Same old Notre Dame

[billybud]

What's worse? Notre Dame always getting stuff they don't deserve or Golden Domers who insist they don't.

Oh we love to hate the Irish...a national pastime.

They have a 100 plus year old tradition, Rockne and the Gipper, the four Horsemen, Paul Hornung, Joe Montana, Theisman...they were football giants in football's leather helmet days...Johnny Lujack won the Heisman and led Notre Dame to an undefeated NC in the year my college first fielded a footbal team.

They are the Royals...and the rest of us untitled commoners who curtsy by the wayside...

But..the Irish are being threatened...Alabama has been rapidly moving up the hate index.

 

[uconndogs]

You can watch very close entertaining G5 football games if that is what you want...Memphis-SMU (3 point game)..

Memphis-UCF (1 point game).....Memphis-USF (1 point game)....Memphis-Houston (3 point game)...Memphis-Navy (3 point game)....

But it isn't for me...

The question for college football is whether that G5 fanbase and the fanbases of the many P5 programs that are uncompetitive lose their allegiance to college football. Do they perceive that the deck is so heavily stacked against their program that they feel disconnected? If that happens then the tide goes out for everyone. My sense is that the enormous economic success of college football is leading to some short sighted views. Happens a lot in business.

That college football has its roots in nonprofit educational institutions which supposedly have values around learning, ethics, values and fair play is certainly ironic. I think that's been so debunked that it's fair to say the average fan doesn't care about it. In fact, I think the booster from an SEC school handing over an envelope is pretty much an accepted practice. I find that pretty sad, but it is what it is.

 

[billybud]

I don't think that fans lose their allegiance...GT, Wake, Duke will never be competitive on a national title basis...yet their fans watch football and not just GT games.

Will I stop watching women's basketball because of the elites? Maybe at tournament time.. After all, UConn and Notre Dame have been, collectively in 12 of the last 11 Final games.

 

[billybud]

The question for college football is whether that G5 fanbase and the fanbases of the many P5 programs that are uncompetitive lose their allegiance to college football. Do they perceive that the deck is so heavily stacked against their program that they feel disconnected? If that happens then the tide goes out for everyone. My sense is that the enormous economic success of college football is leading to some short sighted views. Happens a lot in business.

That college football has its roots in nonprofit educational institutions which supposedly have values around learning, ethics, values and fair play is certainly ironic. I think that's been so debunked that it's fair to say the average fan doesn't care about it. In fact, I think the booster from an SEC school handing over an envelope is pretty much an accepted practice. I find that pretty sad, but it is what it is.

And here's the rub....the difference between a college football fan...and a fan who is supremely tied to their particular team.

I watch Bama, I watch Oklahoma, and Ohio State..not just ACC teams...and, according to the viewing numbers, there are millions like me. We watch great match ups....

 

[billybud]

I love the pageantry....the War Eagle, Flaming Spear, Sooner Schooner, dotting the i, Howard's Rock, the Chomp, Sooooie Pig...

Great rivalries to tune into...Ohio State-Michigan, FSU-Florida, Georgia-Florida, Alabama-LSU..and on..

Unabashedly, I am a college football fan...

 

[uconndogs]

And here's the rub....the difference between a college football fan...and a fan who is supremely tied to their particular team.

I watch Bama, I watch Oklahoma, and Ohio State..not just ACC teams...and, according to the viewing numbers, there are millions like me. We watch great match ups....

Yes, you identify with a program and conference that are both competitive at the upper echelons of college football.

My point is, what of the eyeballs that don't identify as you do? The University of Memphis fan, the Washington State fan, etc. Those fans may be very connected to their individual programs, but do they identify with college football at a national level? At what point might that segment of the market say.....eh, it's Bama and Florida State and Ohio State again.......nothing to do with my interests.

There's a market, a big market, that does not readily connect to the P5 and some of the elite programs within.

 

[billybud]

All of those three million plus viewers per game who watch the top 6-14 games every week are not fans of the schools playing.

People vote with their eyeball...and they like to watch top teams. The LSU's, Notre Dame's, Clemson's etc.

Clemson is a smalliish school of 21,500...but 4.38 million watched BC-Clemson...and 3.46 million watched Clemson-Wake...neither a particularly attractive game.

And that big market of which you speak...where are the eyeballs? Hundreds of non P5 match ups are televised...nobody watches them.

UCF-ECU on ABC did not draw a million while UCF-GT drew 3.0 million on ABC.

 

[uconndogs]

Billy, business has very little to do about what just happened and much more to do about the future. You might be right and the market for college football will continue to hold and grow. I’m not so sure......

 

[billybud]

The FCS Playoffs....who watches? Who knows the Final Four?

I didn't know that Weber State and Montana State were in the Final Four....and there must be a lot of FCS followers...with 127 teams.

The FCS Championship match did draw 2.86 million The largest audience ever for an FCS match up. And it would not have cracked the top ten in viewership in many, if not most weeks.

Sure, who knows the future...but I would not bet against the current dynamics of hierarchy...Not in the next several decades.

