Rick Issanza (C, 7'1", 225) to visit

[Ewekon]

Prepare yourself for an avalanche of dubious OBE/AAC claims.

I get what you are saying; but not dubious. Big competitive difference. Still there is a happy medium and Josh has come a long way.

 

[imno1]

We need @tcf15 to put together 2nd year highlights of Travis, Jake, Hilton and Boone. Let’s see if he can get 12 minutes on any of them. They all turned out to be important players but I believe Carlton had the better soph season.

 

[Kenny11]

I’m not sure of the numbers but Boone was a beast and a very good rebounder immediately. He Had a big impact even as a freshman and athletically was a nightmare for opponents, but that’s was helped by the other bigs he played with.

I might disagree about Boone but the human memory isn’t very good plus I’m drinking. Carlton clearly had a better sophomore season than the others you mentioned though

 

[pj]

Well, let's take a look, see if we can't convince you.

As a sophomore, Carlton averaged 9.0 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 3.1 fouls on .607 shooting, .627 from the line. His /40 numbers were 16.2 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3.2 blocks, 5.5 fouls.

Knight's per game numbers were 2.5 points, 2.9 rebounds, 1 block, 2.3 fouls on .439 shooting, 50% from the line. /40 numbers are 8.3 points, 9.9 rebounds, 3.3 blocks, 7.9 fouls.

Armstrong's per game numbers were 2.4 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.7 blocks, 1.6 fouls, 50% shooting, .388 from the line. /40 numbers were 10.2 points, 12.3 rebounds, 3.0 blocks, 6.9 fouls.

By any reasonable statistical measure, Carlton was, by far, the best player as a sophomore. Why do you feel otherwise?

Travis Knight played 11.8 minutes per game as a sophomore, Hilton Armstrong played 9.1, Josh Carlton played 22.2. Carlton was the only interior player for UConn last year. Travis as a sophomore in 1993-1994 played with Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall, Ray Allen, Doron Sheffer, Kirk King, Rudy Johnson, Brian Fair. Hilton as a sophomore in 2003-2004 played with Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Boone, Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson, Denham Brown, Taliek Brown, Marcus Williams, and Marcus White.

Offense was not going through either Travis or Hilton on either team, and there was a lot of competition for rebounds from their teammates. On offense, both were often pulled away from the basket to set screens, which Calhoun used extensively.

Bottom line, Travis and Hilton had similar per-minute statistics on much stronger teams and with much less offense running through them.

I like Carlton and he may be a better college player than Travis or Hilton as a sophomore, but he has much less pro potential.

 

[superjohn]

Travis Knight played 11.8 minutes per game as a sophomore, Hilton Armstrong played 9.1, Josh Carlton played 22.2. Carlton was the only interior player for UConn last year. Travis as a sophomore in 1993-1994 played with Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall, Ray Allen, Doron Sheffer, Kirk King, Rudy Johnson, Brian Fair. Hilton as a sophomore in 2003-2004 played with Emeka Okafor, Charlie Villanueva, Josh Boone, Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson, Denham Brown, Taliek Brown, Marcus Williams, and Marcus White.

Offense was not going through either Travis or Hilton on either team, and there was a lot of competition for rebounds from their teammates. On offense, both were often pulled away from the basket to set screens, which Calhoun used extensively.

Bottom line, Travis and Hilton had similar per-minute statistics on much stronger teams and with much less offense running through them.

I like Carlton and he may be a better college player than Travis or Hilton as a sophomore, but he has much less pro potential.

Exactly, the circumstances are all completely different. All these guys he's getting compared to were NBA players, let's just hope Carlton keeps improving.

 

[ToolzieFan]

Well, let's take a look, see if we can't convince you.

As a sophomore, Carlton averaged 9.0 points, 6.2 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 3.1 fouls on .607 shooting, .627 from the line. His /40 numbers were 16.2 points, 11.1 rebounds, 3.2 blocks, 5.5 fouls.

Knight's per game numbers were 2.5 points, 2.9 rebounds, 1 block, 2.3 fouls on .439 shooting, 50% from the line. /40 numbers are 8.3 points, 9.9 rebounds, 3.3 blocks, 7.9 fouls.

Armstrong's per game numbers were 2.4 points, 2.8 rebounds, 0.7 blocks, 1.6 fouls, 50% shooting, .388 from the line. /40 numbers were 10.2 points, 12.3 rebounds, 3.0 blocks, 6.9 fouls.

