Senior Brewer leaving UT

[EricLA]

Was it considered the 2nd best? I know the 91 HS class also had high expectations, and perhaps some in the 80s.

honestly i don't know. i only have tennessee recruiting info going back t0 1995. Manning, Grey, Stricklen, Brewer and Johnson were all top 20 kids and i think Grey, Johnson and Stricklen/Manning were all in the top 10 by at least one service. Bass was not in anyone's top 20. i'm not sure what other recruits were in the classes that included Catchings and Holdsclaw.

another class that was rated really high was Ely, Moore, Munoz, Jackson, and Young (2001). not sure if that class was rated higher.

 

[connboy77]

Interesting, I was just mulling over the redshirt option. I wondered about the exact opposite. What if Brewer was legitimately concerned about her current health, and suggested that a year off might be the best thing for her. What if the response by Pat is, yes, that helps you, but doesn't help us. Just speculating, but what if Pat is thinking with the loss of Cain, and two frosh bigs, she needs post help this year, but next year she will be fine. What if they both conclude that a year off is good for Brewer, but doesn't do much for the LV's and the only other option is to play the last year elsewhere?

You just may be right Phil, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[msf22b]

The thing about Brewer is: that when she was healthy, she was a major scoring threat, a wonderful touch around the basket, a superb garbage collector, for me: one of the young lady's of that team that I truly feared.
She had an independent streak as well; I have no idea what happened, but she was one dangerous dude! too bad for them. Good for the rest of us.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

honestly i don't know. i only have tennessee recruiting info going back t0 1995. Manning, Grey, Stricklen, Brewer and Johnson were all top 20 kids and i think Grey, Johnson and Stricklen/Manning were all in the top 10 by at least one service. Bass was not in anyone's top 20. i'm not sure what other recruits were in the classes that included Catchings and Holdsclaw.

another class that was rated really high was Ely, Moore, Munoz, Jackson, and Young (2001). not sure if that class was rated higher.

Yes! True they have underperformed. Do you guys remember if Tennessee was recruiting a PG in this group, because I feel that is what this group is truly missing. Yes Strickland did an ok job, but she was NOT a PG. I think this hurt her too, because she couldn't play her natural spot. Just wondering if anyone knew?

 

[EricLA]

Yes! True they have underperformed. Do you guys remember if Tennessee was recruiting a PG in this group, because I feel that is what this group is truly missing. Yes Strickland did an ok job, but she was NOT a PG. I think this hurt her too, because she couldn't play her natural spot. Just wondering if anyone knew?

Tennessee ebbs and flows in the recruiting of PG's IMHO. back in the day they had Marciniak, then Kristen Clement, then Loree Moore, but then injuries and transfers required them to look at the JUCO ranks to get Bobbitt. then they went dry (they got Bass as part of the Anaconda class, but she's not an elite level PG) and had to rely on Stricklen and Williams until they have Massengale coming in this year.

they also landed Cait McMahan in 2006, but chronic knee issues including several surgeries ultimately derailed her career, and Sade Wiley in 2004, who was grossly over rated and ended up transferring to Maryland where she finished her lackluster college hoops career.

 

[Vowelguy]

Yes! True they have underperformed. Do you guys remember if Tennessee was recruiting a PG in this group, because I feel that is what this group is truly missing. Yes Strickland did an ok job, but she was NOT a PG. I think this hurt her too, because she couldn't play her natural spot. Just wondering if anyone knew?

Bass in the PG in this class.

 

[tigger]

First of all, I see something missing, and that is the Harrison/Burdick issue. NO ONE has indicated that they expect much of anything from Harrison, and not lots more from Burdick. Has everyone forgotten DOLSON? She was not as highly regarded by rating systems as either of the previous two. Yet, she turned out to be more than OK, I think all will agree.

Why is everyone ruling out the possibility that Harrison and/or Burdick can step in and play right away? Burdick is a Top 5 player by everyone. And Stricklin is 6'2" and can play 2, 3, or 4.

Also, Ely was not a true center, either. Now of course, she had somebody named Candace who could play 1-5, who picked up her slack. (she is now a center in the W correct?)

I think Pat's biggest problem is that she will only have 6 players returning. She's got 3 committed, but she obviously needs more, and I personally don't want her to get Hollivay, Adams, or Howard. I may sound cruel, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if they had 9 players going into next year...JC here we come!!!

Has everyone forgotten Louisville when Angel was a senior? They had no center!!

ND's Peters is only 6'2", and everyone seems to think that she can handle anybody but Griner. The tallest player on the team is Achonwa at 6'3", so they have no true center and yet everybody thinks they're gonna win the NC!!

