Should players get a 5th year of eligibility?

[UConnTrumbull]

You're not understanding Ziegler's argument. The crux of his argument is that him playing 4 years and graduating is depriving him of the 5th year of graduate school and NIL money that comes with that.

If he had not worked as hard, taken less classes, and not graduated he'd still be able to enroll at Tennessee next year as a graduate student on scholarship. If him and Tennessee had decided had decided to hold him out and not play like other schools, he'd be able to do the same thing. That's the standpoint he's approaching it from as arbitrary

So his argument is that he didn’t game the system. I respect that. But I disagree with it. 4 years of 30+ games played. If you let that go then you let anything go.

 

[auror]

Playing for 4 years is not arbitrary. If it takes longer to play those 4 years then fine. Ziegler has played 30 games per year for 4 years. That’s enough.

Otherwise what you’re saying is a guy can play nonstop from age 18-26 as long as they’re enrolled in college courses. Can make a career out of that. Silly!

He can make 3 million dollars this year if he plays. Why would 4 years be "enough" if he can make more money playing in college basketball than elsewhere?

Who decides it's "enough" and why? He will be enrolled in college and taking classes. That's the arbitrary part.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

He can make 3 million dollars this year if he plays. Why would 4 years be "enough" if he can make more money playing in college basketball than elsewhere?

Who decides it's "enough"? He will be enrolled in college and taking classes. That's the arbitrary part.

I mean, the NCAA decides if it’s enough. Like I said before. If this gets allowed then you might as well allow guys to play a decade. That’s why I’m in favor of the “5 years to play 4” rule. No one wants college basketball to be the NBA G League.

 

[navery12]

So his argument is that he didn’t game the system. I respect that. But I disagree with it. 4 years of 30+ games played. If you let that go then you let anything go.

I don't disagree and that's where we're headed is no exemptions and a straight 5 years. But they're already letting the 4 years of 30 games go for some guys and not for others. If you play 30 games at a JUCO and graduate in 4 years, you get to play next year. If you played it at Tennessee and graduate in 4 years, you can't

 

[UConnTrumbull]

I don't disagree and that's where we're headed is no exemptions and a straight 5 years. But they're already letting the 4 years of 30 games go for some guys and not for others. If you play 30 games at a JUCO and graduate in 4 years, you get to play next year. If you played it at Tennessee and graduate in 4 years, you can't

Yeah the JUCO rule is crazy to me

 

[Fishy]

No. Play four years and then go away.

 

[auror]

I mean, the NCAA decides if it’s enough. Like I said before. If this gets allowed then you might as well allow guys to play a decade. That’s why I’m in favor of the “5 years to play 4” rule. No one wants college basketball to be the NBA G League.

I don't believe the NCAA has the legal ability to declare people they aren't paying who are actively pursuing a college degree that they can't play college basketball.

Since the NCAA has a monopoly on basketball played in college that offers opportunities for NIL compensation, the NCAA cannot arbitrarily exclude potential players from their ability to earn a living.

The 4 year cap on eligibility was arbitrary decided 50 years ago before there were NIL opportunities. There is no actual reason for 4 years that is necessary for basketball or college (a fairly large percentage of college students take longer than 4 years to earn a degree). And this is super especially true if the NCAA gives some people 5 years for various reasons.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

I don't believe the NCAA has the legal ability to declare people they aren't paying who are actively pursuing a college degree that they can't play college basketball.

Since the NCAA has a monopoly on basketball played in college that offers opportunities for NIL compensation, the NCAA cannot arbitrarily exclude potential players from their ability to earn a living.

The 4 year cap on eligibility was arbitrary decided 50 years ago before there were NIL opportunities. There is no actual reason for 4 years that is necessary for basketball or college (a fairly large percentage of college students take longer than 4 years to earn a degree). And this is super especially true if the NCAA gives some people 5 years for various reasons.

Ok so everything in life is arbitrary then. Must be amazing to walk around with this mindset. LeBron should be able to go play for Duke when he retires lol

PS: no one is forced to play college basketball. Can easily go play overseas or in the G league or overtime elite whatever it’s called

 

[shizzle787]

There's been some talk about the NCAA giving players 5 years of eligibility. Now Zakai Zeigler of Tennessee is suing the NCAA to get a 5th year of eligibility. With revenue sharing and NIL I can see why players who aren't NBA worthy would want this.