By any reasonable statistical measure, Carlton was, by far, the best player as a sophomore. Why do you feel otherwise?

Good work, Bruce. I had looked these numbers up and was just coming here to chime in. When the differences are the that large, I don’t think the conference really matters. And for those who will discuss minutes and opportunities: we’ll never know what Knight or Armstrong would have done with more minutes, but it’s clear Carlton was the more productive player as a sophomore.

 

[ToolzieFan]

Bottom line, Travis and Hilton had similar per-minute statistics on much stronger teams and with much less offense running through them.

Did you look at the per-minute statistics? Carlton scored almost twice as many points per 40 minutes as Knight.

 

[gtcam]

We need @tcf15 to put together 2nd year highlights of Travis, Jake, Hilton and Boone. Let’s see if he can get 12 minutes on any of them. They all turned out to be important players but I believe Carlton had the better soph season.

the competition was/is different
Josh did improve no doubt but needs to find consistency
still need another 5 for next season

 

[selles]

Good work, Bruce. I had looked these numbers up and was just coming here to chime in. When the differences are the that large, I don’t think the conference really matters. And for those who will discuss minutes and opportunities: we’ll never know what Knight or Armstrong would have done with more minutes, but it’s clear Carlton was the more productive player as a sophomore.

Knight actually did have the opportunity for big minutes his soph year. Calhoun was desperate for him or Hayward to seize the main post role but neither could do it.

Travis was still gangly and weak as a sophomore but he really blossomed as a junior.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Prepare yourself for an avalanche of dubious OBE/AAC claims.

Fortunately, we have SOS data on that, and it doesn't come close to explaining the difference there.

 

[pj]

Did you look at the per-minute statistics? Carlton scored almost twice as many points per 40 minutes as Knight.

Points are the only category with a significant difference, and they are explained by having Ray Allen, Doron Sheffer, Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall, Kirk King, and Brian Fair as teammates. Travis had a good shot out to 12 feet at that time but he wasn't allowed to take it.

 

[ToolzieFan]

Points are the only category with a significant difference, and they are explained by having Ray Allen, Doron Sheffer, Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall, Kirk King, and Brian Fair as teammates. Travis had a good shot out to 12 feet at that time but he wasn't allowed to take it.

But Knight shot 43.9% and Carlton shot 60.7%. You could make the case that Carlton got more attention from opposing defenses since he has much less support around him.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Points are the only category with a significant difference, and they are explained by having Ray Allen, Doron Sheffer, Donyell Marshall, Donny Marshall, Kirk King, and Brian Fair as teammates. Travis had a good shot out to 12 feet at that time but he wasn't allowed to take it.

If he wasn't allowed to shoot from far out, why did he only shoot 44%? Knight also fouled far more often despite playing on a better defensive team. Of course, this doesn't mean that Carlton is going to be a better player the next two years than Knight was in his last two, but any argument that he hasn't been better through his first two years is based entirely in delusion.

 

[UconnU]

Carlton is MILES beyond where Hilton and Knight were at the same age.

Knight? No way.

 

[Chief00]

Good work, Bruce. I had looked these numbers up and was just coming here to chime in. When the differences are the that large, I don’t think the conference really matters. And for those who will discuss minutes and opportunities: we’ll never know what Knight or Armstrong would have done with more minutes, but it’s clear Carlton was the more productive player as a sophomore.

Statistics used by well intended casual fans can be misleading. If we had Ray Allen, Rip or Donyell on last season’s team do you think anyone would have average as many points or rebounds as they did? Of course not. Why would you have CV shooting threes when Ray could? Why would Josh post rather than Donyell? Why would Tyler score vs. Rip? With an additional 2 or 3 Bigs who could actually rebound, do you think Josh or CV would have got as many rebounds as they did?
Real competitive games are a much different dynamic than First Night, where rebounds are there for the taking.

 

[HuskyHawk]

If he wasn't allowed to shoot from far out, why did he only shoot 44%? Knight also fouled far more often despite playing on a better defensive team. Of course, this doesn't mean that Carlton is going to be a better player the next two years than Knight was in his last two, but any argument that he hasn't been better through his first two years is based entirely in delusion.

I’m going from memory, but Travis was fairly athletic and ran the floor well. He also blocked or bothered a lot of shots, rebounded and made good outlet passes. He was the more complete player. Lakers drafted him for a reason.

