Rumor---NBC will pay $20-24 million per year to ND (contract renewal)

[Marty Jackson]

Big East basketball took a big hit with the loss of Syracuse, Pitt and WVU. Temple is an adequate replacement, Memphis is meh and Houston is a joke.

I'd say BE basketball took a bigger hit than football.

Memphis is better than meh... They are better than Temple.

SU, Pitt and WVU hurt bb no doubt, but we have more than enough programs to remain the top BB conference: Uconn, Temple, Memphis, UofL, Cincy, G'town, Nova, Marquette, and ND are all top programs. Houston has some history and could make it back to the big time, and SMU has made a statement by bringing in Larry Brown.

With FB, it's more noticeable because we're so watered down.

 

[whaler11]

They jammed the XL Center for 10 years. Before that, there was no pulse at all. And, the BE prior to the 5 new teams was already at 16 and would have been 17 with TCU there. So--is there really a new big difference with 18 teams instead of 17?

Well I think there is 19 or 20 going forward, it's hard to keep track. UConn and Pitt might not be the oldest rivalry in the world, but to recreate an equal rivalry - you'll need not only a sustained period of excellent basketball from a school that hasn't achieved that type of success in decades if ever as well as the timing of many memorable battles for regular season and tournament championships. Which one of Houston, Temple, SMU, UCF or Memphis is ever going to have an atmosphere like Pitt does in their building?

What are the chances that UConn ever has two moments like Taliek's prayer or Kemba's buzzer beater against any single school in the next 50 years, nevermind over 10. When are those schools going to have two players to hate like Troutman and Krauser?

Let's say the Catholics break away. You aren't going to be more interested in Villanova/Georgetown or Notre Dame/St. John's than Houston/Memphis or UCF/SMU? Learn from the ACC - you can put Boston College in their league, but it doesn't make a Carolina or NC State fan care about the Eagles.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Well I think there is 19 or 20 going forward, it's hard to keep track. UConn and Pitt might not be the oldest rivalry in the world, but to recreate an equal rivalry - you'll need not only a sustained period of excellent basketball from a school that hasn't achieved that type of success in decades if ever as well as the timing of many memorable battles for regular season and tournament championships. Which one of Houston, Temple, SMU, UCF or Memphis is ever going to have an atmosphere like Pitt does in their building?

What are the chances that UConn ever has two moments like Taliek's prayer or Kemba's buzzer beater against any single school in the next 50 years, nevermind over 10. When are those schools going to have two players to hate like Troutman and Krauser?

Let's say the Catholics break away. You aren't going to be more interested in Villanova/Georgetown or Notre Dame/St. John's than Houston/Memphis or UCF/SMU? Learn from the ACC - you can put Boston College in their league, but it doesn't make a Carolina or NC State fan care about the Eagles.

I mean, you're stating that the current Big East is better than the NNBE by a large margin - I don't think anybody is arguing that.

But over the course of the next 5-10 years why can't Memphis, Temple and even more so Louisville become rivalry type games.

I'm only 26 so my UConn memories begin with Ray Allen, but suffice to say UConn/Syracuse became pretty good rivals within 10 years of the Big East - right?

Granted you don't get the home/home in basketball anymore, but we'll be playing these teams in football nearly every year where as we didn't compete with BE teams until 2004.

There may not be another Syracuse or Boston College type rival - but Pitt, WVU? I don't see why a newcomer can't fill that void.

 

[Carl Spackler]

whaler11 = positive energy sucker.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I mean, you're stating that the current Big East is better than the NNBE by a large margin - I don't think anybody is arguing that.

But over the course of the next 5-10 years why can't Memphis, Temple and even more so Louisville become rivalry type games.

I'm only 26 so my UConn memories begin with Ray Allen, but suffice to say UConn/Syracuse became pretty good rivals within 10 years of the Big East - right?

Granted you don't get the home/home in basketball anymore, but we'll be playing these teams in football nearly every year where as we didn't compete with BE teams until 2004.

There may not be another Syracuse or Boston College type rival - but Pitt, WVU? I don't see why a newcomer can't fill that void.

