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WingU continues to focus on the fact that Seton Hall is not a perennial top25 team and saying, "What has the Big East done for them?!?" The point is what were they BEFORE they were in the Big East! Since that Final Four in 1989, They have been to the Elite 8 (1991), Sweet 16 (1992), BE / BE Tourney Champs (1993), NCAA tourney in 1994, 2000, 2004, and 2006. They have been to the NIT in 1995, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2010, and 2012.

This is a private school with less than 5,300 students!! And they are consistently in the postseason?? Now you want to use them as the barometer for what will happen to Memphis (pop. 18,000). That's fine to do, so long as you are honest with yourself and others that Seton Hall is much better of a team after joining the Big East than they ever were without. So if Memphis gets any improvement at all, building on the fact that they are a top25 caliber program, they will be in very good shape. That's the point. That has been the point for about 5 pages of this God-forsaken thread. And it's a point that you refuse to admit holds any water. That's fine. Then just let it be...
 
UConnDan97 said:
WingU continues to focus on the fact that Seton Hall is not a perennial top25 team and saying, "What has the Big East done for them?!?" The point is what were they BEFORE they were in the Big East! Since that Final Four in 1989, They have been to the Elite 8 (1991), Sweet 16 (1992), BE / BE Tourney Champs (1993), NCAA tourney in 1994, 2000, 2004, and 2006. They have been to the NIT in 1995, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2010, and 2012.

This is a private school with less than 5,300 students!! And they are consistently in the postseason?? Now you want to use them as the barometer for what will happen to Memphis (pop. 18,000). That's fine to do, so long as you are honest with yourself and others that Seton Hall is much better of a team after joining the Big East than they ever were without. So if Memphis gets any improvement at all, building on the fact that they are a top25 caliber program, they will be in very good shape. That's the point. That has been the point for about 5 pages of this God-forsaken thread. And it's a point that you refuse to admit holds any water. That's fine. Then just let it be...
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Can I tell you both that you have a point? In theory being in the Big East should help Memphis - but it certainly hasn't helped a number of schools in the recent past. Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, Rutgers.... even St. John's. None of those schools should be as bad/mediocre as they have been for this long if simply being in the league is a big advantage. Memphis has advantages over those schools even without being in the league - bigger fan base, huge building, loose admission standards. On paper the idea that Memphis will step up makes sense, there is just no guarantee that they immediately step up in class without Cal just because they need to.

Seton Hall was better because of the Big East, but the landscape is much different in 2013 and forward than it was when the Big East launched. The football schools have athletic money that Seton Hall can only dream of and because of this even if they finally find a coach like PJ, they will have a hell of a time keeping him. At the Big East level only Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette have been able to keep up - and even their success is less consistent than UConn, Syracuse and Pitt. Memphis has an upside like Marquette - big following in a decent sized city where basketball matters - I still won't believe they can get to the next level beyond that until they do.
 
whaler11 said:
Can I tell you both that you have a point? In theory being in the Big East should help Memphis - but it certainly hasn't helped a number of schools in the recent past. Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, Rutgers.... even St. John's. None of those schools should be as bad/mediocre as they have been for this long if simply being in the league is a big advantage. Memphis has advantages over those schools even without being in the league - bigger fan base, huge building, loose admission standards. On paper the idea that Memphis will step up makes sense, there is just no guarantee that they immediately step up in class without Cal just because they need to.

Seton Hall was better because of the Big East, but the landscape is much different in 2013 and forward than it was when the Big East launched. The football schools have athletic money that Seton Hall can only dream of and because of this even if they finally find a coach like PJ, they will have a hell of a time keeping him. At the Big East level only Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette have been able to keep up - and even their success is less consistent than UConn, Syracuse and Pitt. Memphis has an upside like Marquette - big following in a decent sized city where basketball matters - I still won't believe they can get to the next level beyond that until they do.
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I understand what you are saying (or at least I think I do), that none of those schools are perennial top25 contenders. But what I feel people are losing sight of is the fact that Seton Hall has a smaller student body than Quinnipiac! Seriously, it is about 400 people smaller than Quinnipiac. If you were to tell Quinnipiac that by joining the Big East, they would be a perennial top50-top60 program, with interchangeable years in the NCAA and NIT tourneys (more NIT's, admittedly), they would be jumping off of the top of their dorms for joy. That's the difference.

Being in the Big East has allowed a Quinnipiac-like school in Seton Hall to recruit NBA caliber players (I think 11 or 12 since the late 80's). The Terry Dehere's and Sam Dalembert's of the world. That's really saying something. I'm not saying that Memphis will be bigger than UConn, and God I hope not, but what I am saying is that I fully expect them to be a perennial top25 player and a tournament team to be feared year in and year out.
 
