Should players get a 5th year of eligibility?
- Thread starter HooperScooper
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I don't believe the NCAA has the legal ability to declare people they aren't paying who are actively pursuing a college degree that they can't play college basketball.
Since the NCAA has a monopoly on basketball played in college that offers opportunities for NIL compensation, the NCAA cannot arbitrarily exclude potential players from their ability to earn a living.
The 4 year cap on eligibility was arbitrary decided 50 years ago before there were NIL opportunities. There is no actual reason for 4 years that is necessary for basketball or college (a fairly large percentage of college students take longer than 4 years to earn a degree). And this is super especially true if the NCAA gives some people 5 years for various reasons.
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Ok so everything in life is arbitrary then. Must be amazing to walk around with this mindset. LeBron should be able to go play for Duke when he retires lol
PS: no one is forced to play college basketball. Can easily go play overseas or in the G league or overtime elite whatever it’s called
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shizzle787
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I'm not a fan of this, but oddly enough in Canadian U Sports, they get 5 years.There's been some talk about the NCAA giving players 5 years of eligibility. Now Zakai Zeigler of Tennessee is suing the NCAA to get a 5th year of eligibility. With revenue sharing and NIL I can see why players who aren't NBA worthy would want this.
Tennessee star guard Zakai Zeigler filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the NCAA seeking a fifth year of eligibility -- a potentially groundbreaking case that could have wide-reaching effects across college athletics.
Zeigler, a four-year college player, claims in the suit that he is "arbitrarily barred" from competing in the final year of his five-year eligibility window while pursuing a graduate degree. His legal team argues that the redshirt system favors NCAA institutions over athletes in determining who qualifies for a fifth year of eligibility.
The case could impact not only Zeigler's eligibility but also set a precedent for future athletes. While there is no direct precedent, the case may gain traction due to momentum in similar antitrust lawsuits against the NCAA.
Tennessee's Zakai Zeigler sues NCAA: What to know about the case that could alter college eligibility rules
Lawyers and CBS Sports experts weigh in on a case that carries the potential for wide-ranging change to college sportswww.cbssports.com
FfldCntyFan
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Pure speculation on my part but I imagine this lawsuit (which legitimately has zero grounds for an argument) was placed with the hope that the NCAA won't have the stomach to fight this and concede.
This will be a very slippery slope if they do concede as (which others have mentioned in this thread) it will open the door for six, seven, whatever eligibility limits someone would be willing to attempt.
Where this will have the biggest impact will be in sports where potential professional earnings won't approach what someone can earn in school (women's hoops comes to mind).
This is what happens when someone like Emmert is put in a leadership position and a flashpoint moment occurs while he is the guy in charge. Instead of doing his job and having a group determine the best way to implement a framework while remaining within the spirit of what NIL was ruled to allow, he just washed his hands of the matter and allowed what has transpired to transpire.
This will be a very slippery slope if they do concede as (which others have mentioned in this thread) it will open the door for six, seven, whatever eligibility limits someone would be willing to attempt.
Where this will have the biggest impact will be in sports where potential professional earnings won't approach what someone can earn in school (women's hoops comes to mind).
This is what happens when someone like Emmert is put in a leadership position and a flashpoint moment occurs while he is the guy in charge. Instead of doing his job and having a group determine the best way to implement a framework while remaining within the spirit of what NIL was ruled to allow, he just washed his hands of the matter and allowed what has transpired to transpire.
If you are a college student, you cannot play overseas or the g league, no.
The NCAA, as currently legally situated, probably does not have the grounds to deny a lot of people if they are college students from playing college basketball.
They need to change the NCAA model to give themselves legal cover (ie employees with a CBA).
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Well yeah I’m obviously talking about going overseas straight out of HS not enrolling at college. Obviously if you are a college student you can only play college ball.
I agree with you on the last point though
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This I think is a great point. While I am not in favor of 5 years of eligibility it may not change a whole lot. But if this opens the door for 6,7,8 years of eligibility I think it may just ruin the sport of college basketball.
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So we have kids intentionally stating back a year and reckassyfying back. Bow we add a fifth year. Players are gonna be 23 and 24 playing hoops. There is just no way an 18 year old is going to be able to get on these courts unless they are physically developed beyond their age or an nba level talent.
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It is not arbitrary. The vast majority of college graduates do it in 4. Some even call them 4 year schools.
Before NIL and the Portal and Covid it was exactly 4 years of play and you needed to redshirt a year to gain it in year 5 if you medically sat out one.
Covid 5 yr rule is over so it just goes back ti what it was. Ziegler will lose.
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Four years playing a particular sport.There's been some talk about the NCAA giving players 5 years of eligibility. Now Zakai Zeigler of Tennessee is suing the NCAA to get a 5th year of eligibility. With revenue sharing and NIL I can see why players who aren't NBA worthy would want this.