 

[UCFBfan]

Well, I don't have a lot of interest in the NFL....haven't watched a game.

Folks still love to watch college ball in this region....last week...

Week 16 (8 games with over a million watchers)

ND-Clemson....9.92 million
Bama-UF..........8.92
OSU-Nwst........8.03

Week 15 (11 games with over a million viewers...4 with over 3 million)

Army-Navy........4.91 million
LSU-UF..............4.62
UNC-Miami.......3.33

Week 14....(14 games with over a million viewers...5 games over 3 million)
Week 13....(14 games over a million...6 games over 3 million)

etc

"Folks still love to watch college ball in this region....last week..."

This is the bottom line. CFB is engrained in pockets of this country and always will be. The South will always watch CFB no matter what their teams chances are. It's not a coincidence that they are the schools who are most likely to be in the Playoffs. Texas also falls into this category but football at levels is king in that state.

I think that the elitism of CFB will alienate 3/4 of the country but it will still find strength in parts of the country where it has always been strong. This won't happen overnight but it's going to rapidly increase as the CFB playoff continues to be this sham that includes the same 3 teams every year. Alumni's allegiance to their school will wane over time, especially at schools where football was not a dominate, long standing sport. UConn is a prime example of this.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Oh we love to hate the Irish...a national pastime.

They have a 100 plus year old tradition, Rockne and the Gipper, the four Horsemen, Paul Hornung, Joe Montana, Theisman...they were football giants in football's leather helmet days...Johnny Lujack won the Heisman and led Notre Dame to an undefeated NC in the year my college first fielded a footbal team.

They are the Royals...and the rest of us untitled commoners who curtsy by the wayside...

But..the Irish are being threatened...Alabama has been rapidly moving up the hate index.

Agreed - other than selling magazines and getting TV ratings with people over 50, they are worthless. At least Alabama backs it up on the field every year.

Heck, even we beat Notre Dame on their own field and now they refuse to play us, lol.

 

[BlueDogs]

But if a good Cincinnati team beats or plays within 7 of a upper tier SEC team...that would do them good.

Georgia was only beaten by Bama ( by only 17 points), by Florida (16 points)....so a top tier SEC team.

Cincy matches up against any B1G. Putting them against Georgia plays into the scam. Georgia is playing well but they are the 3rd ranked team in the SEC, and they are hoping Georgia stomps them. It’s a lose a lose for Cincy - win and they are dismissed because it was the 3rd best SEC team. Lose its even worse. Reminds me of when UCF bested Auburn. It was automatically dismissed as not a true test for a 100 reasons...

 

[billybud]

Georgia is the 4th in the SEC...behind Alabama, A&M, and Florida.

If Cincinnati loses, folks will say..."well, they might have been a middle SEC team this year"..

Scam?

Well. cry me a river. If you want to be seen as a CFP potential team that can beat Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State...you'd better beat a Georgia. If not..it is just more bleating "We belong" ...before tripping on the challenge.

As UCF did in 2018...crying they belonged and then losing in a bowl to LSU...whose SEC conference
W-L record was equaled or exceeded by five other SEC teams.

The final look is...Georgia, #4 in the SEC, is favored over undefeated Cincinnati by 7.

Cincinnati needs to prove that they belong...in 2009, an undefeated Bearcat team went to the Sugar Bowl and was beaten by 27 by the Gators....

 

[TerryD]

Agreed - other than selling magazines and getting TV ratings with people over 50, they are worthless. At least Alabama backs it up on the field every year.

Heck, even we beat Notre Dame on their own field and now they refuse to play us, lol.

Interesting take.

ND has gone 43-8 the past four years, with two playoff berths. It has won 10 or more games 5 of the last 6 seasons.

It went 10-1 this year, its first/only one in the ACC and made the championship game and the playoffs, but are "worthless".

What does that make all of the schools (maybe 125 FBS schools?) who have not done as well the past four years? Less than worthless?

 

[billybud]

Terry...

This is a football board...we are not logical...we are emotional....and that is emotion talking, not the head thinking.

 

[Hogoff]

Georgia is the 4th in the SEC...behind Alabama, A&M, and Florida.

If Cincinnati loses, folks will say..."well, they might have been a middle SEC team this year"..

Scam?

Well. cry me a river. If you want to be seen as a CFP potential that can beat Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State...you'd better beat a Georgia. If not..it is just more bleating "We belong" ...before tripping on the challenge.

As UCF did in 2018...crying they belonged and then losing in a bowl to LSU...whose SEC conference
W-L record was equaled or exceeded by five other SEC teams.

The final look is...Georgia, #4 in the SEC, is favored over undefeated Cincinnati by 7.

Yet this is a Notre Dame thread. No one trips on the challenge more then Notre Dame, and here they are.

 

[billybud]

Bama favored by 20 over the Domers....That's a huge number for a playoff game.

The Irish fan coffers must be emptying.

 

[kingdobbs]

Georgia is the 4th in the SEC...behind Alabama, A&M, and Florida.

