Rumor- UCONN Pursuing ACC Membership?

[Kolumbo]

I'm tired of this sheet so I am making the decisions. ACC members will all make like Fleetwood Mac and go their own way and dissolve the conference. A very solid football conference and it's not like anyone else is winning a championship anyway. And hoops, forgetaboutit!

The result: 20 member $$ conference with 10 basketball and 10 all in. maybe add in Army and Navy for football only. who's with me.

1	PC	UCONN
2	SJU	Cuse
3	SHU	BCU
4	Nova	Pitt
5	Georgetown	VaTech
6	DePaul	NC State
7	Marquette	Duke
8	Butler	Wake
9	Xavier	GaTech
10	Creighton	Louisville

 

[noeynox]

if the ACC offered UConn 20 mill year, and splits the rest of what would be UConn's full payout between Clemson and FSU would UConn fans be happy? Would the other ACC schools say hell no?

 

[WestHartHusk]

if the ACC offered UConn 20 mill year, and splits the rest of what would be UConn's full payout between Clemson and FSU would UConn fans be happy? Would the other ACC schools say hell no?

Honestly, I've been thinking the only real solution to the ACC's problems for the next few years is expansion, with the incremental amounts being shared unequally among the new member, FSU and Clemson. Seems a tough sell for the balance of the league, but it at least preserves what they have.

 

[noeynox]

Honestly, I've been thinking the only real solution to the ACC's problems for the next few years is expansion, with the incremental amounts being shared unequally among the new member, FSU and Clemson. Seems a tough sell for the balance of the league, but it at least preserves what they have.

Then perhaps 2 members with FSU and Clemson splitting half of one new members full share and the rest of the league splitting half of othe other ones. But 13 years is LONG TIME, for the new schools to commit to such a thing but who is the other member?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Well, on this he’s right as this is what I’ve said all along. Is a GOR in this context specifically enforceable? Meaning that the ACC and ESPN could keep showing FSU homes games if it leaves for the Big Ten? Maybe, and maybe not. The existence of the GOR severely ratchets up the risk to an FSU of leaving. But, if it leaves, the ACC is far from certain it can keep showing the games (although it should be able to obtain damages for the loss of the games).

For example, OU and Texas each paid $50m to the Big XII to get out one year early. So people thinking FSU or Clemson are getting out 12 years early? Yeah, good luck with that. The point people miss is that the risk belongs to the networks not the conference. They may be unable to broadcast games. They aren't taking that risk.

Meanwhile, I've seen no evidence that the SEC wants Clemson or FSU. It could have snatched either one of them up at any time in the last 30 years. Sure Clemson is a hot brand now, but if the money weighs on them South Carolina could pass them. Florida State hadn't even been good recently. The B1G wouldn't even consider those two when Washington and Oregon are available. UVA and UNC would appeal.

I don't think it's unreasonable that the ACC adds UConn now that Notre Dame is playing more games in conference and its ability to schedule has been hurt by expansion. It's not getting UCLA and USC regularly anymore. B1G is going to play very few OOC games.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Do you think that UVA and UNC are more valuable in commanding a bigger fee rights wise than FSU and Clemson?

I don't think the B1G would touch FSU or Clemson with a ten foot pole. The B1G would consider UNC and UVA. The SEC might consider all four, but has repeatedly rejected FSU and Clemson who wanted to join for decades. It took Missouri over them for example.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The only way the ACC considers taking UCONN now is because they believe there are pending departures and UCONN provides the best value to fill vacancies. I have to believe that some of the programs in the ACC are losing their collective minds watching what's going on with the SEC and BiG, but if the GOR has them unequivocally locked in, then no one is leaving and UCONN isn't getting in.

my two cents......

That’s not the only way
The other is if they believe the B12 is interested in you .
It’s similar to girls / women
Your prospects might seem dismal with no one interested in you .but as soon as one shows an interest they seem to come from places you never expected
Bad Metaphors aside I don’t believe the ACC wants another conference in what they consider their area . Creating dissonance is a tried and true way to achieve the outcome you want .

 

[CL82]

if the ACC offered UConn 20 mill year, and splits the rest of what would be UConn's full payout between Clemson and FSU would UConn fans be happy? Would the other ACC schools say hell no?

Isn’t it up to ESPN as to what they will spend? Wouldn’t it be cheaper for them just to do side deals of 8500 a piece to Clemson FSU?