Carlton has better post offensive moves. Better at that than Boone as well. Hilton was never very good back to basket, his game was facing. Carlton is a poor man’s version of Kevin McHale. His back to the basket skills are very high, even if his athleticism is low. And in this era, not many guys play that way. So defenders aren’t good at defending it. On a team with shooters, he’s going to be hard to stop.

 

[mauconnfan]

I’m going from memory, but Travis was fairly athletic and ran the floor well. He also blocked or bothered a lot of shots, rebounded and made good outlet passes. He was the more complete player. Lakers drafted him for a reason.

Carlton has better post offensive moves. Better at that than Boone as well. Hilton was never very good back to basket, his game was facing. Carlton is a poor man’s version of Kevin McHale. His back to the basket skills are very high, even if his athleticism is low. And in this era, not many guys play that way. So defenders aren’t good at defending it. On a team with shooters, he’s going to be hard to stop.

Good call on Travis. If he had to score more he would have, they had lots of scorers. He was a very good rebounder, very good outlet passer as well as at half court offense, also shot the ball really well. Different players for now but would love to see Josh add a nice 10-15 foot jumper to his artillery.

You could run some offense through Travis and jake for that matter both very good passers for 5's.

 

[Towney007]

Josh Carlton is Travis Knight. I've now heard it all.

 

[superjohn]

Statistics used by well intended casual fans can be misleading. If we had Ray Allen, Rip or Donyell on last season’s team do you think anyone would have average as many points or rebounds as they did? Of course not. Why would you have CV shooting threes when Ray could? Why would Josh post rather than Donyell? Why would Tyler score vs. Rip? With an additional 2 or 3 Bigs who could actually rebound, do you think Josh or CV would have got as many rebounds as they did?
Real competitive games are a much different dynamic than First Night, where rebounds are there for the taking.

It's as if some on this board haven't watched us the past few years and don't realize how much we've sucked. Jalen and maybe Alterique are the only guys who would have gotten any time on those past UConn teams.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I like Carlton, and think he has improved quite a bit and will continue to be a big piece for us.

People are having quite a bit of amnesia in forgetting the quality of players and quality of teams that Hilton and Knight played on. Using numbers put up on a bad UConn team in a bad league to defend the argument provides no context or basis in reality.

 

[mauconnfan]

Josh Carlton is Travis Knight. I've now heard it all.

Did someone say that? I don't see that anywhere.

 

[Towney007]

It's as if some on this board haven't watched us the past few years and don't realize how much we've sucked. Jalen and maybe Alterique are the only guys who would have gotten any time on those past UConn teams.

*The only guys* who'd have played on those teams at all.

I'm not even sure we've had many bench guys from those teams. I'm just trying to think back to 2015 and the guy's we've had, who I think Calhoun would've even recruited.

Boat was one of his guys so he doesn't count. Miller would have played. Maybe Purvis. Brimah was a high motor guy.... but outside of that I really can't think of anyone.

What we've had the past few years were just soft-ish, unfocused, but really athletic/talented guys. Nice kids, but not Calhoun kids. I'm not even sure he'd have gone after Adams, Hamilton, Vital, etc.

It's been almost the exact opposite of what Calhoun would want..

 

[Towney007]

Did someone say that? I don't see that anywhere.

People are using numbers to suggest Carlton is *better* or *further along* even than Knight. It's absurd.

 

[mauconnfan]

People are using numbers to suggest Carlton is *better* or *further along* even than Knight. It's absurd.

He is further along than Travis was after his soph year though. Only because Travis only played 11 minutes a game of course. Only in numbers mind you, by all means Travis may have been really good on this team as a soph but only comparisons are by the numbers of the 2 after 2 years of college. I loved Travis and can only hope that Carlton brings the overall impact that he did to UConn.

 

[Chief00]

He is further along than Travis was after his soph year though. Only because Travis only played 11 minutes a game of course. Only in numbers mind you, by all means Travis may have been really good on this team as a soph but only comparisons are by the numbers of the 2 after 2 years of college. I loved Travis and can only hope that Carlton brings the overall impact that he did to UConn.

In fairness to the current guys - Hilton did not play much early in his career because of talent in front of him - but when he finally got more time, he was ready. He also did the work in the weight room with heavy metal.