Religion in football

[junglehusky]

It would take hours to recite the overwhelming evidence that the constitution does not prohibit any person in any context from expressing and practicing their religion (including public offcials). A wall between state and religion is not a term found in the constitution, nor even surfaced until much later in a Supreme Court decision that failed to follow precedent. Justice Story (a framer and Supreme Court justice) made it clear from day 1 that while all religions were to be permitted, the Christian faith was conceived as being an essential and necessary part of a healthy and strong country. The current abuse and cleansing off religion from public space is part of an ongoing assualt by progressives to knock down Western culture, which they perceive to be the origins of all human suffering and unfairness. I for one and sick and tired of it, and have no intention standing silent to the intolerance of the iconoclasts wrapped in progessivism.

If our football coach can be fired, then what about the professors attacking kids for espousing anti-Christian views like the UConn professor harassing kids or the Eastern professor.

LMAO! That was hilarious.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for the rally to knock down Western Culture.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Wow, just wow. So, if I fired you for not sharing my particular brand of faith or just gave you the Milton treatment, that'd be OK with you? It's amazing that the self-proclaimed are some of the most intolerant people on the planet. You get to harass people at will, but if anyone protests it's warp speed to victimland.

Let's make this as simple as possible. Do whatever you want, the rest of us don't care. Pray, spout whatever ancient nonsense you think justifies your existence, thank Jesus after every breath on any street corner in America, just don't bother the rest of us with it in your official capacity as a member of a government organization.

On the last page someone linked that the UCONN President invited Dawkins to educate the campus on atheism. Now you were outraged then too right or is that somehow not part of her official capacity as member of etc.

 

[BlueDogs]

LMAO! That was hilarious.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for the rally to knock down Western Culture.

res ipsa

 

[CL82]

Wow, just wow. So, if I fired you for not sharing my particular brand lack of faith or just gave you the Milton treatment, that'd be OK with you? It's amazing that the self-proclaimed far left are some of the most intolerant people on the planet. You get to harass people at will, but if anyone protests it's warp speed to victimland.

Let's make this as simple as possible. Do whatever you want, the rest of us don't care. Pray, spout whatever ancient nonsense you think justifies your existence, thank Jesus after every breath on any street corner in America Be self-centered and self-obsessed, live in a dog-eat-dog world where whatever you can get away is fine... if you don't get caught, be so insecure and so unhappy with yourself that you consider any outward act of faith by others to be a personal offense to you, just don't bother the rest of us with it in your official capacity as a member of a government organization.

I'm okay with your post, if you are okay with the above.

 

[SubbaBub]

On the last page someone linked that the UCONN President invited Dawkins to educate the campus on atheism. Now you were outraged then too right or is that somehow not part of her official capacity as member of etc.

I don't know anything about this. If it is part of some sensitivity training or as a part of the counseling center, I'd be OK with it, just as I would for any denomination. If its for a required class, then no.

But the equivalence you seek, is if he was the football coach and suggested his players not attend mass, then I would have the same huge problem anyone should have if the same FB coach suggests his players should attend mass.

See the difference?

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I don't know anything about this. If it is part of some sensitivity training or as a part of the counseling center, I'd be OK with it, just as I would for any denomination. If its for a required class, then no.

But the equivalence you seek, is if he was the football coach and suggested his players not attend mass, then I would have the same huge problem anyone should have if the same FB coach suggests his players should attend mass.

See the difference?

Yeah one is positive energy and the other is negative.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

This sentence expresses a profound misunderstanding of the first amendment that is, sadly, far too commonly held.

Now that you've exposed my lack of understanding, any chance you'll explain it to me? I've mentally just latched onto the phrase "separation of church and state" and decided what that means to me.
To me there are a couple of topics in life I generally don't get into with people; religion and politics. People can be very passionate about both and they're not the kind of topics where a middle ground can be reached.

 

[freescooter]

Dawkins is a noted scholar and writer who came to the university to speak. That's what is supposed to happen at universities. People are supposed to hear various sides of issues and ultimately make up their own minds. Historically other speakers and writers have appear there as well who are Christian and others who are of other faiths. But here's a huge difference. this was an open event offered to the student body and the public. Folks were free to go or not go with no potential consequences. That is way different from the situation in Dabo's football team. He holds prayer meetings, church days, it all crosses the line. That seems pretty easy to see. But again, nobody is requiring him to attend a Catholic Mass, or read the Koran. Nort will they. Nor is anyone saying that a player can't bless himself, thank his Lord & Savior, or any of that. Or players can't have Bible study that they organize. Nor will they.

