Religion in football

[Confident Carl]

You'd be very wrong to characterize all those who disagree with you, as atheisists. I realize it is needed to support your position, but you'd still be wrong.

I believe you misunderstood me. The group that went after Dabo Sweeney was an atheist Group from Ohio called Freedom from Religion. It is groups like that who turn over the rocks to destroy organized religion and people. Obviously folks have different views, denominations and religions but not everyone is an athiest. Most people believe in God and a minority are atheists.

 

[Confident Carl]

Got any public quotes from KO where he's directly speaking the name of the Christian god ? Because thanking "god" for something can mean almost anything.

Out of respect for his tremendous accomplishment and that of his team, I choose to let him speak for himself. I believe that is how he would want it. Although he has a way with words, he is also a man of action and accomplishment which is why he is so successful. Winning a National Championship in his 2nd year as a head coach considering all the odds is proof to me that God answers KO's prayers.

 

[Kingspoint]

It's been said in Texas that football is a religion. Hence shouldn't state sponsored football be banned in Texas? ;-)

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I think what's lost in this discussion is how incredibly easy it is to leave the preaching and ritual at the workplace door. There really is no excuse for intentionally integrating religion into an athletic program. It is in a word, unprofessional.

A coach isn't introducing a foreign element. The team chaplain and pregame prayer was always a part of football. The reasons mirror why the same exists in armies, most men want it and the leader feel it helps morale and cohesion. The notion that is should be forbidden because a minority got their feelings hurt is the new idea.

 

[uconnfan68]

Out of respect for his tremendous accomplishment and that of his team, I choose to let him speak for himself. I believe that is how he would want it. Although he has a way with words, he is also a man of action and accomplishment which is why he is so successful. Winning a National Championship in his 2nd year as a head coach considering all the odds is proof to me that God answers KO's prayers.

Whose God do they believe in? If it isn't yours, you have a problem. And that, in a nutshell, is the real problem. It's ok to be generic about it, its the details that no one needs to hear.

 

[ShakyTheMohel]

A coach isn't introducing a foreign element. The team chaplain and pregame prayer was always a part of football. The reasons mirror why the same exists in armies, most men want it and the leader feel it helps morale and cohesion. The notion that is should be forbidden because a minority got their feelings hurt is the new idea.

Sometimes change is okay. Evolving is usually perceived as a good thing. Because it was done years ago does not mean it should be done today. We have many examples where resistance has evolved to acceptance (women....race..and now gays). Our culture has changed. People have decided (including the majority) that just because more people believe in something...it doesn't mean the beliefs or desires of the minority should be ignored. It's being inclusive and fair to everyone.....not just the majority.

Seems like a good thing to me.

 

[Palatine]

Human civilization was largely a bi-product of organized religion. Virtually every early ruler sought the blessing of the dominant religious leader or appointed himself as such.

So without organized religion, there is no football because there is no human civilization. Think of this as a historic fact rather than a religious argument.

 

[Samoo]

Fixed that for you:

Organized religion was largely a bi-product of human civilization's need to explain the unexplainable. Virtually every early ruler sought to utilize the dominant religious leader or appointed himself as such in order to control his people.

There is no football without human civilization. Think of this as a historic fact rather than a religious argument.

 

[SubbaBub]

A coach isn't introducing a foreign element. The team chaplain and pregame prayer was always a part of football. The reasons mirror why the same exists in armies, most men want it and the leader feel it helps morale and cohesion. The notion that is should be forbidden because a minority got their feelings hurt is the new idea.

I believe all universities have chaplains. If a player was religious, I wouldn't have any issue with a coach, professor, or administrator directing them there for counsel or even doing it themselves if they felt comfortable doing that.

The issue is an authority figure at a public state-run facility make religion an integrated part of the program either directly or through their influence over there charges. So, Dabo and Jones crossed the line. No big deal provided they are more careful and make whatever changes are necessary.

This would not be an issue at a private religious school like Notre Dame.

 

[RioDog]

Judging by the amount of blasphemous expletives shouted by me at the TV during a typical game, their seems to be a lot.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Sometimes change is okay. Evolving is usually perceived as a good thing. Because it was done years ago does not mean it should be done today. We have many examples where resistance has evolved to acceptance (women....race..and now gays). Our culture has changed. People have decided (including the majority) that just because more people believe in something...it doesn't mean the beliefs or desires of the minority should be ignored. It's being inclusive and fair to everyone.....not just the majority.

