Rumor---NBC will pay $20-24 million per year to ND (contract renewal)

[whaler11]

I didn't say they weren't decent. And, I wrote that Memphis can be Pittsburgh. Why are you substituting Houston? Is Memphis too good for the comparison?

Can they be as good at basketball as Pittsburgh? They probably are now. Assuming they can continue to admit players who have others take their SATs they will probably continue to be good Will they ever have a rivalry with UConn like Pitt does? Highly unlikely.

 

[UConnDan97]

Assuming they can continue to admit players who have others take their SATs they will probably continue to be good.

Link?

 

[whaler11]

Link?

You need a link to Derrick Rose's SAT story? Memphis vacated an entire season over it.

 

[UConnDan97]

You need a link to Derrick Rose's SAT story? Memphis vacated an entire season over it.

you are referring to 2008??? You don't think that Calipari had anything at all to do with that?!? So I guess in your opinion, the UConn basketball team deserves their punishment this year for the APR scores of 08-09, huh? Are you going to tell me about SMU's death penalty too, so that you can keep going with your NBE argument? It's 2012. Let's talk about the teams now, shall we?

 

[whaler11]

you are referring to 2008??? You don't think that Calipari had anything at all to do with that?!? So I guess in your opinion, the UConn basketball team deserves their punishment this year for the APR scores of 08-09, huh? Are you going to tell me about SMU's death penalty too, so that you can keep going with your NBE argument? It's 2012. Let's talk about the teams now, shall we?

Oh so 2008 doesn't align with a successful period for them. If you are building a case for Memphis being as good as Pitt - they went to the Elite Eight in 06, 07, 08 - one last Sweet Sixteen in 09 and have done nothing of note since.

So when Memphis was most successful it was when Calipari was up to his tricks - but they are going to replace Pitt even though their most successful season was vacated for cheating.

They didn't win before Cal and they haven't been good since. Cal didn't even win playing it straight up. But Memphis is going to win cleanly going forward - what is that based on other than hope?

 

[UConnDan97]

Oh so 2008 doesn't align with a successful period for them. If you are building a case for Memphis being as good as Pitt - they went to the Elite Eight in 06, 07, 08 - one last Sweet Sixteen in 09 and have done nothing of note since.

So when Memphis was most successful it was when Calipari was up to his tricks - but they are going to replace Pitt even though their most successful season was vacated for cheating.

They didn't win before Cal and they haven't been good since. Cal didn't even win playing it straight up. But Memphis is going to win cleanly going forward - what is that based on other than hope?

This is why I cannot take you seriously most times, and I'm guessing that others can't either. Here is Memphis' record under Josh Pastner:

2009-2010: 24-10 (NIT)
2010-2011: 25-10 (NCAA Tourney)
2011-2012: 26-9 (NCAA Tourney)
Overall winning percentage as Memphis HC: .721

That's "what it's based on"....not "hope." Do you just like to argue for argument's sake? C'mon, man!

 

[whaler11]

This is why I cannot take you seriously most times, and I'm guessing that others can't either. Here is Memphis' record under Josh Pastner:

2009-2010: 24-10 (NIT)
2010-2011: 25-10 (NCAA Tourney)
2011-2012: 26-9 (NCAA Tourney)
Overall winning percentage as Memphis HC: .721

That's "what it's based on"....not "hope." Do you just like to argue for argument's sake? C'mon, man!

Yes the raw record looks, but its CUSA and 26-8 got them an 8-9 game they lost to an A-10 team.

It's a step up in class every night - it's a whole different level over the course of a season. You don't get Rice and East Carolina anymore.

 

[Dann]

Memphis bball is bsu fball. Both will be great for the nbe.

 

[UCFBfan]

Yes the raw record looks, but its CUSA and 26-8 got them an 8-9 game they lost to an A-10 team.

It's a step up in class every night - it's a whole different level over the course of a season. You don't get Rice and East Carolina anymore.

For once I gotta go with whaler on this one. I think Memphis and Temple have a good foundation with fans and program because of past success but they're going to need to step up their game to compete in the Big East. Not saying it can't happen but it's hard to compare past success in a lesser basketball conference to how they might do in the Big East. Last year's tournament showing doesn't bode well for them. In 2011 they were a 12 seed and lost to Arizona. While Arizona was nasty that year, we beat them in the Elite 8, it's still an example of them not doing well against better competition.

If you look at Memphis last season they beat only Tennessee twice (one was in double OT) and Miami. They lost to Michigan, Georgetown twice, Louisville, and Murray State. There's not a quality win on the schedule. Now remove Rice, Tulane, ECU, Tulsa and replace them with Marquette, UConn, Cincinnati, and Villanova and I must say that it's not gonna be easy for them.

