forms but it has to do with the words used to describe forceful, ambitious people of different genders - and it appears here from time to time. Coaching at the higher levels is full of strong personalities - Geno's attributes being a male are referred to with generally positive adjectives, MM and other female coaches maybe not so much.

 

[hoophuskee]

Yes, Geno is an amazing coach. He's got the record to back that up, both in terms of national championship wins and players he's developed.

But like watanabe said, Geno is flawed. He's human. He's not perfect. He can be snarky, abrasive and too smart mouthed at times. I think he is sensitive about being very successful in a sport still deemed "less" by many people because it is women's and not men's. I've heard it before- yeah he's got 9 national championships. But could he coach a men's team and do as well?? Crap like that. I'm sure he's heard it too.

Every human being on the planet is flawed. No groundbreaking news there. Your examples of his flaws though - as a point in general I like how he is snarky, abrasive and smart mouthed. SO if the most part I like what is he is saying - and once in a blue moon I don't like it- it means he is flawed in this circumstance?

 

[j66kicker]

Will be interesting to see what happens when the first legitimate rivalry develops with a team coached by a male. Although the gender jealousy thing is real, I'm not sure the gender of the competitor coach has anything to do with Geno's "personality defect." (I don't see it necessarily as a defect - just his personality.)

 

[hoophuskee]

1. I expect all coaches to stick up for their players in the heat of the moment so didn't have a problem with Cviv's initial reactions and the issue resolved itself quickly.

2. I think it is always easier to be gracious when you win and Uconn almost always wins.

3. And I think Uconn has done a very good job of training their players in public behavior and sportsmanship, but I also think they have been lucky - these are pretty young kids and in the heat of competition stuff can happen that everyone regrets after the fact - and it could happen with a Uconn player, too. Someday it probably will as just a law of averages kind of thing - there are 3500 or so WCBB D1 players and only a few incidents every year. Maybe one year it will involve a Uconn player.

4. Geno is a funny irreverent guy who likes to needle people. And he is generally pretty brutally honest about bigger issues. Sometimes the needling hits a nerve or his sense of humor is off. And sometimes a comment like 'Evil Empire' that most people found funny and apt, strikes others as more than a reference to a popular meme.

5. Geno came into the sport early when it was not usual for men to coach women and experienced or felt some hostility from the some of established female coaches. How much was real I have no idea, but he certainly perceived it and some of his behavior was influenced by that. I think some of that gender hostility still exists on both sides and it probably makes it easier at one level and also just generally to relate within gender than across gender professionally.

6. I think the thaw with Tara happened during a time when Stanford was very competitive with Uconn and not after. I think he seems to have a good relationship with Kim that has developed while Baylor was very competitive with Uconn.

7. I agree that MM did not seem comfortable in the role she assumed during the NCAA and the only action that bothered me (and i suspect in retrospect she regrets) was the award ceremony.

8. Finally - I do think there is a societal double standard in play that is very persistent in the USA. It takes all forms but it has to do with the words used to describe forceful, ambitious people of different genders - and it appears here from time to time. Coaching at the higher levels is full of strong personalities - Geno's attributes being a male are referred to with generally positive adjectives, MM and other female coaches maybe not so much.

I usually agree with your posts but I just have to say for number 1 I don't agree for one second. CViv went on afterwards and was accusatory of Geno. There is NO EXCUSE for that from a fellow coach. None. You (CViv) KNOW the coach. It goes beyond "sticking up for the player." To publicly rip another coach when you don't have the facts while your player has NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER to be putting her finger in the opposing coach's chest is WAY OUT OF LINE. THAT should have been her observation point that her player lost her cool. Cappie's behaviour should NOT have been acceptable in any manner. To stick up for that - is way out of line.