And let's all remember that A&M won the NC with a SIX FOOT, ONE INCH tall center. Gilbert only played about 10 minutes and scored around 3 points per game. Kind of off topic, but they certainly don't have that problem this year---they are HUGE, as are Stanford, Baylor, and LSU (whose gonna have backcourt issues).

The first two times LSU went to the FF we had no center, except the second year when Sylvia saw 10 to 15 minutes a game.

I still maintain that UT's main problem is depth---even if they get production from Burdick and Harrison, they're going to have to get really good MINUTES from them AND Baugh. Otherwise, you can't play a 30 game season and post-season with 6 players taking most of the minutes. They simply won't make it that far physically.

I guess what I'm saying is that Pat may be in some trouble this year, but as much as a hate to say it, it just doesn't matter because Baylor will be virtually unstoppable.

just my 2 cents...

 

[Ctpaul0825]

Will there be others that transfer? My guess is yes, especially if UT under performs again this year and Pat's disease appears to impact her coaching. How far along is she with her memory and decision making? This is a disease you can't really hide, I have had at least 5 family members suffer through it.

 

[Icebear]

Will there be others that transfer? My guess is yes, especially if UT under performs again this year and Pat's disease appears to impact her coaching. How far along is she with her memory and decision making? This is a disease you can't really hide, I have had at least 5 family members suffer through it.

The decision making impact of Alzheimer's is something many people do not recognize about the illness. One of the regular signs for those with Alzheimer's is the inability to make simple decisions they have made their whole life like choosing something to eat off a menu or choosing between two things to do. Fits of anger can, also, be common from overloading frustration and the loss of self control functions in the fore brain.

CT ail, having been down the path with a family member and a variety of parishioners I feel for your experience, blessings and prayers to all.

 

[Vowelguy]

Will there be others that transfer? My guess is yes, especially if UT under performs again this year and Pat's disease appears to impact her coaching. How far along is she with her memory and decision making? This is a disease you can't really hide, I have had at least 5 family members suffer through it.

(1) There's no one left to transfer. I'm not joking; the Vols have 6 underclassmen (Next year, Spani will be a SR, Williams a RS JR, Simmons a JR, and this year's 3 frosh).

(2) Few people have better access to high-quality care. She will be well-monitored, and I presume she & her staff have already thoroughly discussed decision making. I'm sure the transformation is well underway to making her more of a figure head with the majority of the work falling on her assistants.

 

[EricLA]

First of all, I see something missing, and that is the Harrison/Burdick issue. NO ONE has indicated that they expect much of anything from Harrison, and not lots more from Burdick. Has everyone forgotten DOLSON? She was not as highly regarded by rating systems as either of the previous two. Yet, she turned out to be more than OK, I think all will agree.

Why is everyone ruling out the possibility that Harrison and/or Burdick can step in and play right away? Burdick is a Top 5 player by everyone. And Stricklin is 6'2" and can play 2, 3, or 4.

I think Pat's biggest problem is that she will only have 6 players returning. She's got 3 committed, but she obviously needs more, and I personally don't want her to get Hollivay, Adams, or Howard. I may sound cruel, but it wouldn't bother me in the least if they had 9 players going into next year...JC here we come!!!

I still maintain that UT's main problem is depth---even if they get production from Burdick and Harrison, they're going to have to get really good MINUTES from them AND Baugh. Otherwise, you can't play a 30 game season and post-season with 6 players taking most of the minutes. They simply won't make it that far physically.

I guess what I'm saying is that Pat may be in some trouble this year, but as much as a hate to say it, it just doesn't matter because Baylor will be virtually unstoppable.

just my 2 cents...

hey tiggs... i took out some of your comments as it was a long post and i only wanted to reply to some of it anyway!

Burdick is a 4 who wants to be a 3 (per her comments). she's certainly athletic and i expect her to contribute much like Walker did for UCONN before she left. i don't think tennessee's problem is depth, per se. 9 players is enough for a team to make a NC run. UCONN usually plays 7 or a max of 8 in big games anyway. their starting is as talented on paper as almost anyone else in the country. their problem is size.