Not saying they can't get there soon, just that it's not going to be as simple as jumping in and being an elite program like Pitt has been every season except last season for the past 10 years or so.

 

[pj]

Sure, it won't be easy, but it'll be much easier to recruit to the Big East than to C-USA. They can step up. No reason to think they won't. People forget that UConn had to step up to the Big East.

 

[whaler11]

Memphis bball is bsu fball. Both will be great for the nbe.

Boy you done lost your mind.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Memphis bball is bsu fball. Both will be great for the nbe.

not even close

 

[whaler11]

This is why I cannot take you seriously most times, and I'm guessing that others can't either. Here is Memphis' record under Josh Pastner:

2009-2010: 24-10 (NIT)
2010-2011: 25-10 (NCAA Tourney)
2011-2012: 26-9 (NCAA Tourney)
Overall winning percentage as Memphis HC: .721

That's "what it's based on"....not "hope." Do you just like to argue for argument's sake? C'mon, man!

If people can't take me 'seriously' because I don't think Memphis is a better conference partner than Pittsburgh.... it's hardly an argument for arguments sake - every neutral party would agree.

If Memphis had the same academic requirements to enroll players that most of the current Big East has - they wouldn't win like they have the last decade.

 

[UConnDan97]

If people can't take me 'seriously' because I don't think Memphis is a better conference partner than Pittsburgh.... it's hardly an argument for arguments sake - every neutral party would agree.

If Memphis had the same academic requirements to enroll players that most of the current Big East has - they wouldn't win like they have the last decade.

It wasn't about Memphis being a "better conference partner than Pittsburgh!" Upstater had said that there is no reason Memphis couldn't be as good as Pitt. That is what you were arguing against (and apparently continuing to argue against). And if you want to talk 8-9 games in the NCAA tourney, please tell me the last time that Pitt did anything in the NCAA tournament?

I'm not going to argue that C-USA bball is anywhere near the Big East, because it's not. Not by a long-shot, because Big East basketball is the best in the land. But last year, three of their losses were to the Big East (2x versus GTown [one in OT] and 1x to L'Ville) and they racked up wins against Tennessee twice (a team that beat us), UCF twice (a team that beat us), Xavier, and Miami.

This is a very good team, plain and simple. To say anything else is ridiculous, especially to say that they can only win if someone takes their SAT's for them.

 

[UConnDan97]

For once I gotta go with whaler on this one. I think Memphis and Temple have a good foundation with fans and program because of past success but they're going to need to step up their game to compete in the Big East. Not saying it can't happen but it's hard to compare past success in a lesser basketball conference to how they might do in the Big East. Last year's tournament showing doesn't bode well for them. In 2011 they were a 12 seed and lost to Arizona. While Arizona was nasty that year, we beat them in the Elite 8, it's still an example of them not doing well against better competition.

If you look at Memphis last season they beat only Tennessee twice (one was in double OT) and Miami. They lost to Michigan, Georgetown twice, Louisville, and Murray State. There's not a quality win on the schedule. Now remove Rice, Tulane, ECU, Tulsa and replace them with Marquette, UConn, Cincinnati, and Villanova and I must say that it's not gonna be easy for them.

Not saying they can't get there soon, just that it's not going to be as simple as jumping in and being an elite program like Pitt has been every season except last season for the past 10 years or so.

Let me address this point by point:

1) If their past year's tourney performance is what defines whether or not they are an elite team, then UConn is in trouble too. (which I don't believe, by the way)

2) If losing to Arizona in 2011 was a bad thing, the second best team in the tourney in my opinion (Kentucky third), then that is a ridiculous criteria. It took every ounce of our being to beat those guys (and a last-second shot to hit the rim).

3) Let's say I buy your argument about taking away 6 C-USA teams and replacing them with 6 elite teams from the Big East (an argument that I agree fully with, by the way), then their record assuming they lost every one of those games would have been 20-14.......just like UConn, with 2 lottery picks on our squad. Also keep in mind that three of their losses were already to elite BE teams, so they would have replaced those games with 3 cupcake OOC's (i.e., the Fairfields of the world...hint, hint).

4) The original argument was can Memphis be as good as Pitt, and I don't see any reason at all why they can't be, based on the fact that they have had success with multiple coaches and have made a basketball brand name for themselves that they can effectively recruit with.

That's all I'm saying, fellas. The fact that I believe Upstater was absolutely right, and that I have not yet seen any evidence that would suggest otherwise.