And I disagree on your luck point. Not so much for "luck." Because IF a player didn't conduct themselves properly Geno would hammer them later. I would EXPECT that. So for me it is irrelevant luck or no luck it's what the coach does afterwards. Was cappie punished by CViv? Nope - not that I remember. Was she? Do I think Geno would have punished his player? Yep imo. If he didn't then I'd be upset with him. Anyhow, imo you're looking at the moment which I think is irrelevant vs looking at the reaction of the coach afterwards. I "accept" that a kid could lose her cool. And I expect the coach to do something about it afterwards.

I think your number 5 is spot on.

I think your number 8 is true in some manner yet because it is true in some manner doesn't make it true in all manners. For Muffett - we'll just have to agree to disagree. How many in the mens game do we see publicly coming out with a preference of Pat Summitt vs Geno in college as Muffett said? Its petty. Anyhow l see the non-clapping for BS as a microcosm of her complete snap during the NCAA's an imo that can't be excused. At least for me as a husky fan- others want to excuse her that's their perogative. We can all agree to disagree on this.

 

[msf22b]

I was incensed as anyone at the awards ceremony
but Muffet's a fine coach; a wonderful coach, Does a lot with less.

And I think the championship argument is bogus.
I mean, how many championships can you win with Geno winning most years?
She's been right up there, year after year.
And I wish her more of the same.

 

[Wonkster]

I saw how classy she is when she sat on her hands when Stewie was honored.

Does everyone here remember that Muffett recruited Stewart?

 

[UcMiami]

I usually agree with your posts but I just have to say for number 1 I don't agree for one second. CViv went on afterwards and was accusatory of Geno. There is NO EXCUSE for that from a fellow coach. None. You (CViv) KNOW the coach. It goes beyond "sticking up for the player." To publicly rip another coach when you don't have the facts while your player has NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER to be putting her finger in the opposing coach's chest is WAY OUT OF LINE. THAT should have been her observation point that her player lost her cool. Cappie's behaviour should NOT have been acceptable in any manner. To stick up for that - is way out of line.

And I disagree on your luck point. Not so much for "luck." Because IF a player didn't conduct themselves properly Geno would hammer them later. I would EXPECT that. So for me it is irrelevant luck or no luck it's what the coach does afterwards. Was cappie punished by CViv? Nope - not that I remember. Was she? Do I think Geno would have punished his player? Yep imo. If he didn't then I'd be upset with him. Anyhow, imo you're looking at the moment which I think is irrelevant vs looking at the reaction of the coach afterwards. I "accept" that a kid could lose her cool. And I expect the coach to do something about it afterwards.

I think your number 5 is spot on.

I think your number 8 is true in some manner yet because it is true in some manner doesn't make it true in all manners. For Muffett - we'll just have to agree to disagree. How many in the mens game do we see publicly coming out with a preference of Pat Summitt vs Geno in college as Muffett said? Its petty. Anyhow l see the non-clapping for BS as a microcosm of her complete snap during the NCAA's an imo that can't be excused. At least for me as a husky fan- others want to excuse her that's their perogative. We can all agree to disagree on this.

As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved. No a great moment but from my perspective not a deal breaker either way.
As for the Luck - and Cappie-gate - seems like a total misunderstanding all around and what sort of punishment should have been handed out - nothing in my book. Another instance involving Geno - the Syracuse flap ... I think he instigated that by admonishing an opponents player when he should have talked to Q privately after the fact.
On point eight - it can be as simple as 'hasn't been the 'nicest'' in a post above to describe MM. I don't think anybody has ever expected Geno to be the 'nicest' or even think of using 'niceness' as a measuring stick for Geno or most men - and that was the point. We use different words and different standards and have different expectations for men and women and react differently to behaviors based on the gender of the actor. We even expect different behaviors on sports boards based on the gender of the athletes we follow. This board is 'civilized' while the men's board is more 'rough' or '____' fill in the blank.

 

[sarals24]

What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?

 

[sarals24]

Does everyone here remember that Muffett recruited Stewart?

Who DIDN'T recruit Stewart?

 

[UcMiami]

What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?

Yes - it seemed to date to that time frame.

