Replacing a Legend and Recovering | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Replacing a Legend and Recovering

superjohn said:
Love your posts but Roy over K and Calhoun? Just no.
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Best winning percentage, 3 titles, 6 finals appearances, made the tourney in 28 out of 29 seasons (and the one they didn't they were NIT runners up), 18 trips to the second weekend, 12 30-win seasons, and a top 10 offense year after year after year after year.

If I needed to build a program from scratch, he's not the guy. If I want to take a great program and elevate it, to win 30 games (or thereabouts) decade after decade and give myself the best chance of winning multiple titles, I'm going with Roy.
 
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intlzncster said:
Kansas might have the most sustained success of any of these programs, including UK. Yes, their title total isn't there, but they've had 5 Hall of Fame coaches (Naismith/Phog Allen/Larry Brown/Roy/Self). That's insane. They went to FF with every coach they've ever had in the tournament era.

I had to look this part up, but they've been in 14 FF and 6 Finals, winning 3.
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Yeah, I get it. But no coach has won more than others. Kansas is more of a program where each coach wins a lot and every 25-30 years they win a championship. I was looking more at programs that have had a "Face of the Program" coach. At least Kentucky has had multiple coaches win multiple championships.
 
Yup, winning championships is difficult, that doesn't mean you stop trying. We will likely finish in the bottom half of the AAC this year, it's time for a change.

Florida did a great job replacing Donovan, Gonzaga and Xavier have replaced coaches successfully as has Butler. Cincy will be making their 8th tournament in a row this year with their replacement for Huggins.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
We're basically at the point now where some posters are clamoring to hold onto Tubby Smith.

Let me ask this: for these programs replacing a legend, has the situation ever gotten worse upon firing a disappointing successor?
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Yeah. UNC.
 
Please factor in - change of conference ,
Recruiting restrictions and the ban along with replacing our legend. Say what you want but ours was a unique situation of
WTF.
 
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Matrim55 said:
By the way: Mike Davis has more NCAA tourney appearances over the last 5 seasons (3) at Texas Southern than Ollie has at UConn (2).
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And he was also 0-13 this season until they beat the Southern U. Jaguars at home last night.
 
metsfan2323 said:
Yup, winning championships is difficult, that doesn't mean you stop trying. We will likely finish in the bottom half of the AAC this year, it's time for a change.

Florida did a great job replacing Donovan, Gonzaga and Xavier have replaced coaches successfully as has Butler. Cincy will be making their 8th tournament in a row this year with their replacement for Huggins.
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but do you want to just make it or win? what about OOC? seems a lot of these schools/coaches from the OBE are doing better once UConn, Cuse, Ville, Pitt, ND, etc all left
 
@Matrim55 I agree with your post and the majority of things being said here, but one thing to note about UNC and Guthridge.

I didn't realize this myself until I looked up his numbers, but Guthridge finished 2nd, 3rd and 3rd in the ACC regular season and made final fours in 2 of his 3 seasons. Then he retired.

Whether they underperformed a bit based on preseason expectations I can't comment on because I don't remember, but two final fours in 3 seasons is pretty damn good.
 
Matrim55 said:
Best winning percentage, 3 titles, 3 finals appearances, made the tourney in 28 out of 29 seasons (and the one they didn't they were NIT runners up), 18 trips to the second weekend, 12 30-win seasons, and a top 10 offense year after year after year after year.

If I needed to build a program from scratch, he's not the guy. If I want to take a great program and elevate it, to win 30 games (or thereabouts) decade after decade and give myself the best chance of winning multiple titles, I'm going with Roy.
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It's Kansas and UNC. He's won a ton but so have a lot of guys at those schools.
 
Chin Diesel said:
Let's examine some legendary coaches and what it took for program to get back (or near) to it's former coach's level.

All being done off top of my head without Google. Facts, dates and names will be wrong. Feel free to correct.

UCLA- Wizard of Westwood. Bartow got them to a FF. Also went to a FF with Rod Foster. Harrick got them the '95 championship and Howland got back to back (or 3 in a row FF's) in 2000's. Verdict? No where near the sustained success. Took almost 20 years after Wooden to win another and nothing in another 20 years. Program hasn't achieved any where near peak success or continual success.

Indiana- Closest to UConn. Knight leaves and Davis makes an FF soon thereafter. Went downhill quickly after the FF and really hasn't had consistent national presence in over a decade. A couple of teams cracked top 10 but no more FF's. Not even sure if there's been any E8 since the FF. Several coaching changes and styles since Davis but no where near the glory.

Georgetown- Nothing of significance since JT left. A few good teams and a FF but nothing close to dominance. 20 years since JT left, several coaches later and nothing has stuck.

Villanova- Wright has exceeded any thing from Rollie. More consistently good and nationally significant. Still 20+ years from Rollie to recovery.

UNC- Dean leaves and I can't remember the order. Guthridge? Somewhere Doherty came in as a disaster. Took poaching Good Ole Roy and an academic fraud to get back to continual success.

Kentucky- Poster child for success. Pre integration, post integration, doesn't matter. Rupp, Hall, Pitino, Tubby, Slime ball. Multiple coaches, multiple eras, multiple championships. Tough to find a 10 year stretch where they were out of picture.

Mich St.- Took some time from Heathecoat to Izzo. Heathecoat wasn't consistently great. Izzo elevated program like Wright did at Nova.

Kansas- I'm punting. Always nationally relevant but no dynasties. 3 total championships?

Duke/SU- Incomplete until replacements take over programs.

Just a sampling but UNC and Kentucky have been able to transition and both have done so with dubious methods (cheating).