Tennessee star guard Zakai Zeigler filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the NCAA seeking a fifth year of eligibility -- a potentially groundbreaking case that could have wide-reaching effects across college athletics.
Zeigler, a four-year college player, claims in the suit that he is "arbitrarily barred" from competing in the final year of his five-year eligibility window while pursuing a graduate degree. His legal team argues that the redshirt system favors NCAA institutions over athletes in determining who qualifies for a fifth year of eligibility.
The case could impact not only Zeigler's eligibility but also set a precedent for future athletes. While there is no direct precedent, the case may gain traction due to momentum in similar antitrust lawsuits against the NCAA.
Tennessee's Zakai Zeigler sues NCAA: What to know about the case that could alter college eligibility rules
Lawyers and CBS Sports experts weigh in on a case that carries the potential for wide-ranging change to college sports
If after the four years the player does not have enough credits to graduate and will be able to complete their degree within a year then a one year scholarship but not playing.
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They ALWAYS should’ve had five years of eligibility.
Asking a player who has to devote so much time to a sport, to also take on a full course load, and complete it in four years, is why so many athletes never graduate.
Give them five years so at least have a chance to fit in both sports and academia and have a legitimate chance to get a diploma.
It’s a win-win I have no problem with it.
Asking a player who has to devote so much time to a sport, to also take on a full course load, and complete it in four years, is why so many athletes never graduate.
Give them five years so at least have a chance to fit in both sports and academia and have a legitimate chance to get a diploma.
It’s a win-win I have no problem with it.
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I want to have a collective bargaining agreement so everyone knows the rules. For years the NCAA has made arbitrary decisions that affect athletes and schools inconsistently. There would still be lawsuits or arbitration but at least the playing field would be much better defined.
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Should be 5 years to play 5. So few freshmen contribute anyway. You get more out of the final year.
Mike Honcho
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This is why they take summer classes -- they're spreading out the course load across an entire year rather than just 2 semesters. Emeka and Kemba were POYs who graduated in 3 years.
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Let them play for as long as they are taking classes, get as many degrees as they can. 
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The dead horse here is getting beaten every day...
Love the enthusiasm for 5 years and all but Universities are 4 year institutions. They are ranked, judged, built, etc for 4 years where 3 or 5 or more years is the exception. State schools being cheaper for residents, yes, I'm sure many of us knew a 7-year student at UConn when we were there. Mine was a Louie. But this is about athletics not studies.
Anyway as posted we are simply back to redshirt protocol as COVID's extra year provisions have ended.
The rule is as the rule was: 4 years of play - you can redshirt a year to gain that 4th year of play in your 5th year at University.
A lot of these lawsuits have little to no merit - some have more. I don't think it's the NCAA being FIFA-like, but more PGA-like. And my experience was a redshirt year, waaaayyy back before COVID (thankfully), NIL (regrettably) or transfer portal (indifferently).
Love the enthusiasm for 5 years and all but Universities are 4 year institutions. They are ranked, judged, built, etc for 4 years where 3 or 5 or more years is the exception. State schools being cheaper for residents, yes, I'm sure many of us knew a 7-year student at UConn when we were there. Mine was a Louie. But this is about athletics not studies.
Anyway as posted we are simply back to redshirt protocol as COVID's extra year provisions have ended.
The rule is as the rule was: 4 years of play - you can redshirt a year to gain that 4th year of play in your 5th year at University.
A lot of these lawsuits have little to no merit - some have more. I don't think it's the NCAA being FIFA-like, but more PGA-like. And my experience was a redshirt year, waaaayyy back before COVID (thankfully), NIL (regrettably) or transfer portal (indifferently).
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Except it's not that simple, the NCAA just passed a ruling where anyone who played a year of JUCO now gets 5 years of eligibility. That's the basis of Zeigler's argument, which he'll probably still lose. But it is not straightforward, and it is definitely arbitrary
HuskyHawk
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Yeah, this is nonsense. There are multiple pro options available, so massive competition and the NCAA doesn't have market power at all as currently situated.
No, a 5th year is a bad idea. Allowing international pros is also a bad idea. But then much of what has happened the last ten years was a bad idea, like unlimited transfers and no waiting period.
HuskyHawk
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But there's no situation where he can play at an NCAA institution for 5 years. He could redshirt if he and the school want, and get 5 years of school. That's a choice. If he was a crappy student and didn't graduate, he wouldn't get a 5th year. Do we not remember our own school getting dinged because guys didn't graduate in 4 years?
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True - that is for non-NCAA (e.g., JUCO) year and still conforms to the 5 year rule.