I think I speak for many on the board, when I say the following-

Fucckk I'm old.

Enjoy your youth. You don't get a second chance to re-live it.

 

[whaler11]

There may not be another Syracuse or Boston College type rival - but Pitt, WVU? I don't see why a newcomer can't fill that void.

I guess we just disagree on how difficult it is for two schools for UConn and Pitt to play a decade of games like they did.

You need a decade of excellent teams on top the opportunity for great matchups combined with fantastic endings in games with major implications.

 

[whaler11]

I think I speak for many on the board, when I say the following-

Fucckk I'm old.

Enjoy your youth. You don't get a second chance to re-live it.

Agreed. Ray Allen was a sophomore when I was a senior. I'd love to share my Ray Allen, Travis Knight and Toraino Walker stories - but it's unfair on a message board.

 

[whaler11]

whaler11 = positive energy sucker.

I'm sure once the Navy rolls their ships into Lake Pocotopaug I'll sign on.

 

[upstater]

Which one of Houston, Temple, SMU, UCF or Memphis is ever going to have an atmosphere like Pitt does in their building?

When are those schools going to have two players to hate like Troutman and Krauser?

You aren't going to be more interested in Villanova/Georgetown or Notre Dame/St. John's than Houston/Memphis or UCF/SMU? Learn from the ACC - you can put Boston College in their league, but it doesn't make a Carolina or NC State fan care about the Eagles.

1. Memphis already does have great atmosphere, and support. Houston may get it.
2. What's so special about Troutman and Krauser?
3. All the Catholics are still in the league. They leave when UConn leaves. But yes I can imagine getting more jazzed up for a game against a top ranked Memphis team.
4. BC doesn't have the basketball background of even a Temple, never mind Memphis.

 

[goCoogs]

Houston fans hate Georgetown. Houston has Final Four history against Louisville. Houston had a great atmosphere in '99 when UConn visited. Also just a few years ago when we beat Kentucky.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

They jammed the XL Center for 10 years. Before that, there was no pulse at all. And, the BE prior to the 5 new teams was already at 16 and would have been 17 with TCU there. So--is there really a new big difference with 18 teams instead of 17?

This is another one of those threads where Whaler argues for the sake of arguing.

Pitt and WVU are nothing more than regionally interesting in basketball. WVU is good because it has one of the best coaches of the last two decades, and Pitt was nothing before Howland showed up, and could very well go back to nothing after Dixon leaves, which I expect to be soon. Anyone remember the Paul Evans or Ralph Willard eras at Pitt? I didn't think so.

Syracuse is a huge loss, no doubt about it. But Memphis, Temple and Houston not only have tremendous histories, but all three are among the top cities for high school basketball talent in the entire country. A little more attractive on that standpoint than Syracuse, Pittsburgh and the entire state of West Virginia. I suspect that each of Memphis, Temple and Houston produce more high level division 1 talent every year than Syr., Pitt., and WV combined.

 

[businesslawyer]

Pitt was nothing before Howland showed up, and could very well go back to nothing after Dixon leaves, which I expect to be soon. Anyone remember the Paul Evans or Ralph Willard eras at Pitt? I didn't think so.

Seriously? You don't think that can be said about us?

Our rivalry with Pitt does exist and is not easily replaceable. The juice in the building when we have played Pitt in a big game is undeniable. (Well, at least outside of this board.)

 

[whaler11]

1. Memphis already does have great atmosphere, and support. Houston may get it.
2. What's so special about Troutman and Krauser?
3. All the Catholics are still in the league. They leave when UConn leaves. But yes I can imagine getting more jazzed up for a game against a top ranked Memphis team.
4. BC doesn't have the basketball background of even a Temple, never mind Memphis.

1 The pyramid may be bigger than Peterson Events - it's not the same type of atmosphere. Good for Houston - Pitt already has it.

2. Nothing all that special about them other than the great battles UConn had against them - you know the sort of things that create real rivalries.

3 or Louisville potentially.

4. No kidding. Boston College still damaged their basketball program by moving to a league that makes no sense for them. Pittsburgh and Syracuse may have done the same.