Izzo and Wright elevated their programs.

Indiana and UConn are closest matches.

In other words, there's not a whole lot out there of keeping program success on cruise control. Has almost always required 10+ years and 2-3 coaching changes to get back to level of success.
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Great post. Only one minor correction: Bartow was the coach when New Britain's Rod Foster led UCLA to the 1980 Final Four. They didn't both get to the FF in separate seasons. Bartow later went on to some success with UAB. Louisville won its first title that season with "Dr. Dunk", Darrell Griffith.
 
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I have the solution.

upload_2018-1-2_21-15-29.png
 
UConnNick said:
Great post. Only one minor correction: Bartow was the coach when New Britain's Rod Foster led UCLA to the 1980 Final Four. They didn't both get to the FF in separate seasons. Bartow later went on to some success with UAB. Louisville won its first title that season with "Dr. Dunk", Darrell Griffith.
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First off, Dr. Dunkenstein was one of three posters I had on my ceiling as a kid- Dr. Dunkenstein, George "Iceman" Gervin in the silver sweats on his ice thrown, and of course, Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka flying off the top rope.


Back on topic,according to Wikipedia............

UCLA Bruins men's basketball - Wikipedia

From 1975 to 1977, Gene Bartow served as the head coach of UCLA. He guided them to a 52–9 record, including a berth in the 1976 Final Four. He coached the 1977 College Player of the Year, Marques Johnson.

Gary Cunningham became the head coach at UCLA in 1977. He coached two seasons, winning the Pacific-8 and Pacific-10 conference championships and leading UCLA to a #2 ranking in the final polls both seasons.

Larry Brown then moved on to coach UCLA from 1979–1981, leading his freshman-dominated 1979–80 team to the NCAA title game before falling to Louisville, 59–54. However, that runner-up finish was later vacated by the NCAA after two players were found to be ineligible. This was one of the few times a Final Four squad had its record vacated (Villanova had its runner-up finish vacated in 1971 because Howard Porter had signed a pro contract).[19]
 
whaler11 said:
Somewhere other than Florida State?

No.

What’s Mike Jarvis up to?
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You're joking, right? Jarvis and Calhoun hate each other's guts.
 
Meanwhile Bruce Pearl has won 11 in a row at Auburn, all without 2 of his three best players seeing any time this season.
 
UConnNick said:
And he was also 0-13 this season until they beat the Southern U. Jaguars at home last night.
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They played Gonzaga, WSU, OSU, Syracuse, Kansas, Clemson, Oregon, Baylor, and TCU (along with Oakland, Toledo, Wyoming). All on the road. That's gotta be the toughest OOC schedule in the country, no?
 
Chin Diesel said:
Larry Brown then moved on to coach UCLA from 1979–1981, leading his freshman-dominated 1979–80 team to the NCAA title game before falling to Louisville, 59–54. However, that runner-up finish was later vacated by the NCAA after two players were found to be ineligible. This was one of the few times a Final Four squad had its record vacated (Villanova had its runner-up finish vacated in 1971 because Howard Porter had signed a pro contract).[19]
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Let's just mention it for old times sake but Cal is particularly amazing at making this happen. Legend.
 
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UConnNick said:
Great post. Only one minor correction: Bartow was the coach when New Britain's Rod Foster led UCLA to the 1980 Final Four. They didn't both get to the FF in separate seasons. Bartow later went on to some success with UAB. Louisville won its first title that season with "Dr. Dunk", Darrell Griffith.
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Larry Brown was the coach for 1980 FF UCLA team.
 
whaler11 said:
Of course I was joking. Who cares what Calhoun thinks about the next coach though?
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Calhoun is still on the UCONN payroll for fundraising. I think it's safe to say that he'd be gone if they hired Jarvis. Not to mention the two of them would likely engage in vehicular manslaughter anytime they passed each other on university or other streets.
 
whaler11 said:
Of course I was joking. Who cares what Calhoun thinks about the next coach though?
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You had one job, JC. You don't get any input next time. Sorry. Love ya, but no.
upload_2018-1-2_21-47-46.png
 
UNC is the most consistent tournament team. 4 HOF coaches, 5 coaches who have taken teams to FF, FF in every full decade. But all that was for naught during the Doh era. He was given one chance to fix his disaster 8-20 season with his guys but when he lost that team, that was all she wrote. Roy is obviously a hell of a backup plan, and it wasn’t guaranteed he’d come back after already turning down the job in 2000. But Doh had to go regardless.
 
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UConnNick said:
Calhoun is still on the UCONN payroll for fundraising. I think it's safe to say that he'd be gone if they hired Jarvis. Not to mention the two of them would likely engage in vehicular manslaughter anytime they passed each other on university or other streets.
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Calhoun has his own basketball program.

He should go run that.

I enjoy watching him loom over his estranged hand picked replacement as much as the next guy... but his opinion about the next hire should matter as much as mine to the people who make the call. Zero.
 
OK, so there is a 10 millin dallor buyout for Ollies contract, plus the new coach will get like a 2 million a year contract. So in essence, our nect coach wull cost us roughly 12 million?? LOL

AWESOMe
 
Matrim55 said:
He's coached Houston to a 12-2 record, including a 26-point win over an Arkansas team that beat us by 35.
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That's Kelvin Sampson. No clue where Mr. Sanction is coaching.
 
Jaker said:
OK, so there is a 10 millin dallor buyout for Ollies contract, plus the new coach will get like a 2 million a year contract. So in essence, our nect coach wull cost us roughly 12 million?? LOL

AWESOMe
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Dude, are you still on your New Year's Eve bender?
 
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