When I read about, or see players doing these things, I am reminded of Red Auerbach's story about his discussion with his friend Cardinal Richard Cushing, the then Catholic Archbishop of Boston. Red says, "Cardinal, I notice all the boys from the Catholic schools cross themselves before they shoot foul shots. Does that help them?" the Cardinal responded, "Of course it helps...if they're good foul shooters."

 

[huskysupporter]

Yeah one is positive energy and the other is negative.

Oof.

 

[SubbaBub]

Yeah one is positive energy and the other is negative.

Are you intimating that not being dogmatically religious is negative?

 

[CL82]

Now that you've exposed my lack of understanding, any chance you'll explain it to me? I've mentally just latched onto the phrase "separation of church and state" and decided what that means to me.
To me there are a couple of topics in life I generally don't get into with people; religion and politics. People can be very passionate about both and they're not the kind of topics where a middle ground can be reached.

Sure. If you are serious PM me, and I'd be happy to discuss it.

 

[freescooter]

to our Notre Dame friend, their situation is very different. If they want to have a team Mass before each game, and require attendance, that is quite a different situation. Just as if Baylor wants to have mandatory Baptist chapel attendance, Fine. Those are private universities, with religious affiliations. You know that going in and you at least should know that there will be at least some expectation to participate in a religious community. Clemson is a public institution. Neither it nor its employees ought to be using their positions to proselytize for a given faith or a specific denomination, for that matter. I suspect my Episcopalian friend would find some of what Dabo preaches to be at best questionable as would I as a Catholic. Should we, or our kids, be coerced to attend religious services that we find problematic, (or more correctly, in error according to the teachings of our respective branches of Christianity) as a condition for playing football? And we're both members of Christian churches. Imagine if we wwere talking about Muslims or Jews or some other non-western religion.

 

[temery]

On the last page someone linked that the UCONN President invited Dawkins to educate the campus on atheism. Now you were outraged then too right or is that somehow not part of her official capacity as member of etc.

Can't find it. Got a link?

 

[freescooter]

Can't find it. Got a link?

Richard Dawkins spoke as part of the Presidents Distinguished Lecture Series at UConn on April 9. though Dawkins is best known probably for his book on atheism, he is a distinguished professor of evolutionary biology and a Fellow of the Academy of Science. From what I can tell this is a new series which will bring major speakers to campus. Hillary Clinton recently participated in the Fusco Lecture. Previous speakers in this series included Doris Kearns Goodwin , the historian and author. There are a number of other "major lectures" that bring scholars or major public figures to campus. This is a good thing and an important part of education. Nobody should be outraged that a variety of speakers come to UConn. You should be outraged if a range of speakers don't come. While I don't know the religious convictions of many of those who gave various lectures, there is at least one Catholic priest among those who gave the Sackler lecture. Based on her book about growing up in Brooklyn in the 1950s, Doris Kearns Goodwin was at least raised Catholic.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

Richard Dawkins spoke as part of the Presidents Distinguished Lecture Series at UConn on April 9. though Dawkins is best known probably for his book on atheism, he is a distinguished professor of evolutionary biology and a Fellow of the Academy of Science. From what I can tell this is a new series which will bring major speakers to campus. Hillary Clinton recently participated in the Fusco Lecture. Previous speakers in this series included Doris Kearns Goodwin , the historian and author. There are a number of other "major lectures" that bring scholars or major public figures to campus. This is a good thing and an important part of education. Nobody should be outraged that a variety of speakers come to UConn. You should be outraged if a range of speakers don't come. While I don't know the religious convictions of many of those who gave various lectures, there is at least one Catholic priest among those who gave the Sackler lecture. Based on her book about growing up in Brooklyn in the 1950s, Doris Kearns Goodwin was at least raised Catholic.

Dawkins canvasses the US getting his picture taken with University presidents while giving his stock speech against religion. It's their way of publicly chest thumping See? We're on your side to the first tier universities and their liberal base. If he visited the campus back in 1985 when he was doing actual science, it would have been a normal biology lecture that didn't make anyone's radar.

But I didn't hear the difference. Could or could not Diaco announce "You should all go see Dawkins speak Thursday night. I think it will benefit the team to have players that are clear thinking individuals not burdened by superstition"? Does the blessing of 'noted scholar' cure all your first amendment concerns?

 

[Palatine]

LMAO! That was hilarious.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm late for the rally to knock down Western Culture.