 

[watanabe]

But like watanabe said, Geno is flawed. He's human.

Bro, Re-read my post. I never said this and never will. I KNOW some flawed people. Geno IS NOT one of them. There is nothing but complete admiration for him from this direction and I will always defend that.
Through his tireless efforts I have recieved some of the most greatest memories of my life and watched him touch more people in the most amazing ways than most of will ever have the chance. Personally I feel blessed that he has coached UConn huskies to this pinnacle. I have watched his team excel while living in many places and countries around the world. HE has made me pround to be a UConn alum more than anything else UConn has provided me (other than a great education).
I can't help but say that I am offended that some anonomous poster on this board would feel free to take cheap shots at him.

 

[hoophuskee]

As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved. No a great moment but from my perspective not a deal breaker either way.
In my opinion the answer to this is obvious. You should be skeptical of the kid who is more concentrated on playing. Secondly, CViv knows Geno to some extent. There is no logic to believe he was saying something that derogatory at RU. Third, CViv has to realize her team was probably favored or near even and “maybe” her player let her emotions run away with the disappointments of the defeat. After all these are kids not pros. Fourth, she knew her player snapped so the very fact she went overboard is tell-tale sign of someone you should be skeptical to believe. Fifth, CViv could have just asked Geno instead of being accusatory. You could single out one of these or 2 of these but imo not all 5.


As for the Luck - and Cappie-gate - seems like a total misunderstanding all around and what sort of punishment should have been handed out - nothing in my book.

What was nothing in your book? You wouldn’t give her any punishment? In mine she would get a punishment.

Another instance involving Geno - the Syracuse flap ... I think he instigated that by admonishing an opponents player when he should have talked to Q privately after the fact.

Tell me about the Syracuse thing again. I remember the player trying to trip Geno. A true classy gesture. This is the same team that he deliberately ran up the score on. What caused him to run it up? Is it his own character flaw hich was the cause as to why he ran it up? To what degree is ti a personaly/ character falw on anything? Anyway- I say no. How many times has he deliberately done it? There had to be a cause. If he felt his team and the coach didn’t give a damn and I think Geno had said at the time he was genuinely concerned for his kids– I can care less “he talked out of turn.” That’s what I like about him. IMO it’s not a character- personality flaw. And to a lesser degree it is refreshing.


On point eight - it can be as simple as 'hasn't been the 'nicest'' in a post above to describe MM.

People have a right to hate Geno. And vice-versa. There things that bother aggravate each person differently. Both ND and RU deserve the criticism imo. And I my opinion is not gender-biased I think there is a good reason to hate them. If you don’t want to – no problem. But I would disagree if someone categorized my opinion as gender-bias.

 

[hoophuskee]

What was the beef with Tara? Did it have to do with her treatment of Lobo during her reign as USA national team coach?

Yes.

And before that after we beatt hem she sort of said Tenn was going to rout us or she was rooting for Tenn.

Plus before the game soemone asked her of Sales and she responded in some manner that she had 10 Nykesha Sales.

 

[sarals24]

Man, if she had 10 Nykesha Sales, why didn't she win more national championships??

 

[JS]

As I remember the Cappie-gate situation Geno yelled something at one of his players during action in the game and Cappie thought whatever the comment it was directed at her an took offense. And if Geno had yelled at Cappie it would have been inappropriate and Cappie's reaction would not have been that far out of line - and Cviv knowing what Cappie thought had happened responded - yes she knew Geno but she also knew Cappie so who do you believe? It went away quickly and I don't think it festered with anyone involved.

Afraid I'd have to differ on a number of things in your recollection, Miami. You've got it considerably more benign than it was, IMO.

1. Geno didn't yell at one of his players. He yelled at a ref.

2. Matee Ajavon had been trash talking Ann Strother during the game in a way that went beyond normal trash talk and into the realm of the truly reprehensible. Will not go into it here. PM me if you want. [p.s. - without questioning the Strother part, someone has told me Matee was on Charde's case all game; again, I'll withhold the alleged subject of the jibes.]