 

[RS9999X]

4. No kidding. Boston College still damaged their basketball program by moving to a league that makes no sense for them. Pittsburgh and Syracuse may have done the same.

It's a balance of power thing. There's always some tension between Athletic Directors and high profile winning coaches. When Boeheim retires the egos in the ADs office will be in control much like the fiasco at Boston College. On field performance is no longer important: what matters is the ADs contract management skills abd bluster. Ott is half way there with the coaching fiasco last year and deflecting the blame to the BE and then hiring a coach who looks to be of average competence.

 

[The Funster]

I think Pitt basketball was already on a slide downward. I think their NY recruiting will be hurt even more when they leave for the ACC.

 

[CL82]

I get the premise - it just assumes that a network that already doesn't do well is willing to lose money for the honor of broadcasting the games.

A reasonable assumption when their other choice seems to be fold up shop. Start up ventures often struggle. They need to get in the game and we are their way in.

 

[whaler11]

This is another one of those threads where Whaler argues for the sake of arguing.

Pitt and WVU are nothing more than regionally interesting in basketball. WVU is good because it has one of the best coaches of the last two decades, and Pitt was nothing before Howland showed up, and could very well go back to nothing after Dixon leaves, which I expect to be soon. Anyone remember the Paul Evans or Ralph Willard eras at Pitt? I didn't think so.

Syracuse is a huge loss, no doubt about it. But Memphis, Temple and Houston not only have tremendous histories, but all three are among the top cities for high school basketball talent in the entire country. A little more attractive on that standpoint than Syracuse, Pittsburgh and the entire state of West Virginia. I suspect that each of Memphis, Temple and Houston produce more high level division 1 talent every year than Syr., Pitt., and WV combined.

Pitt and UConn are always on CBS and Big Monday because it's only UConn that gets them the national window. Yet when UConn plays other regional programs like PC they are on ESPNU or regionally.... Odd.

 

[upstater]

Pitt and UConn are always on CBS and Big Monday because it's only UConn that gets them the national window. Yet when UConn plays other regional programs like PC they are on ESPNU or regionally.... Odd.

Or Marquette or Louisville or Georgetown or Syracuse or, for that matter, any team that's decent. No, not PC. But if Memphis and Houston are ranked, they will show the game.

 

[whaler11]

Or Marquette or Louisville or Georgetown or Syracuse or, for that matter, any team that's decent. No, not PC. But if Memphis and Houston are ranked, they will show the game.

Marquette, Louisville, Syracuse and Georgetown are pretty far north of 'decent'. Pittsburgh is hardly regional.

They may have flushed it down the toilet by joining the ACC - but Houston is lightyears away from being Pittsburgh.

 

[upstater]

Marquette, Louisville, Syracuse and Georgetown are pretty far north of 'decent'. Pittsburgh is hardly regional.

They may have flushed it down the toilet by joining the ACC - but Houston is lightyears away from being Pittsburgh.

I didn't say they weren't decent. And, I wrote that Memphis can be Pittsburgh. Why are you substituting Houston? Is Memphis too good for the comparison?

 

[whaler11]

I didn't say they weren't decent. And, I wrote that Memphis can be Pittsburgh. Why are you substituting Houston? Is Memphis too good for the comparison?

Can they be as good at basketball as Pittsburgh? They probably are now. Assuming they can continue to admit players who have others take their SATs they will probably continue to be good Will they ever have a rivalry with UConn like Pitt does? Highly unlikely.

 

[UConnDan97]

Assuming they can continue to admit players who have others take their SATs they will probably continue to be good.

Link?

 

[whaler11]

Link?

You need a link to Derrick Rose's SAT story? Memphis vacated an entire season over it.

 

[UConnDan97]

You need a link to Derrick Rose's SAT story? Memphis vacated an entire season over it.

you are referring to 2008??? You don't think that Calipari had anything at all to do with that?!? So I guess in your opinion, the UConn basketball team deserves their punishment this year for the APR scores of 08-09, huh? Are you going to tell me about SMU's death penalty too, so that you can keep going with your NBE argument? It's 2012. Let's talk about the teams now, shall we?