This is not about Ziegler as he never played JUCO. He wants 5 years of play, while the NCAA is pretty straightforward: 4 years of play at NCAA schools within a 5 year period (conforms to redshirt and this JUCO exception)
The JUCO rule was due to Pavia so they did a blanket one year thing if JUCO was your first year. His college got an injunction so Pavia did play that year and the NCAA just didn't want to get more of those. It's a one year thing as it's if they expired their NCAA eligibility 2024-2025.
Waquoit
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LOL! Ours was a Ron.
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There are zero pros.. what you list is nonsense. The purpose of college sports still is not to prepare people for the NBA or if it is, it is a failure on a cosmic level since only about 1.2% of college players end up in the NBA. People need to accept that their basketball playing days will end and most need to accept that will be sooner rather than later. Plus, with the portal there is absolutely no reason why a player shouldn’t be able to find a spot that matches his talent. I have no problem with a guy redshirting. Maybe even a limited playing time redshirt as football has. Maybe you appear in 5 games and still get to keep the year. But if you don’t play in even that many you are likely hitting the portal anyway. Plus once you decide not to limit players to a number of years you have completely transitioned to a professional program. Because as others have said, why stop at 5? The same logic would apply to 6,7, 15 wouldn’t it? This kid is mad that he needs to move on, and won’t get what is effectively a salary. I guess you could argue it sucks being him but that’s what happens when the rules change. I mean imagine how many points Pistol Pete would have had with the 3 point rule. Rules changed.
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Even if that is the case, and I don’t agree it is, it isn’t applicable in this case. He will be a grad student. Not a case of being in a 6 year program. And what about a guy like Alex who graduated in 3? Based on your argument he should be done.
Grad students can write for the Daily Campus for the entire time they're on campus. Why shouldn't basketball players?
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Oh please stop. Basketball players get too many special privileges to list. It isn’t and never has been comparable to what normal students, most of whom, you know, pay for their education, get. And nobody recruits writers for the daily campus. I doubt they get NIL or revenue sharing. Accept that basketball players aren’t normal students.
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Whats next someone suing the NCAA because they have to be at school.
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Zeigler, and others in similar situations, should not receive another year of eligibility.
Many have mentioned arguments for 5th year players ranging from redshirt freshman all the way to those attempting doctorates.
Those arguing that redshirting and injury ought to guarantee “5th year eligibility” both understand that the player is still only playing 4 years of basketball. One being intentional and the other unintentional. In both of those scenarios though, the player is getting their 4th year of play, during their 5th year in college. Those players are still in college, to play basketball. That’s why they are still enrolled.
NIL has turned players into employees. On the surface, that is a fact. Calling them student athletes, is solely because they still enroll at the school. NIL isn’t for the guy playing in the Horizon League. It’s to benefit the guys playing power conference teams, with power conference profits. That they should get their fair share.
Zeigler arguing that he needs to play 5 years for a graduate degree is very different than players asking to play 4 years over a 5 year span. His argument that “hey I’m still in school, let me play” is disingenuous. He wants the check. Better to try and get that money this year than have to attempt the pros and most likely have to play overseas.
College is changing significantly with NIL. And that has created some exciting changes and some not so exciting changes. But there needs to be something that the schools can retain, so we can keep calling this college basketball. Keeping 4 years on the court keeps the age of players similar. Keeps the playing field more even. We don’t need players masquerading as doctors, on the court making millions, at an age so disparate to the competition that it becomes unfair.
Everyone gets 4 years to play. That is fair. Zeigler doesn’t deserve more.
Many have mentioned arguments for 5th year players ranging from redshirt freshman all the way to those attempting doctorates.
Those arguing that redshirting and injury ought to guarantee “5th year eligibility” both understand that the player is still only playing 4 years of basketball. One being intentional and the other unintentional. In both of those scenarios though, the player is getting their 4th year of play, during their 5th year in college. Those players are still in college, to play basketball. That’s why they are still enrolled.
NIL has turned players into employees. On the surface, that is a fact. Calling them student athletes, is solely because they still enroll at the school. NIL isn’t for the guy playing in the Horizon League. It’s to benefit the guys playing power conference teams, with power conference profits. That they should get their fair share.
Zeigler arguing that he needs to play 5 years for a graduate degree is very different than players asking to play 4 years over a 5 year span. His argument that “hey I’m still in school, let me play” is disingenuous. He wants the check. Better to try and get that money this year than have to attempt the pros and most likely have to play overseas.
College is changing significantly with NIL. And that has created some exciting changes and some not so exciting changes. But there needs to be something that the schools can retain, so we can keep calling this college basketball. Keeping 4 years on the court keeps the age of players similar. Keeps the playing field more even. We don’t need players masquerading as doctors, on the court making millions, at an age so disparate to the competition that it becomes unfair.
Everyone gets 4 years to play. That is fair. Zeigler doesn’t deserve more.
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