 

[whaler11]

It wasn't about Memphis being a "better conference partner than Pittsburgh!" Upstater had said that there is no reason Memphis couldn't be as good as Pitt. That is what you were arguing against (and apparently continuing to argue against). And if you want to talk 8-9 games in the NCAA tourney, please tell me the last time that Pitt did anything in the NCAA tournament?

I'm not going to argue that C-USA bball is anywhere near the Big East, because it's not. Not by a long-shot, because Big East basketball is the best in the land. But last year, three of their losses were to the Big East (2x versus GTown [one in OT] and 1x to L'Ville) and they racked up wins against Tennessee twice (a team that beat us), UCF twice (a team that beat us), Xavier, and Miami.

This is a very good team, plain and simple. To say anything else is ridiculous, especially to say that they can only win if someone takes their SAT's for them.

But again - you are betting on potential against someone who is already there. That's the point. Lots of schools have potential - potential is less valuable than certainty.

As for your SAT comment. What have they done without Cal? Much much less than with him - they have been to 22 tourneys and vacated 6 of those seasons. They have two good stretches in their history and both were marred with violations. It's another planet from the history of the Big East.

 

[Waquoit]

They have two good stretches in their history and both were marred with violations. It's another planet from the history of the Big East.

We are coming off probation, our head coach suspended for games and are banned from post-season play next year. Who are we to talk?

 

[UConnDan97]

We are coming off probation, our head coach suspended for games and are banned from post-season play next year. Who are we to talk?

+1. I guess that means we have a ways to go to be like Pitt. Holy Christ, some days, the Boneyard makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills. I describe how the new Memphis coach has been to two NCAA tourneys in the last three years and has well over a .700 winning percentage, and I have to hear about "What have they done without Cal?"

 

[whaler11]

+1. I guess that means we have a ways to go to be like Pitt. Holy Christ, some days, the Boneyard makes me feel like I'm on crazy pills. I describe how the new Memphis coach has been to two NCAA tourneys in the last three years and has well over a .700 winning percentage, and I have to hear about "What have they done without Cal?"

It's pretty simple. They fell off cliff compared to when he was there. Their league is so bad that Quinnipiac was ahead of half the teams in their league in the computers. But sure, winning percentage is a great measurement for a team in a league that according to the Sagarins is closer to the Patriot League than the Big East.

Memphis hasn't won an NCAA game since Cal left. If you think they are an equal replacement for Pitt.... Clearly we aren't going to agree.

Maybe I'm stupid to respect what Pitt basketball has brought to the league - they have won a hell of a lot of games in the best league in the country for a long time with multiple coaches. I guess they can be easily replaced with teams from the 10th best league in the country. Sure, Houston and SMU were 50 teams worse than Quinnipiac in the Pomeroys this year, but now I guess they are going to try.

 

[UConnDan97]

It's pretty simple. They fell off cliff compared to when he was there. Their league is so bad that Quinnipiac was ahead of half the teams in their league in the computers. But sure, winning percentage is a great measurement for a team in a league that according to the Sagarins is closer to the Patriot League than the Big East.

Memphis hasn't won an NCAA game since Cal left. If you think they are an equal replacement for Pitt.... Clearly we aren't going to agree.

Maybe I'm stupid to respect what Pitt basketball has brought to the league - they have won a hell of a lot of games in the best league in the country for a long time with multiple coaches. I guess they can be easily replaced with teams from the 10th best league in the country. Sure, Houston and SMU were 50 teams worse than Quinnipiac in the Pomeroys this year, but now I guess they are going to try.

Nobody is saying that Pitt didn't bring a heck of a lot to the league in basketball! Also, nobody is saying that Pitt isn't a better bball program than Memphis currently! (not Upstater, and not me!). What is being said is that Memphis has every opportunity to be as good as them; mostly because they continue to go to the tourney with multiple coaches.

If they fell off a cliff, it was a 1-ft high cliff, whereby they landed on another almost equally high cliff. Again, three of their losses last year were to Big East elite, and if they were to be in the league, they would replace those three games with three OOC cupcakes, just like we do. They would also have a good chance of beating DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, USF, and maybe even St. John's. It's ridiculous to think that they "fell off a cliff". If you have fallen off of a cliff, you are not in the NCAA tourney and in the national discussion, period!!

You are right about one thing, though; we aren't going to agree...

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Seriously? You don't think that can be said about us?

Our rivalry with Pitt does exist and is not easily replaceable. The juice in the building when we have played Pitt in a big game is undeniable. (Well, at least outside of this board.)