Seems like a good thing to me.

In this case the atheists want the force of the state to impose their will. Not all change comes naturally.

 

[Samoo]

In this case the atheists want the force of the state to impose their will. Not all change comes naturally.

Kinda similar to desgregation, women's voting rights and a host of other issues.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Kinda similar to desgregation, women's voting rights and a host of other issues.

And Dredd Scott, Roe, Corporate Persons. I can cherry pick too.

 

[temery]

A coach isn't introducing a foreign element. The team chaplain and pregame prayer was always a part of football. The reasons mirror why the same exists in armies, most men want it and the leader feel it helps morale and cohesion. The notion that is should be forbidden because a minority got their feelings hurt is the new idea.

There are military chaplains for all religions. And not for nothing, but my family member who fought in wars came back having lost their faith in a higher power.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

There are military chaplains for all religions. And not for nothing, but my family member who fought in wars came back having lost their faith in a higher power.

Mine came back believing in all of them.

 

[temery]

Mine came back believing in all of them.

They should coach football.

 

[Palatine]

In the beginning men were hunter gatherers. They had no permanent settlements.

Then, they discovered a place in the stream where the water was still. This place collected the fruit that was washed downstream and it sat in one place. Over time, this fruit naturally fermented making alcohol. When the hunter gatherers discovered this place and drank the water, an amazing thing happened. They became drunk. Having no experience with state of mind, some were frightened, some excited and some had, what can be described as, a religious experience.

One thing they agreed on, this is a place they should protect, a special place, a holy place.

Over time, they learned how to use this place to make the special water. While some went out to hunt or gather others stayed behind to guard and produce the special water. A division of labor developed. The ones who knew the secrets of producing the elixir held a high place in the group. The became shaman and priests. This place became developed, a settlement. And civilization was born.

First, nature produced alcohol. And that begot religion. And religion begot civilization. And civilization begot football.

Amen.

 

[Confident Carl]

I believe all universities have chaplains. If a player was religious, I wouldn't have any issue with a coach, professor, or administrator directing them there for counsel or even doing it themselves if they felt comfortable doing that.

The issue is an authority figure at a public state-run facility make religion an integrated part of the program either directly or through their influence over there charges. So, Dabo and Jones crossed the line. No big deal provided they are more careful and make whatever changes are necessary.

This would not be an issue at a private religious school like Notre Dame.

In conjunction to what you expressed their are National Campus Organizations that exist at UCONN,
Students can voluntarily get involved with any number of Religious/Cultural groups on campus. Here are just a few.

CHRISTIANS - Campus Crusade for Christ and Athletes in Action.



MUSLIMS - Muslim Student Association

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/uconnmsa

JEWS -Jewish Student Association

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/jsa/about

MORMONS -Later Days Saints Student Association (No wonder Brigham Young scheduled a home & home LOL!)

http://www.dailycampus.com/news/mormon-students-start-on-campus-association-1.3097338#.U1pwmfldW5I

ATHIESTS & AGNOSTICS -Free Thinkers

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/freethinkersuconn

GAY & LESBIAN - Rainbow Center

http://rainbowcenter.uconn.edu/

BLACKS - African American Cultural Center

http://www.aacc.uconn.edu/

LATINOS -Puerto Rican/Latin American Cultural Center

http://www.latino.uconn.edu/organizations.html

ASIANS - Asian American Cultural Center

http://asacc.uconn.edu/organizations/students.php

LARGER LIST -Here is an even more comprehensive list I found listing 72 campus organizations

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organiz...BeginsWith&SelectedCategoryId=0&CurrentPage=2

 

[temery]

That's the way it should be, and no coach should be barred from participation. I don't think anyone here disagrees.

In conjunction to what you expressed their are National Campus Organizations that exist at UCONN,
Students can voluntarily get involved with any number of Religious/Cultural groups on campus. Here are just a few.

CHRISTIANS - Campus Crusade for Christ and Athletes in Action.