Baugh - 6'4", athletic, coming off injuries that sidelined her for much of the past 2 years
Johnson - 6'2", another athlete who is a horrid FT shooter but active everywhere
Stricklen - 6'1", a natural wing who will get to play her natural position finally
Simmons - 5'9", slender shooting guard extraordinaire
Massengale - 5'7", proved in the USA games that she's a terrific PG

on paper, that's as talented as any final 4 contender this year. but the problem is the bench. in general, for Baugh and Johnson, you have only Harrison and Burdick, both freshmen, unless you want to count 6'1" Manning and Spani as forwards, which they certainly can do effectively. the main issue is the 5 spot. they can play all day with 4's in the 6'0" to 6'1" range.

for guards, all you have is Bass, who's not really good enough to compete at an elite level. so that means when Massengale comes out, either Simmons or Stricklen takes over the 1 and you have Spani and Manning coming in as the 2 or 3. they will have 9 players, but several of them could be playing "out" of their natural/comfortable position. i think tennessee will have problems against teams with centers who are tall, strong, athetic, and/or mobile. as i said before teams like Maryland, LSU, UCONN, Stanford, Baylor, Miami, Duke, and maybe a few others i'm not remembering at the moment.

i'm not saying they can't win, but games will be closer and the coaches will really have to monitor how much wear and tear Baugh takes during the year, and hope Harrison is ready for prime time. additionally, they will have issues at the guard spots as Bass, at 5'2", is nothing like Bobbitt or even Dixon for UCONN last year.

like you i hope they get shut out of any and all top recruits. Howard already eliminated tennessee. Adams (IMHO) ends up at USC. i hope Hollivay chooses RU or OU. that makes Russell an absolute must get for them next year, and to be honest, i think they have a harder and harder time as Pat's condition slowly but surely deteriorates. tennessee is going to be a tough sell for kids in the 2013 class and it will get worse after that.

 

[willtalk]

I fear there might be more of an impact that Alzheimers might have on a type A personality such as Pats. This would manifest itself far more in her case as opposed to to those who were more placid and in a less stressful environment. There have been numerous statements on this thread about things going on at Tenn. It would be natural, especially for Pat. who has always been sharp and on top of things to have an emotional reaction to the percieved loss of her natural abilities. Her abilities to reason and think quickly are a major part of her identity and self. To her it would not just be a loss of her faculties but a loss of herself. This would make her period of denial rougher than most resulting in strong emotional reactions which would impact her decision making negatively even beyond Alzheimers effect on her mental capacity.

 

[justML]

to be honest, i think they have a harder and harder time as Pat's condition slowly but surely deteriorates. tennessee is going to be a tough sell for kids in the 2013 class and it will get worse after that.

No matter what's happened in the past, the truth of your statement just saddens me to the core. Alzheimer's disease is a dirty thief.

 

[Vowelguy]

I fear there might be more of an impact that Alzheimers might have on a type A personality such as Pats. This would manifest itself far more in her case as opposed to to those who were more placid and in a less stressful environment. There have been numerous statements on this thread about things going on at Tenn. It would be natural, especially for Pat. who has always been sharp and on top of things to have an emotional reaction to the percieved loss of her natural abilities. Her abilities to reason and think quickly are a major part of her identity and self. To her it would not just be a loss of her faculties but a loss of herself. This would make her period of denial rougher than most resulting in strong emotional reactions which would impact her decision making negatively even beyond Alzheimers effect on her mental capacity.

We already have enough speculation on this board, with folks believing they know what 16-yr old girls are thinking and will want to do. Do we really need speculation on how a terrible degenerative disease is going to affect a particular person and how she may (or may not) react?

Nobody on this board knows her personally nor the specifics of her prognosis. It is unfortunate for anyone to specuulate on whether she will fare better or worse than other patients.

 

[willtalk]

We already have enough speculation on this board, with folks believing they know what 16-yr old girls are thinking and will want to do. Do we really need speculation on how a terrible degenerative disease is going to affect a particular person and how she may (or may not) react?

Nobody on this board knows her personally nor the specifics of her prognosis. It is unfortunate for anyone to specuulate on whether she will fare better or worse than other patients.

Actually I am not speculating but only a response to observation that would be in refence to things that have already transpired.She is now aware and no longer in denial so that should not effect her anymore. I was referring to an explaination for certain out of character actions during the last season that some people ( and now it appears very unjustly ) raked her over the coals for. This was not a slam on her character or her personally but only to bring light to or explain past circumstances. I only saying that she has been dealing with far more than the average person who suffers from that desease. It is a testement to her perserverance in regard to what she was dealing with and has accomplished despite off. My post was never about her prognosis but the effects on a person as they go though the process of recognition and denial.