Tennessee star guard Zakai Zeigler filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the NCAA seeking a fifth year of eligibility -- a potentially groundbreaking case that could have wide-reaching effects across college athletics.

Zeigler, a four-year college player, claims in the suit that he is "arbitrarily barred" from competing in the final year of his five-year eligibility window while pursuing a graduate degree. His legal team argues that the redshirt system favors NCAA institutions over athletes in determining who qualifies for a fifth year of eligibility.

The case could impact not only Zeigler's eligibility but also set a precedent for future athletes. While there is no direct precedent, the case may gain traction due to momentum in similar antitrust lawsuits against the NCAA.

Tennessee's Zakai Zeigler sues NCAA: What to know about the case that could alter college eligibility rules

Lawyers and CBS Sports experts weigh in on a case that carries the potential for wide-ranging change to college sports

www.cbssports.com

I'm not a fan of this, but oddly enough in Canadian U Sports, they get 5 years.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Pure speculation on my part but I imagine this lawsuit (which legitimately has zero grounds for an argument) was placed with the hope that the NCAA won't have the stomach to fight this and concede.

This will be a very slippery slope if they do concede as (which others have mentioned in this thread) it will open the door for six, seven, whatever eligibility limits someone would be willing to attempt.

Where this will have the biggest impact will be in sports where potential professional earnings won't approach what someone can earn in school (women's hoops comes to mind).

This is what happens when someone like Emmert is put in a leadership position and a flashpoint moment occurs while he is the guy in charge. Instead of doing his job and having a group determine the best way to implement a framework while remaining within the spirit of what NIL was ruled to allow, he just washed his hands of the matter and allowed what has transpired to transpire.

 

[auror]

Ok so everything in life is arbitrary then. Must be amazing to walk around with this mindset. LeBron should be able to go play for Duke when he retires lol

PS: no one is forced to play college basketball. Can easily go play overseas or in the G league or overtime elite whatever it’s called

If you are a college student, you cannot play overseas or the g league, no.

The NCAA, as currently legally situated, probably does not have the grounds to deny a lot of people if they are college students from playing college basketball.

They need to change the NCAA model to give themselves legal cover (ie employees with a CBA).

 

[UConnTrumbull]

If you are a college student, you cannot play overseas or the g league, no.

The NCAA, as currently legally situated, probably does not have the grounds to deny a lot of people if they are college students from playing college basketball.

They need to change the NCAA model to give themselves legal cover (ie employees with a CBA).

Well yeah I’m obviously talking about going overseas straight out of HS not enrolling at college. Obviously if you are a college student you can only play college ball.

I agree with you on the last point though

 

[Jbirdp5]

Pure speculation on my part but I imagine this lawsuit (which legitimately has zero grounds for an argument) was placed with the hope that the NCAA won't have the stomach to fight this and concede.

This will be a very slippery slope if they do concede as (which others have mentioned in this thread) it will open the door for six, seven, whatever eligibility limits someone would be willing to attempt.

Where this will have the biggest impact will be in sports where potential professional earnings won't approach what someone can earn in school (women's hoops comes to mind).

This is what happens when someone like Emmert is put in a leadership position and a flashpoint moment occurs while he is the guy in charge. Instead of doing his job and having a group determine the best way to implement a framework while remaining within the spirit of what NIL was ruled to allow, he just washed his hands of the matter and allowed what has transpired to transpire.

This I think is a great point. While I am not in favor of 5 years of eligibility it may not change a whole lot. But if this opens the door for 6,7,8 years of eligibility I think it may just ruin the sport of college basketball.

 

[JohnFSilver]

So we have kids intentionally stating back a year and reckassyfying back. Bow we add a fifth year. Players are gonna be 23 and 24 playing hoops. There is just no way an 18 year old is going to be able to get on these courts unless they are physically developed beyond their age or an nba level talent.

 

[Lafayette]

4 years is arbitrary when someone can be in college for longer than 4 years. It's a college basketball league. Why is someone not eligible as long as they are in college? Plenty of majors and programs are longer than 4 years.

It is not arbitrary. The vast majority of college graduates do it in 4. Some even call them 4 year schools.

Before NIL and the Portal and Covid it was exactly 4 years of play and you needed to redshirt a year to gain it in year 5 if you medically sat out one.

Covid 5 yr rule is over so it just goes back ti what it was. Ziegler will lose.