MUSLIMS - Muslim Student Association

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/uconnmsa

JEWS -Jewish Student Association

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/jsa/about

MORMONS -Later Days Saints Student Association (No wonder Brigham Young scheduled a home & home LOL!)

http://www.dailycampus.com/news/mormon-students-start-on-campus-association-1.3097338#.U1pwmfldW5I

ATHIESTS & AGNOSTICS -Free Thinkers

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organization/freethinkersuconn

GAY & LESBIAN - Rainbow Center

http://rainbowcenter.uconn.edu/

BLACKS - African American Cultural Center

http://www.aacc.uconn.edu/

LATINOS -Puerto Rican/Latin American Cultural Center

http://www.latino.uconn.edu/organizations.html

ASIANS - Asian American Cultural Center

http://asacc.uconn.edu/organizations/students.php

LARGER LIST -Here is an even more comprehensive list I found listing 72 campus organizations

https://uconntact.uconn.edu/organiz...BeginsWith&SelectedCategoryId=0&CurrentPage=2

 

[Husky25]

In the beginning men were hunter gatherers. They had no permanent settlements.

Then, they discovered a place in the stream where the water was still. This place collected the fruit that was washed downstream and it sat in one place. Over time, this fruit naturally fermented making alcohol. When the hunter gatherers discovered this place and drank the water, an amazing thing happened. They became drunk. Having no experience with state of mind, some were frightened, some excited and some had, what can be described as, a religious experience.

One thing they agreed on, this is a place they should protect, a special place, a holy place.

Over time, they learned how to use this place to make the special water. While some went out to hunt or gather others stayed behind to guard and produce the special water. A division of labor developed. The ones who knew the secrets of producing the elixir held a high place in the group. The became shaman and priests. This place became developed, a settlement. And civilization was born.

First, nature produced alcohol. And that begot religion. And religion begot civilization. And civilization begot football.

Amen.

"Our whole universe was in a hot dense state. Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...

The Earth began to cool, The autotrophs began to drool, Neanderthals developed tools, We built a wall (we built the pyramids), Math, science, history, unraveling the mysteries, That all started with the big bang!" - BNL

While I am more or less a lapsed Catholic (i.e. I don't regularly go to church), I still practice some of the rituals. However, knowing a little about the conflict between the church and science (Galileo, anyone?) I tend to side with science, while use faith and spirituality to fill in the gaps that cannot be explained by physical science.

That said, I don't expect the rest of those in my tailgate group to come to that conclusion, just as they don't expect me to Thank Jesus along with them should Puyol split the uprights from 45 yards out.

And I think really that is the crux of the argument at hand...

 

[Palatine]

I don't think Jesus cares if Puyol makes or misses. But it Puyol's right to express his religious views freely either way. That right is protected in the constitution which says.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Note that it says nothing about football coaches. Except , like others protected by this document they are free to exercise their religion however they wish. They are free to worship in any way they want. And they are free to invite their players to church.

The fact that the Supreme Court has lost its way and made a bunch of idiotic laws that actually go against that phrase doesn't override it. The constitution is the higher authority.

 

[Husky25]

That was, is, and will never be the argument...ever. (it's also not entirely true)!!!!

Coaches and players at a public school are not barred from worship. Puyol can point to the heavens and cross himself after a successful kick if he so chooses. Tim Tebow can praise Jesus before every sideline interview question. Wonderful. Ivan Rodriguez is free to cross himself whenever he stepped into the batters box. Whatever. Karl Malone is free to say a little prayer before each free through. Who cares? No one will ever say anything about any of it.

Coaches of teams in the public realm (Public universities, public high schools, Town leagues, etc.) are also free to invite their players to church. That is still on this side of the line. They cross that line, however, if a player feels obligated against their wishes to accept the invitation for fear of consequence (whatever that may be).

Now to the untrue part.

The Court stated that "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinions, they may with practices." For example, if one were part of a religion that believed in vampirism, the First Amendment would protect one's belief in vampirism, but not the practice.

Basically one is free to practice whatever religion that floats their boat, up to and including the exact instance where it infringes on the rights of others. As a libertarian, I don't understand how that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

That is still on this side of the line. They cross that line, however, if a player feels obligated against their wishes to accept the invitation for fear of consequence (whatever that may be).
.

For all I know that may be the legal standard but it's pretty dumb base the law on how one person feels. Try proving that someone doesn't feel one way or another.

 

[Husky25]

For all I know that may be the legal standard but it's pretty dumb base the law on how one person feels. Try proving that someone doesn't feel one way or another.

Next time, read and comprehend the ENTIRE post before taking part of it out of context and replying.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Next time, read and comprehend the ENTIRE post before taking part of it out of context and replying.

Which part of my opinion took you out of context?