Denial, the highest form of liberalism.

 

[Adios]

Denial, the highest form of liberalism.

Besides you and uconnbill, who is voting for Sarah Palin?

 

[Excalibur]

Now that you've exposed my lack of understanding, any chance you'll explain it to me? I've mentally just latched onto the phrase "separation of church and state" and decided what that means to me.
To me there are a couple of topics in life I generally don't get into with people; religion and politics. People can be very passionate about both and they're not the kind of topics where a middle ground can be reached.

He'll tell you that the phrase doesn't exist in the Constitution, and conclude from this fact that the Establishment Clause is of no importance . . .

The best thing to do is read what the Founding Fathers actually have to say on the matter.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm okay with your post, if you are okay with the above.

Interesting that you would find his views self-centered. I'm pretty sure that he's not the one who thinks a supreme being actually cares what he does on a day to day basis.

 

[SubbaBub]

Dawkins canvasses the US getting his picture taken with University presidents while giving his stock speech against religion. It's their way of publicly chest thumping See? We're on your side to the first tier universities and their liberal base. If he visited the campus back in 1985 when he was doing actual science, it would have been a normal biology lecture that didn't make anyone's radar.

But I didn't hear the difference. Could or could not Diaco announce "You should all go see Dawkins speak Thursday night. I think it will benefit the team to have players that are clear thinking individuals not burdened by superstition"? Does the blessing of 'noted scholar' cure all your first amendment concerns?

It's outside his purview as FB coach, he shouldn't be making these kinds of recommendations. But let's say he did and let's say the speaker (never heard of him) is the evangelizing atheist you say he is, then it would absolutely not be appropriate. To say otherwise would be inconsistent. Something I take pride in.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I've heard some radical versions of the first amendment but not so much as 'no gov official may make a public recommendation concerning religion.' That sounds out of sync with other parts of the first amendment.

 

[SubbaBub]

I've heard some radical versions of the first amendment but not so much as 'no gov official may make a public recommendation concerning religion.' That sounds out of sync with other parts of the first amendment.

No, it doesn't. A government employee acting in their official capacity in a position of direct or indirect authority is the defacto embodiment of the government. The establishment clause prohibits this as it is the use of gov't sanctioned authority to endorse a religion, even if it is by dissuasion from all others.

FB Coach can't imply or directly encourage a player toward or away from religious activities. Now a music teacher can, provided the player in question is not one of their students or hold any other authority over the player (i.e. academic advisor).

It's not really that complicated. Many try to fashion their argument around what they would like to happen. In your professional capacity, keep your beliefs to yourself. Same applies to your stamp collection or your cats. I don't need to hear it.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

No, it doesn't. A government employee acting in their official capacity in a position of direct or indirect authority is the defacto embodiment of the government. The establishment clause prohibits this as it is the use of gov't sanctioned authority to endorse a religion, even if it is by dissuasion from all others.

FB Coach can't imply or directly encourage a player toward or away from religious activities. Now a music teacher can, provided the player in question is not one of their students or hold any other authority over the player (i.e. academic advisor).

It's not really that complicated. Many try to fashion their argument around what they would like to happen. In your professional capacity, keep your beliefs to yourself. Same applies to your stamp collection or your cats. I don't need to hear it.

Well I guess someone does believe it's a general gag order. But it isn't, not in the minds of its authors anyway. It forbids things like sectarianism and compulsion. You can't establish denomination X as an official church, or force people to attend. It certainly doesn't mean that congress can't have a chaplain even if he comes from denomination X.

 

[Palatine]

No, it doesn't. A government employee acting in their official capacity in a position of direct or indirect authority is the defacto embodiment of the government. The establishment clause prohibits this as it is the use of gov't sanctioned authority to endorse a religion, even if it is by dissuasion from all others.

FB Coach can't imply or directly encourage a player toward or away from religious activities. Now a music teacher can, provided the player in question is not one of their students or hold any other authority over the player (i.e. academic advisor).

It's not really that complicated. Many try to fashion their argument around what they would like to happen. In your professional capacity, keep your beliefs to yourself. Same applies to your stamp collection or your cats. I don't need to hear it.

It only applies to the FEDERAL government. There is nothing in the constitution about state government. A true liberal interpretation of the constitution would allow state government to be theocracies.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

It only applies to the FEDERAL government. There is nothing in the constitution about state government. A true liberal interpretation of the constitution would allow state government to be theocracies.

paging the 14th amendment...