 

[cullaville]

There's been some talk about the NCAA giving players 5 years of eligibility. Now Zakai Zeigler of Tennessee is suing the NCAA to get a 5th year of eligibility. With revenue sharing and NIL I can see why players who aren't NBA worthy would want this.

Tennessee star guard Zakai Zeigler filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the NCAA seeking a fifth year of eligibility -- a potentially groundbreaking case that could have wide-reaching effects across college athletics.

Zeigler, a four-year college player, claims in the suit that he is "arbitrarily barred" from competing in the final year of his five-year eligibility window while pursuing a graduate degree. His legal team argues that the redshirt system favors NCAA institutions over athletes in determining who qualifies for a fifth year of eligibility.

The case could impact not only Zeigler's eligibility but also set a precedent for future athletes. While there is no direct precedent, the case may gain traction due to momentum in similar antitrust lawsuits against the NCAA.

Tennessee's Zakai Zeigler sues NCAA: What to know about the case that could alter college eligibility rules

Lawyers and CBS Sports experts weigh in on a case that carries the potential for wide-ranging change to college sports

www.cbssports.com

Four years playing a particular sport.

If after the four years the player does not have enough credits to graduate and will be able to complete their degree within a year then a one year scholarship but not playing.

 

[Waquoit]

Four years is enough. I understood and supported the COVID exception because it was an exception under extraordinary circumstances.

 

[MuchoDogYears]

They ALWAYS should’ve had five years of eligibility.

Asking a player who has to devote so much time to a sport, to also take on a full course load, and complete it in four years, is why so many athletes never graduate.

Give them five years so at least have a chance to fit in both sports and academia and have a legitimate chance to get a diploma.

It’s a win-win I have no problem with it.

 

[Scoe]

Why not 20 years, who doesn't want AK here till he's in his 40s.

 

[Yorkeez4]

I want to have a collective bargaining agreement so everyone knows the rules. For years the NCAA has made arbitrary decisions that affect athletes and schools inconsistently. There would still be lawsuits or arbitration but at least the playing field would be much better defined.

 

[JohnFSilver]

I want to have a collective bargaining agreement so everyone knows the rules. For years the NCAA has made arbitrary decisions that affect athletes and schools inconsistently. There would still be lawsuits or arbitration but at least the playing field would be much better defined.

They ALWAYS should’ve had five years of eligibility.

Asking a player who has to devote so much time to a sport, to also take on a full course load, and complete it in four years, is why so many athletes never graduate.

Give them five years so at least have a chance to fit in both sports and academia and have a legitimate chance to get a diploma.

It’s a win-win I have no problem with it.

Should be 5 years to play 5. So few freshmen contribute anyway. You get more out of the final year.

 

[Mike Honcho]

They ALWAYS should’ve had five years of eligibility.

Asking a player who has to devote so much time to a sport, to also take on a full course load, and complete it in four years, is why so many athletes never graduate.

Give them five years so at least have a chance to fit in both sports and academia and have a legitimate chance to get a diploma.

It’s a win-win I have no problem with it.

This is why they take summer classes -- they're spreading out the course load across an entire year rather than just 2 semesters. Emeka and Kemba were POYs who graduated in 3 years.

 

[Stinger92860]

Let them play for as long as they are taking classes, get as many degrees as they can.

 

[Lafayette]

The dead horse here is getting beaten every day...

Love the enthusiasm for 5 years and all but Universities are 4 year institutions. They are ranked, judged, built, etc for 4 years where 3 or 5 or more years is the exception. State schools being cheaper for residents, yes, I'm sure many of us knew a 7-year student at UConn when we were there. Mine was a Louie. But this is about athletics not studies.

Anyway as posted we are simply back to redshirt protocol as COVID's extra year provisions have ended.
The rule is as the rule was: 4 years of play - you can redshirt a year to gain that 4th year of play in your 5th year at University.

A lot of these lawsuits have little to no merit - some have more. I don't think it's the NCAA being FIFA-like, but more PGA-like. And my experience was a redshirt year, waaaayyy back before COVID (thankfully), NIL (regrettably) or transfer portal (indifferently).

 

[navery12]

Covid 5 yr rule is over so it just goes back ti what it was. Ziegler will lose.

Except it's not that simple, the NCAA just passed a ruling where anyone who played a year of JUCO now gets 5 years of eligibility. That's the basis of Zeigler's argument, which he'll probably still lose. But it is not straightforward, and it is definitely arbitrary