3. Ajavon's yapping continued while Ann was at the foul line. [p.s. same informant says it was Charde at the line at the time.] Geno yelled at the ref "Tell her [Ajavon] to shut up."

4. Cappie thought the "her" was herself. If it had been, whatever her words, her post-game actions were out of line primarily because of the physical gestures on national TV. Still, no huge deal to this point. Cappie and Geno had a longstanding good personal relationship (which possibly gave Cappie the confidence to do what she did) and had both put it aside by the next day.

5. Because of some behavioral issues on the RU team in then-recent times, the AD and media person urged CVS to "get out front" in the post-game presser. That's when CVS disgraced herself with a lot of bull, live on ESPN, about how it was all Geno's fault -- including an allegation that he had said something to Cappie that "no human being should say" (a made-up innuendo that stoked the fires of those contending that CVS had an inclination to play the race card).

6. Geno responded, accurately, that "Vivian has no idea, none, what was said."

7. It didn't fester with anyone "involved," but it sure festered with the fans -- enough so that the RU Athletic Director made a public apology before the game in Connecticut the following season.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Yes - it seemed to date to that time frame.

I thought the beef with Tara had to do with her comment about having five Nykesha Sales on her team.

 

[Rudy2014]

Who out there believes (Muffet) ND would have won any NCs if Ralph and Abrosimova and hadn't gone down before the meat of the NCAAs? Two All-Americas? I don't. Muffet's a good recruiter and coach and her kids play there butts off. Geno and the UConn kids are just a step above. Fortunately, being a UConn fan, I like Geno's banter and candor. If I rooted for another university, it would probably be irritating.

 

[hoophuskee]

I was wrong about "10 Nykesha Sales" and the timing of the comment. And it was in 1993 when Tara said - they had 6 Nykesha saleses Anyhow Sara here is a link to some of the frost between the two at the time. Now it's all okay. This is from no one other than our friend Jeff Jacobs.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-12...uriemma-tara-vanderveer-vanderveer-s-stanford

There's a lot of good stuff in this article. Of which some of the stuff we are talking about now.

IMO Geno is refreshing.

"

 

[j66kicker]

I thought the beef with Tara had to do with her comment about having five Nykesha Sales on her team.

I think there were a couple things. My memory is that Tara, as Olympic coach, objected to the committee's selection of Lobo for the team - that she didn't give them the best chance to win (win "now", sorta like Stewie this year?). There was a lot of pressure to get Rebecca on the team as the poster child of the just-being-launched WNBA, and Tara lost that one. And then she punished Rebecca, seemingly in retaliation...

 

[j66kicker]

I was wrong about "10 Nykesha Sales" and the timing of the comment. And it was in 1993 when Tara said - they had 6 Nykesha saleses Anyhow Sara here is a link to some of the frost between the two at the time. Now it's all okay. This is from no one other than our friend Jeff Jacobs.

http://articles.courant.com/1997-12...uriemma-tara-vanderveer-vanderveer-s-stanford

There's a lot of good stuff in this article. Of which some of the stuff we are talking about now.

IMO Geno is refreshing.

"

Great article - I'm starting to dislike Tara all over again!

 

[JS]

I thought the beef with Tara had to do with her comment about having five Nykesha Sales on her team.

That apparently wasn't the biggest thing, if there ever was a thing. Here's the history, far as we know.

1993 - Stanford beats UConn by 20. Someone says UConn should do better in the future because they'd signed Nykesha Sales. Tara replies she just signed six Nykesha Sales. (She later denied saying it, but a Hartford Courant reporter had it on tape.)

1995 - Rebecca Lobo leads UConn to 35-0 season and NC.

1996 - Tara coaches the Olympic team. Many in Connecticut feel she slights the young media darling Lobo in certain ways.

1997 - Sales torches Stanford for 46 points. The six Nykeshas on the other side make no appearance.