UConnDan97 said:
I understand what you are saying (or at least I think I do), that none of those schools are perennial top25 contenders. But what I feel people are losing sight of is the fact that Seton Hall has a smaller student body than Quinnipiac! Seriously, it is about 400 people smaller than Quinnipiac. If you were to tell Quinnipiac that by joining the Big East, they would be a perennial top50-top60 program, with interchangeable years in the NCAA and NIT tourneys (more NIT's, admittedly), they would be jumping off of the top of their dorms for joy. That's the difference.

Being in the Big East has allowed a Quinnipiac-like school in Seton Hall to recruit NBA caliber players (I think 11 or 12 since the late 80's). The Terry Dehere's and Sam Dalembert's of the world. That's really saying something. I'm not saying that Memphis will be bigger than UConn, and God I hope not, but what I am saying is that I fully expect them to be a perennial top25 player and a tournament team to be feared year in and year out.
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Actually none of those teams ever sniff the Top 25. I think that being a perennial Top 25 team and being feared come tournament time every year is a very high standard. There aren't that many teams that fit that description - that is part of my overall point - losing 3 of them is a huge blow to the Big East.
 
whaler11 said:
Actually none of those teams ever sniff the Top 25. I think that being a perennial Top 25 team and being feared come tournament time every year is a very high standard. There aren't that many teams that fit that description - that is part of my overall point - losing 3 of them is a huge blow to the Big East.
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Who doesn't ever sniff the Top 25? Seton Hall or Memphis? Seton Hall was ranked 23rd in January before they fell out of the top 25, and Memphis was as high as 8th in November. Or are you talking about Providence, Rutgers, and St. John's. If you are talking about them, then yes, I agree that the days of God Shammgod are over. St. John's, however....do not be surprised to see them back in the next two years. Lavin is a hell of a coach, and he has that city starting to get excited about St. John's again (which is dangerous). If he wasn't sick this past year, I think things may have shaken out a little differently for that team.
 
Actually, I should be careful about what I just said pertaining to Providence. They did just have a pretty sweet recruiting class, when they grabbed Kris Dunn (I thought we would get him; #1 point guard in the class, #16 overall) and Ricardo Ledo (#2 shooting guard, #6 national), along with two other 3-star prospects. They could also be scary good in a year or two...
 
.-.
UConnDan97 said:
Who doesn't ever sniff the Top 25? Seton Hall or Memphis? Seton Hall was ranked 23rd in January before they fell out of the top 25, and Memphis was as high as 8th in November. Or are you talking about Providence, Rutgers, and St. John's. If you are talking about them, then yes, I agree that the days of God Shammgod are over. St. John's, however....do not be surprised to see them back in the next two years. Lavin is a hell of a coach, and he has that city starting to get excited about St. John's again (which is dangerous). If he wasn't sick this past year, I think things may have shaken out a little differently for that team.
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Seton Hall, SJU, Depaul, Providence, Rutgers. Yeah I know SHU was decent this year and SJU is recruiting like crazy. I wasn't referring to Memphis.

Again sort of the point. No reason SJU should have been this bad this long. I hope SJU does get better, it's good for league.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Actually, I should be careful about what I just said pertaining to Providence. They did just have a pretty sweet recruiting class, when they grabbed Kris Dunn (I thought we would get him; #1 point guard in the class, #16 overall) and Ricardo Ledo (#2 shooting guard, #6 national), along with two other 3-star prospects. They could also be scary good in a year or two...
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I'll believe Providence is good when they are good. The problem with a couple of huge gets is you need a constant pipeline to play that game. One player can't win in the league (i.e Melvin) and if you don't have a constant flow they are gone for the NBA before you know it.... Like at St. John's.
 
whaler11 said:
I'll believe Providence is good when they are good. The problem with a couple of huge gets is you need a constant pipeline to play that game. One player can't win in the league (i.e Melvin) and if you don't have a constant flow they are gone for the NBA before you know it.... Like at St. John's.
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I think that St. John's was a very good team when Jarvis was at the helm. When Roberts took over, I think they lost a lot. Now that Lavin is at the helm, I'm guessing they will be back to being a dangerous team. St. John's has always been able to get a couple of good players from NYC to stay home, no matter what. Also, Providence won't just be 1 player. Like I mentioned, they have 2 very high profile players in their recruiting class, along with two other high quality players:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/connecticut/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2012/providence-636

I think that they will have a return to the limelight. I think that the Big East will not lose very much after it is all said and done. Sure, it is going to hurt to lose Cuse. Anyone who thinks differently isn't being honest with themselves. And Pitt too; they have been good for us for about a good 15 years. WVU was a solid program, but I think that they are replaced by Temple. If Memphis can replace Pitt, and if the other teams like Providence and Seton Hall can continue to getting back to winning, I think the Big East will still be in the top 2 leagues in the country, possibly number 1 again.