 

[noeynox]

Isn’t it up to ESPN as to what they will spend? Wouldn’t it be cheaper for them just to do side deals of 8500 a piece to Clemson FSU?

Why pay them more just because? If you add teams at least you have more content.

 

[CL82]

Why pay them more just because? If you add teams at least you have more content.

Because that additional content would cost you $20 million. If ESPN wanted our content, it was there for the taking it any time. If the goal of adding Connecticut is to stabilize the ACC by giving more money to Clemson and FSU, isn’t it more efficient just to create side deals for them?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Because that additional content would cost you $20 million. If ESPN wanted our content, it was there for the taking it any time. If the goal of adding Connecticut is to stabilize the ACC by giving more money to Clemson and FSU, isn’t it more efficient just to create side deals for them?

Not if they can make incremental revenue off of showing UConn games. It's about growing the pie - not just adjusting the same pie in varying portions.

 

[CL82]

Not if they can make incremental revenue off of showing UConn games. It's about growing the pie - not just adjusting the same pie in varying portions.

Is UConn’s content worth $20 million? I’d like to think so, but no one’s offering it to us yet.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Well, on this he’s right as this is what I’ve said all along. Is a GOR in this context specifically enforceable? Meaning that the ACC and ESPN could keep showing FSU homes games if it leaves for the Big Ten? Maybe, and maybe not. The existence of the GOR severely ratchets up the risk to an FSU of leaving. But, if it leaves, the ACC is far from certain it can keep showing the games (although it should be able to obtain damages for the loss of the games).

There are a few things to unpack here and most lead to the conclusion that an enormous risk will be undertaken if a school attempts to leave a conference without reaching agreement on departure terms, or if a conference adds a school that didn’t come to agreement on departure terms from its previous home.

• The closest analogy that I have seen on enforceability of GOR was something written a couple years back on one of these boards comparing it to publishing rights for music. If there is a clear parallel, major problems could arise if a school attempts to depart the ACC and say “try to enforce the GOR”. One clear example that I know of is the song Bittersweet Symphony by the Verve. Anyone who isn’t aware of what happened there, a quick google search will provide the answer.
• I imagine if for example FSU or Clemson left for the SEC (or B1G) without coming to a departure agreement, the ACC would immediately file injunctions in every applicable jurisdiction. If the successor conference allowed games to be played, they could be on the hook for damages (beyond the damages that the departed school would need to deal with). I don’t see how either conference would take that risk.
• The schools in question and the conferences in question are looking at this as a business. Businesses do not like leaving things for the courts to decide when it comes to arguments that value a fraction of what this could value. I don’t see anyone being willing to sit through dragged out court hearings (which could mean years of broadcasts that it hasn’t been determined who has the rights to) and the knowledge that there could be a few hundred million dollar gap between what was expected (or hoped for) and what was decided. Again, risk mitigation would lead the way.
• While backroom agreements happen regularly (and charges are seldom brought) between conferences and schools that they may consider adding as members, this would be an entirely different level, especially if terms of departure are still in question. A school departing the ACC, which would require paying the departure fee and dealing on some level with the GOR would likely need more assurances than (financial and otherwise) than for example Texas or UCLA departing their current homes for the SEC and B1G respectively. Logically no school is going to clear itself from ACC obligations only to hope to find a landing spot that makes the cost of departure worth the end result. I imagine that it would be somewhat easier for the ACC to allege damages if the SEC or B1G are willing to accept membership from a school accepting a new member who is not fully freed from its prior conference. The departing school may be required to spend time ín the wilderness prior to joining its new conference to prevent that conference from dealing with damages from the ACC.

While enforceability of the GOR if a school were to leave and say “sue me” may be an enormous unknown, the potential downside of this unknown is likely significant enough that the parties involved would finds it far more logical to reach a buyout and avoid the risk.

 

[noeynox]

Is UConn’s content worth $20 million? I’d like to think so, but no one’s offering it to us yet.

Yeah, because the going rate to a p5 is more than 20 million. If you look at the data compiled by some we are an outlier outside the P5. Especially now that BYU has been picked up. Houston and Cincinnati were pouring more institonal money into athletics than we were if I recall.

It's a spitball idea. The other schools don't have to give up some of their current money and they add some content across the board. Shut Clemson and especially FSU up. They could throw the women's team on the acc network to help that struggling entity.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Is UConn’s content worth $20 million? I’d like to think so, but no one’s offering it to us yet.