If Cincinnati loses, folks will say..."well, they might have been a middle SEC team this year"..

Scam?

Well. cry me a river. If you want to be seen as a CFP potential that can beat Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State...you'd better beat a Georgia. If not..it is just more bleating "We belong" ...before tripping on the challenge.

As UCF did in 2018...crying they belonged and then losing in a bowl to LSU...whose SEC conference
W-L record was equaled or exceeded by five other SEC teams.

The final look is...Georgia, #4 in the SEC, is favored over undefeated Cincinnati by 7.

No, the scam is that teams like Cincinnati and UCF get told on a consistent basis that there’s a path they can follow to get a chance at that challenge.

 

[Adios]

Society changes. Remember when the Ivies dominated? I don't. If some dude wants to plop down a billion on UConn football, the program would instantly be even more relevant. It is even possible that the Memphis Tigers can win a title one day in football. Cryonics won't bring back Fred Smith, though. If this country breaks down and things change, so will the sporting landscape. There's even talk of shameless open human hunting in the future amongst academia.

 

[billybud]

No, the scam is that teams like Cincinnati and UCF get told on a consistent basis that there’s a path they can follow to get a chance at that challenge.

There is...the same path that Arkansas, Vanderbilt, UCLA, etc. have....

Georgia isn't playing for it either...

Beat a team or two that is in the CFP top 15. Schedule a couple of top teams...might be two for one (as UCF turned down to play with Florida).

But putting a team into the CFP that hasn't beaten a good team, for "social equity reasons'" is like eating food that you don’t like just because it’s sitting in your fridge and getting ready to go bad. Don’t do it.

 

[billybud]

If having a great rcord, regardless of who you play, is the criteria for inclusion...

What separates 9-0 Cincinnati from
...11-1 CoastalCarolina
...10-1 Liberty
...11-1 BYU

or 10-1 Notre Dame or 10-1 Notre Dame?

 

[kingdobbs]

If having a great rcord, regardless of who you play, is the criteria for inclusion...

What separates 9-0 Cincinnati from
...11-1 CoastalCarolina
...10-1 Liberty
...11-1 BYU

or 10-1 Notre Dame or 10-1 Notre Dame?

Impossible to discern. There is too much insularity in scheduling and too few connections between conferences, especially with Power 5 conferences pushing on their teams to play mostly, if not all, power 5 or equivalent opponents in out of league play, to draw meaningful comparisons. Out of league games that do happen get scheduled so far in advance that you can’t guarantee that the Texas team you scheduled back in 2014 is going to be like the Vince Young Longhorns or the ones they have now.

There is...the same path that Arkansas, Vanderbilt, UCLA, etc. have....

Georgia isn't playing for it either...

Beat a team or two that is in the CFP top 15. Schedule a couple of top teams...might be two for one (as UCF turned down to play with Florida).

But putting a team into the CFP that hasn't beaten a good team, for "social equity reasons'" is like eating food that you don’t like just because it’s sitting in your fridge and getting ready to go bad. Don’t do it.

Except it’s not.

Arkansas or Vanderbilt goes 12-0, there’s no argument there’s a spot for them, unless it’s one of those seasons where there’s an undefeated team in every P5 conference. They “beat the SEC”.

Cincy or Boise goes 12-0, and the first question off everyone’s lips is “who did they play?”

Because it’s impossible for a team like Cincy to get more than 3 teams against top tier opponents. But the standard they are held to is “oh just schedule better, the SEC does it all the time”, when “schedule better” also means “schedule SEC teams”.

This is not my argument for “social equity spots”, this is my argument for an expanded playoff that gives more teams a bite at the apple.

And also my argument for blowing up the whole systems, abolishing conferences and establishing a more equitable and nationalized scheduling system that will actually create statistically meaningful rankings. But that’s more of a long term goal. An expanded playoff might actually happen some day.

 

[billybud]

The alternative is...Win some respect by showing up when you do bowl a good p5 team.

Undefeated Cincinnati getting waxed by Florida in the Sugar sets a tone....undefeated UCF didn't beat LSU...beat 'em first, build credibility.

The 11-1 Bearcats went to play 6-6 VT in the 2018 bowl...they won by 4...not convincing.

The 9-3 Bearcats played 6-6 VT in the bowl in 2014...lost 17-33.

A winning schedule doesn't necessarily translate to a public conciousness of strength...

 

[Husky68]

No G5 teams recruits well enough to be a top 4 team. Not saying they can't beat a top 4 team, but it would be an upset.
Recruiting matters. CBSSports has top 25 recruiting class averages for 2016-2020. Alabama 1, Ohio State 3 and Clemson 5. Throw in Georgia at 2 and LSU at 5 and have lot of annual competitors for playoffs.
Surprising Texas at 7 and Michigan at 8 don't have better records.
Notre Dame seems to outperform their 14 ranking (at least this year).
No G5 team is in the top 25.

 

[uchusky32]

They are going to lose to Bama by more than 20 points.