By the way, check out Houston's new recruiting class! Big East "up-tick"??

http://rivals.yahoo.com/connecticut/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2012/houston-80
 
UConnDan97 said:
I think that St. John's was a very good team when Jarvis was at the helm. When Roberts took over, I think they lost a lot. Now that Lavin is at the helm, I'm guessing they will be back to being a dangerous team. St. John's has always been able to get a couple of good players from NYC to stay home, no matter what. Also, Providence won't just be 1 player. Like I mentioned, they have 2 very high profile players in their recruiting class, along with two other high quality players:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/connecticut/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2012/providence-636

I think that they will have a return to the limelight. I think that the Big East will not lose very much after it is all said and done. Sure, it is going to hurt to lose Cuse. Anyone who thinks differently isn't being honest with themselves. And Pitt too; they have been good for us for about a good 15 years. WVU was a solid program, but I think that they are replaced by Temple. If Memphis can replace Pitt, and if the other teams like Providence and Seton Hall can continue to getting back to winning, I think the Big East will still be in the top 2 leagues in the country, possibly number 1 again.

By the way, check out Houston's new recruiting class! Big East "up-tick"??

http://rivals.yahoo.com/connecticut/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2012/houston-80
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I guess I don't put as much faith in recruiting ratings - I don't just assume Providence will have two really good players based on that.

I hope Houston has an uptick - when you are 70 slots behind Quinnipiac
in the computers and have to jump to Big East you better get some players stat.
 
whaler11 said:
I guess I don't put as much faith in recruiting ratings - I don't just assume Providence will have two really good players based on that.

I hope Houston has an uptick - when you are 70 slots behind Quinnipiac
in the computers and have to jump to Big East you better get some players stat.
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Well, I'm giving Providence's class a lot more credence based on the fact that we were really trying hard to get one of their players (Dunn). Also, it isn't like Houston hasn't had basketball success in that city before. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that Clyde Drexler is going to come back with Phi Slamma Jamma and all that, but I'm sure they're going to get back to winning ways there very soon. Based on that recruiting list, perhaps sooner than I thought.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Well, I'm giving Providence's class a lot more credence based on the fact that we were really trying hard to get one of their players (Dunn). Also, it isn't like Houston hasn't had basketball success in that city before. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that Clyde Drexler is going to come back with Phi Slamma Jamma and all that, but I'm sure they're going to get back to winning ways there very soon. Based on that recruiting list, perhaps sooner than I thought.
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Why are you sure Houston is going to be back to their winning ways? One improved class? In short they have sucked - you don't finish 200 in the Pomeroys by accident.
 
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Houston returns their top 3 scorers, two of them were freshmen. They had an excellent recruiting year landing two 4 stars recruits and two JC's. When Houston begins playing in the BE they will have BE talent on their team. They will hold their own in two years. Houston BB is on the up swing.
 
uconn/lville/cincy can hold down the bball fort up top for national perception. memphis joins this group.

usf/ucf/ruty/uh/smu are all on the rise. maybe smu is a reach but it seems like they are going for it. temple is at the begining of this group.

prov/shu are not worth jack shit to this league. i actually wish we spilt and while nova/gt/sju/marq/dep are value members i dont want bball onlys.

sdsu is rising fast and is quality now and bsu is actually improving also which is crazy. i want 16/18/20 all sports so a byu type or a unr/unlv would also be great bball. this league is fine without the bball onlys. it cleans the pac12s/a10 clock. its depending on year one of the big 4 with acc/sec/b12/b10 for the top 5. NOT WORRIED about bball and u guys shouldnt be either. if for some crazy reason the bball league the bed we are uconn, we make some calls and load up ooc games until we find a good home for our sports.
 
I'd say this about sums up the last 100 posts.

Cuse, Pitt, Wvu >> Memphis, Temple, Houston >> PC, SH, DePaul.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
mcs333 said:
Houston returns their top 3 scorers, two of them were freshmen. They had an excellent recruiting year landing two 4 stars recruits and two JC's. When Houston begins playing in the BE they will have BE talent on their team. They will hold their own in two years. Houston BB is on the up swing.
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This. +1
 
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