I'm not saying it is or isn't worth $20m. But I don't think it's out of the question if we were existing in a bona-fide conference and able to elevate football and leverage our strong basketball (especially the women's team as women's basketball may become more of a revenue driver nationally in the next handful of years). Let's hope.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Honestly, I've been thinking the only real solution to the ACC's problems for the next few years is expansion, with the incremental amounts being shared unequally among the new member, FSU and Clemson. Seems a tough sell for the balance of the league, but it at least preserves what they have.

Yup - that's my thinking too ^

 

[uconntailgater]

I'm tired of this sheet so I am making the decisions. ACC members will all make like Fleetwood Mac and go their own way and dissolve the conference. A very solid football conference and it's not like anyone else is winning a championship anyway. And hoops, forgetaboutit!

The result: 20 member $$ conference with 10 basketball and 10 all in. maybe add in Army and Navy for football only. who's with me.

1	PC	UCONN
2	SJU	Cuse
3	SHU	BCU
4	Nova	Pitt
5	Georgetown	VaTech
6	DePaul	NC State
7	Marquette	Duke
8	Butler	Wake
9	Xavier	GaTech
10	Creighton	Louisville

I would remove Creighton from this list as they are the outlier. Invite Temple and have Villanova upgrade their football program and this would be a nice little conference.

 

[Sole]

I would remove Creighton from this list as they are the outlier. Invite Temple and have Villanova upgrade their football program and this would be a nice little conference.

Creighton does well with tv ratings…probably 3rd best behind Uconn and Villanova… i think they also lead the big east in attendance

 

[Kolumbo]

I would remove Creighton from this list as they are the outlier. Invite Temple and have Villanova upgrade their football program and this would be a nice little conference.

I had Temple but replaced it with Georgia Tech. Temple would have to be all in but that won't happen with Nova and you can't really kick anyone out.

I think in theory this is a great plan. We don't want to leave the Big East because it's fun basketball. Half the ACC is gonna be relegated in one fashion or another. No one will compete with the P2 in football and a football conference should only be about 10-12 programs anyway. This way the ACC programs have an east coast football conference and a better basketball conference. Everyone wins.

 

[Stinger92860]

I had Temple but replaced it with Georgia Tech. Temple would have to be all in but that won't happen with Nova and you can't really kick anyone out.

I think in theory this is a great plan. We don't want to leave the Big East because it's fun basketball. Half the ACC is gonna be relegated in one fashion or another. No one will compete with the P2 in football and a football conference should only be about 10-12 programs anyway. This way the ACC programs have an east coast football conference and a better basketball conference. Everyone wins.

It would be great if we could land in the P#3. I believe it’s between the ACC and B12. I would join either in a heartbeat. With Mora, more $, and being in one of these leagues we can get football over the hump. The occasional 8-9 win season with mostly 7-5 would be huge, and we have a knack of knocking it out in every sport, so it would be interesting.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Brand new this morning.

Inside the big-money battle that could decide the ACC's future

With ACC powers Florida State and Clemson making more noise about a revenue gap with the SEC and Big Ten, realignment rumors are running rampant despite a long-term TV deal.

www.espn.com

 

[UConn Dan]

Brand new this morning.

Inside the big-money battle that could decide the ACC's future

With ACC powers Florida State and Clemson making more noise about a revenue gap with the SEC and Big Ten, realignment rumors are running rampant despite a long-term TV deal.

www.espn.com

From the article:

Over the past two years, a number of schools have sent teams of lawyers to examine the official grant of rights document, either looking for a potential pathway out or assurances that the biggest brands can't leave without a serious fight.

As one administrator told ESPN, those reviews have established several potentially compelling arguments for breaking the agreement but have uncovered no obvious loophole that would provide a pathway out without engaging in protracted litigation.

"Is it worth the paper it's written on?" one AD said. "If one school starts to leave, then another, how strong is it? It would involve a major legal battle."

And as one athletic director pointed out, it would also require another conference to extend an invitation to join before knowing whether it would have rights to broadcast that team's games. It's a legal Catch-22.

 

[uconndogs]

Brand new this morning.

Inside the big-money battle that could decide the ACC's future

With ACC powers Florida State and Clemson making more noise about a revenue gap with the SEC and Big Ten, realignment rumors are running rampant despite a long-term TV deal.

www.espn.com

After reading that I am even more convinced that the whole thing is going to ~40 elite programs with revenues well above what is currently in play. Everyone else is drawing from a smaller pot. UCONN, Syracuse and BC will be back together in a conference. I don't think it will take the whole 13 years until the GOR expires. Once that gets closer folks will start cutting deals.