I think Final Fours and National Championships provide a little more lasting reputation for a program than a bunch of regular season wins, so i guess we will have to disagree that Pitt's basketball program is equivalent to UConn's.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think Final Fours and National Championships provide a little more lasting reputation for a program than a bunch of regular season wins, so i guess we will have to disagree that Pitt's basketball program is equivalent to UConn's.

What is truly amazing is you can quote my post and then immediately below the quote respond to something not in it.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Nobody is saying that Pitt didn't bring a heck of a lot to the league in basketball! Also, nobody is saying that Pitt isn't a better bball program than Memphis currently! (not Upstater, and not me!). What is being said is that Memphis has every opportunity to be as good as them; mostly because they continue to go to the tourney with multiple coaches.

If they fell off a cliff, it was a 1-ft high cliff, whereby they landed on another almost equally high cliff. Again, three of their losses last year were to Big East elite, and if they were to be in the league, they would replace those three games with three OOC cupcakes, just like we do. They would also have a good chance of beating DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, USF, and maybe even St. John's. It's ridiculous to think that they "fell off a cliff". If you have fallen off of a cliff, you are not in the NCAA tourney and in the national discussion, period!!

You are right about one thing, though; we aren't going to agree...

Pitt is a solid program. Easily a top 5 program in the BE the past 10 years. On a national level they have underachieved. Still a solid program.
Memphis is probably just a drop behind but will easily catch up with the advantage of playing in the BE... It would be hard for any program not to have a drop off after Cal... Love him or hate him, he's a national figure that commands attention. Postner has Memphis on the right track. Could be another Louisville in 5 years...

 

[RS9999X]

When Larry Brown shows up at Gampel you will forget all about Pitt or WVU basketball. As big as Huggins or Lavin are ,I think Brown will create the same buzz at SMU. A perfect hire for them.

Overall basketball has the potential to be just as strong. Football? Are Houston and Boise better than Pitt and SU?

The foot print sucks. The Big Sprawl. The loss of SU basketball and WVU football hurt. The rest? Maybe not so much. The Pitt rivalry will never be what it was again anyway in the years after the Khalid El-Amin game. And SU? No Preston Shumperts ready to have a career game against UConn at the Dome? No Devolution? Ahh...memories. It will pass.

 

[whaler11]

When Larry Brown shows up at Gampel you will forget all about Pitt or WVU basketball. As big as Huggins or Lavin are ,I think Brown will create the same buzz at SMU. A perfect hire for them.

Overall basketball has the potential to be just as strong. Football? Are Houston and Boise better than Pitt and SU?

The foot print sucks. The Big Sprawl. The loss of SU basketball and WVU football hurt. The rest? Maybe not so much. The Pitt rivalry will never be what it was again anyway in the years after the Khalid El-Amin game. And SU? No Preston Shumperts ready to have a career game against UConn at the Dome? No Devolution? Ahh...memories. It will pass.

Larry Brown at SMU is certainly interesting, but he's not exactly one for seeing things through. To me the football product may improve long term on the changes, I'm not seeing how the basketball hasn't been downgraded. Based on the size of this league and Brown's 'history', it's probably about even odds he ever even coaches a game against UConn at Gampel or XL.

Nobody is saying that Pitt didn't bring a heck of a lot to the league in basketball! Also, nobody is saying that Pitt isn't a better bball program than Memphis currently! (not Upstater, and not me!). What is being said is that Memphis has every opportunity to be as good as them; mostly because they continue to go to the tourney with multiple coaches.

If they fell off a cliff, it was a 1-ft high cliff, whereby they landed on another almost equally high cliff. Again, three of their losses last year were to Big East elite, and if they were to be in the league, they would replace those three games with three OOC cupcakes, just like we do. They would also have a good chance of beating DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, USF, and maybe even St. John's. It's ridiculous to think that they "fell off a cliff". If you have fallen off of a cliff, you are not in the NCAA tourney and in the national discussion, period!!

You are right about one thing, though; we aren't going to agree...

If in the the three years after Calhoun leaves UConn doesn't win an NCAA tournament game and doesn't have a seed higher than 8... you don't think the perception will be that the program fell off? I must be missing how NIT/12 seed/8 seed - no NCAA wins is 'almost equally high' as Cal had them at where they went to multiple Elite 8s in a row.

I think you highly underestimate the grind of a Big East schedule versus a CUSA schedule. Yes, there are a few nights off in the Big East - DePaul, Rutgers... but CUSA has a half dozen teams that aren't even in the top 150 in the computers. When you have teams 50 slots behind 18-13 NEC teams.... those teams are just plain when compared to a Seton Hall or USF.

Memphis might step up and be great in the league. That's very different that what UConn and Pitt have shared the last decade. I respect your opinions across the board - we are probably just talking past each other at this point.