 

[whaler11]

you are referring to 2008??? You don't think that Calipari had anything at all to do with that?!? So I guess in your opinion, the UConn basketball team deserves their punishment this year for the APR scores of 08-09, huh? Are you going to tell me about SMU's death penalty too, so that you can keep going with your NBE argument? It's 2012. Let's talk about the teams now, shall we?

Oh so 2008 doesn't align with a successful period for them. If you are building a case for Memphis being as good as Pitt - they went to the Elite Eight in 06, 07, 08 - one last Sweet Sixteen in 09 and have done nothing of note since.

So when Memphis was most successful it was when Calipari was up to his tricks - but they are going to replace Pitt even though their most successful season was vacated for cheating.

They didn't win before Cal and they haven't been good since. Cal didn't even win playing it straight up. But Memphis is going to win cleanly going forward - what is that based on other than hope?

 

[UConnDan97]

Oh so 2008 doesn't align with a successful period for them. If you are building a case for Memphis being as good as Pitt - they went to the Elite Eight in 06, 07, 08 - one last Sweet Sixteen in 09 and have done nothing of note since.

So when Memphis was most successful it was when Calipari was up to his tricks - but they are going to replace Pitt even though their most successful season was vacated for cheating.

They didn't win before Cal and they haven't been good since. Cal didn't even win playing it straight up. But Memphis is going to win cleanly going forward - what is that based on other than hope?

This is why I cannot take you seriously most times, and I'm guessing that others can't either. Here is Memphis' record under Josh Pastner:

2009-2010: 24-10 (NIT)
2010-2011: 25-10 (NCAA Tourney)
2011-2012: 26-9 (NCAA Tourney)
Overall winning percentage as Memphis HC: .721

That's "what it's based on"....not "hope." Do you just like to argue for argument's sake? C'mon, man!

 

[whaler11]

This is why I cannot take you seriously most times, and I'm guessing that others can't either. Here is Memphis' record under Josh Pastner:

2009-2010: 24-10 (NIT)
2010-2011: 25-10 (NCAA Tourney)
2011-2012: 26-9 (NCAA Tourney)
Overall winning percentage as Memphis HC: .721

That's "what it's based on"....not "hope." Do you just like to argue for argument's sake? C'mon, man!

Yes the raw record looks, but its CUSA and 26-8 got them an 8-9 game they lost to an A-10 team.

It's a step up in class every night - it's a whole different level over the course of a season. You don't get Rice and East Carolina anymore.

 

[Dann]

Memphis bball is bsu fball. Both will be great for the nbe.

 

[UCFBfan]

Yes the raw record looks, but its CUSA and 26-8 got them an 8-9 game they lost to an A-10 team.

It's a step up in class every night - it's a whole different level over the course of a season. You don't get Rice and East Carolina anymore.

For once I gotta go with whaler on this one. I think Memphis and Temple have a good foundation with fans and program because of past success but they're going to need to step up their game to compete in the Big East. Not saying it can't happen but it's hard to compare past success in a lesser basketball conference to how they might do in the Big East. Last year's tournament showing doesn't bode well for them. In 2011 they were a 12 seed and lost to Arizona. While Arizona was nasty that year, we beat them in the Elite 8, it's still an example of them not doing well against better competition.

If you look at Memphis last season they beat only Tennessee twice (one was in double OT) and Miami. They lost to Michigan, Georgetown twice, Louisville, and Murray State. There's not a quality win on the schedule. Now remove Rice, Tulane, ECU, Tulsa and replace them with Marquette, UConn, Cincinnati, and Villanova and I must say that it's not gonna be easy for them.

Not saying they can't get there soon, just that it's not going to be as simple as jumping in and being an elite program like Pitt has been every season except last season for the past 10 years or so.

 

[pj]

Sure, it won't be easy, but it'll be much easier to recruit to the Big East than to C-USA. They can step up. No reason to think they won't. People forget that UConn had to step up to the Big East.