What a mess.......

 

[HuskyHawk]

From the article:

Over the past two years, a number of schools have sent teams of lawyers to examine the official grant of rights document, either looking for a potential pathway out or assurances that the biggest brands can't leave without a serious fight.

As one administrator told ESPN, those reviews have established several potentially compelling arguments for breaking the agreement but have uncovered no obvious loophole that would provide a pathway out without engaging in protracted litigation.

"Is it worth the paper it's written on?" one AD said. "If one school starts to leave, then another, how strong is it? It would involve a major legal battle."

And as one athletic director pointed out, it would also require another conference to extend an invitation to join before knowing whether it would have rights to broadcast that team's games. It's a legal Catch-22.

This is the point I made yesterday, and I think @businesslawyer was commenting along the same lines. Not only is it an unknown, but the risk isn't borne by the school or conference but by the broadcast partner. Is it a risk they want to take? I doubt it. We saw that with OU and UT, they had to buy their last year of rights back.

Now, if ESPN has the rights in both cases, can it work? Sure, but would ESPN want to pay more for rights it already has? This is the challenge really.

 

[jostar1]

Brand new this morning.

Inside the big-money battle that could decide the ACC's future

With ACC powers Florida State and Clemson making more noise about a revenue gap with the SEC and Big Ten, realignment rumors are running rampant despite a long-term TV deal.

www.espn.com

From that article:

The revenue distribution changes could open the door to expansion, too -- allowing the ACC to potentially pay newer members a smaller share of the total -- but those talks have largely fallen flat, according to multiple sources. While the league has run numbers on what several potential expansion options might add to the pie, none looked like a financial bonanza, and several ADs were reluctant to see the league grow amidst so much turmoil both inside and outside the ACC.

"We continually evaluate all options that can further strengthen our conference, including adding new members," Phillips said. "We've always looked at opportunities to expand when it's made sense."

 

[CL82]

This is the money paragraph:

"At the end of the day, we need to try. And if, if we can't get things done, then, at least we can look around and say, 'All right, we attempted to get something done, we weren't able to do it,'" Radakovich said. "And then, if down the road, schools do choose to leave, it should not be a surprise."

Essentially, the other schools are going to get a chance to subsidize the heavy hitters in the hopes that that might placate them. The problem is that the ACC isn’t flush with cash so there really isn’t enough cushion to reallocate the existing distributions. The commissioner is going through the motions and giving people the option to choose to do that if they want, but he recognizes that’s unlikely and what the consequence of that will be as 2036 approaches .

 

[uconntailgater]

I would remove Creighton from this list as they are the outlier. Invite Temple and have Villanova upgrade their football program and this would be a nice little conference.

I know Villanova wouldn't be happy with Temple being added. I would also add USF to keep a Florida pipeline open.

 

[Kolumbo]

It seems to me and I am probably wrong because I don't get any of it, but if the B1G and SEC are really able to pay as much as they say, then the ACC should be able to pay more. That is the gripe. Not uneven revenue, but more revenue for all. So the members should demand more from the ACC. If the ACC refuses to be competitive with the other conferences, the members vote to dissolve. They then regroup to form a new Atlantic Coast based conference and they should be able to get more cash. Problem solved. Right?

 

[Fishy]

I am in the camp that thinks nothing is happening at this moment, at least in terms of UConn.

I am certain that the PAC is talking to some G5 schools and I am certain that the Big 12 is talking to some PAC schools. If the PAC gets $30M and linear television for their rights, everything quiets right down again. If they get $20M and you have to have Apple+ to watch them, there will be mayhem this summer.

 

[Fishy]

It seems to me and I am probably wrong because I don't get any of it, but if the B1G and SEC are really able to pay as much as they say, then the ACC should be able to pay more. That is the gripe. Not uneven revenue, but more revenue for all. So the members should demand more from the ACC. If the ACC refuses to be competitive with the other conferences, the members vote to dissolve. They then regroup to form a new Atlantic Coast based conference and they should be able to get more cash. Problem solved. Right?

Your first sentence nailed it.

The ACC can only offer members what it can offer - they have a TV deal that binds everyone hard to the conference and the deal is not up for review or renewal for 13 years.

First, even if they magically could dissolve and reform to renegotiate their contract, (they can’t), half the conference would instantly look to jump to the Big Ten or the SEC. If any of them were successful, the remaining members would be in the same boat as the PAC12.