2005 - After some years of ignoring each other, the teams play again. Geno and Tara both say they see each other on the road, get along fine and respect each other. Geno brushes off questions about the Sales remark, more or less as much ado about nothing.

But he does acknowledge the Lobo situation was difficult -- not Tara's fault and not Lobo's, but badly perceived in Connecticut. Tara acknowledges she isn't very well liked in the Nutmeg State, but basically says she did what she needed to do to win.

Over the ten years 2005-2015 (nearly), this tone of mutual respect hasn't varied. When Pat Summitt was going through her "We won't play UConn, ask Geno why" crap, Tara more or less said "Well we will. We want to play the best." And she did, in some memorable games.

Makes one wonder whether there ever really was any ill will between the coaches. Geno never publicly said anything about the Olympic PT issue (or for that matter whether Tara should've started Lobo for an exhibition in Connecticut, as many hereabouts thought she should have). The most he said at the time was he didn't have to talk to Tara and hadn't.

 

[hoophuskee]

Great article - I'm starting to dislike Tara all over again!

I hope your kidding!

 

[j66kicker]

I hope your kidding!

I never kid

 

[hoophuskee]

That apparently wasn't the biggest thing, if there ever was a thing. Here's the history, far as we know.

1993 - Stanford beats UConn by 20. Someone says UConn should do better in the future because they'd signed Nykesha Sales. Tara replies she just signed six Nykesha Sales. (She later denied saying it, but a Hartford Courant reporter had it on tape.)

1995 - Rebecca Lobo leads UConn to 35-0 season and NC.

1996 - Tara coaches the Olympic team. Many in Connecticut feel she slights the young media darling Lobo in certain ways.

1997 - Sales torches Stanford for 46 points. The six Nykeshas on the other side make no appearance.

2005 - After some years of ignoring each other, the teams play again. Geno and Tara both say they see each other on the road, get along fine and respect each other. Geno brushes off questions about the Sales remark, more or less as much ado about nothing.

But he does acknowledge the Lobo situation was difficult -- not Tara's fault and not Lobo's, but badly perceived in Connecticut. Tara acknowledges she isn't very well liked in the Nutmeg State, but basically says she did what she needed to do to win.

Over the ten years 2005-2015 (nearly), this tone of mutual respect hasn't varied. When Pat Summitt was going through her "We won't play UConn, ask Geno why" crap, Tara more or less said "Well we will. We want to play the best." And she did, in some memorable games.

Makes one wonder whether there ever really was any ill will between the coaches. Geno never publicly said anything about the Olympic PT issue (or for that matter whether Tara should've started Lobo for an exhibition in Connecticut, as many hereabouts thought she should have). The most he said at the time was he didn't have to talk to Tara and hadn't.

ThanksJS - I don't want to have this go back and forth - my dislike for tara has vanquished long ago. But one minor point I guess we can agree to disagree regrding "perceived in Ct." - the link I provided above - Jeff says the following:


"VanDerveer didn't like all the media and endorsement attention heaped on UConn's national icon when she wasn't even sure Lobo should be on her team. She rode Lobo hard. At one point, she decreed that Lobo had to run two miles in 16 minutes or she'd be locked down in Colorado Springs. Geno wasn't happy."

I'l just add I don't agree with anyone that thought back then Lobo was going to play. Like Laetener imo her slection was an honorary position of which I don't recall harsh treatment to Laetner. Thebackdrop of how things worked long ago and Geno wasn't liked in a certain groups--- I think valid / gives some vision why things happened. Here in Jeff's article this shows treatemnt was darn harsh. And I'll swear to my grave that Lobo was not expected to be a vital cog thus shouldn't have been given the heat she received. Things change and evolve every so often. Things have here.

But again for me water under the bridge. I really admire Tara. I respect her a lot and The Cardinal.

 

[Kibitzer]

Now I hope that Tara doesn't do a "HA-RUMPF!" and then condescendingly remind anyone listening:

"What's the big deal? I already have TWO Samuelsons!"​