Long before it became known that Pat was suffering from EOD, it appeared to me that she was on the decline in relation to her previous high standards of coaching . This was based on subtle observations. Recognize that some people are able to perceive certain things that escape others notice. Her diagnosis gave those observations reason and made sense of them to me. They same can be said for the effects on a person during a period of denial. Reconizing this helps to makes sense of past actions. Do you want me to get specific ? I don't think that serves any purpose. What I am really saying in my previous post is that in recognizing her condition she has already over come her most difficult obstacle. Which in my eyes might even be the most admirable accomplishment in her life. I is obvious that you did not understand the meaning or intent of my post. It was meant to help understand what she had been dealing with this past year in order to put it into context. No speculation what so ever since speculation mostly deals with the future not the past.

 

[tigger]

"i don't think tennessee's problem is depth, per se. 9 players is enough for a team to make a NC run....on paper, that's as talented as any final 4 contender this year. but the problem is the bench."

Ok Eric, I hate to mince words but wouldn't that qualify as depth? You articulated it much better than I, but Geno uses 9 players that fit into his "system", which allows him success with them. Pat's "system" is imploding and the support players don't fit with the first five for cohesiveness, etc.

That said, as an aside, I apologize for my long-winded posts--but I gotta say what I gotta say. And, thank goodness you're not very shy about using as much space as you need, either.

I have never been a big Pat fan, but this is just devastating. She should have been able to go out on her terms...period. She deserves that. My "dream" was sort of that, after the next 5 or so years, she'd be so tired of getting beat by LSU and stuff that she would retire with dignity.

The only part of that that may happen is losing to LSU, because I agree that recruiting got much harder the day she went public. Every class, starting with the '11 ones, are IMO faced with the fact that Pat won't be there for their whole career. If she doesn't get at least 2 more this year, Mercedes and Kaela wouldn't be nearly enough. She'll lose just Spani in 13, assuming Williams RS's and returns. As it stands now, she's looking at having 9 players for '12 and '13. They need help this year badly.

Right now though, my big worry is my Lady Tigers---we have GOT to get Prince. Right now, we're in the same boat as UT---we only have 9 players for '12. I'd love Holmes too, since y'all don't want her. Nobody but Prince is listed on HG as looking at us, but that often means little, IMO. I'm also holding out for a "surprise" or 2, because we have to get 4---I'd love 2 back and 2 frontcourts, as long as they're quality. The frontcourts don't need to be very big, but we will need 2 bigs (and 2 guards) in '13 with my scenario, because we lose 6'4" and 6'5" in '14. Now, in my book Diamond will work as a big or whatever she wants to be. I'd also love Jessica Jackson. At 6'3", she can play 3,4, or 5 in a push.

Enough about a school y'all don't care about. Again, sorry for the rambling. Hell, I'm from the South, and we like to talk

Y'all have a great day...Geaux Saints!!!

 

[Tonyc]

How bad is Pats disease? Well she came out with it now which tells me its already had an effect on her performance. Can you imagine being a recruit and talking to her and the disease has one of its moments and she forgets who you are? I know this disease, it runs through my family. My grandmother, mother and father all had it. It came on the first year slowly and then settled in in its second year. Doctors told us my parents would live 7-8 years. He was right.

Gettng back to TN. Does TN has a roster of great players? Yes Have they performed great over the past few years? IMO NO. Theyve underperfromed. Will that change this season? I dont think so. With all the distractions going on at TN I find it hard that TN can perform at the highest level. Distractions being Pats condition, no new coach in the wings, and players leaving. A new coach, needs to come in and rebuild the program. Transfers tell me that these kids know something that is not public knowledge. I dont want to hear they were injured or any other excuses because there are just to many of them leaving the program. Your not talking about one player. Your talking about quite a few who were not sitting at the end of the bench. They were all top recruits who are leaving.

What TN has to do is bring in a new coach who will work by Pats and her assitants side this season. It must be this season because there are 9 schollies available at the end of this season, and the new coach can build and develop her own team, as well as acclimate the TN family to the transition. The new coach will need to be accepted. Now with that said its kinda late to find someone to step in now. So I guess TN will be looking to bring someone in next season. The downfall is is two fold. If Pat had told TN this last season then someone couldve been brought in this season. Next season Pats condition will only worsen. Second the 9 schollies or most of them will be used up this recruiting class not allowing the incoming coach to choose who he/she wants. Kids considering TN now, may go elsewhere because they dont know who their coach will, Pat is not stable, and with all the kids who have transferred you have to wonder. A new coach with a new direction would give TN a fresh start. So it looks like next season TN will have someone new sitting on the sidelines with Pat. The coach will have to be able to rebuild the program, and the program will have to take on a new identity. I guess we will wait and see.