Religion in football

[uconnbill]

Surprise, mother* *er. This is a non-denominational country. No one religion is privileged over any other, regardless of how populous, loud, ignorant, or obnoxious its members are.

I never said one religion is better than another my statement is about the country as a whole.

Happy Easter to you!

 

[whaler11]

Don't you guys get the south?

The south is different because their majority finds it acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion.

The south is different. Can't you get that?

 

[Confident Carl]

The quickest way to get Kevin Ollie to leave UCONN is to shutter him about his Christian faith. It's simply who he is. Ollie lives out his faith in thought, word and deed. Trouble making Atheist groups tire me with their antagonistic rhetoric and divisive tactics.

 

[Husky25]

The quickest way to get Kevin Ollie to leave UCONN is to shutter him about his Christian faith. It's simply who he is. Ollie lives out his faith in thought, word and deed. Trouble making Atheist groups tire me with their antagonistic rhetoric and divisive tactics.

Have you read what this thread is about? Yours is the first post that mentions Ollie or the possibility of shuttering his faith. This thread has nothing to do with either. Different sport, different institution, Different region of the country, all.

 

[huskysupporter]

The quickest way to get Kevin Ollie to leave UCONN is to shutter him about his Christian faith. It's simply who he is. Ollie lives out his faith in thought, word and deed. Trouble making Atheist groups tire me with their antagonistic rhetoric and divisive tactics.

You do understand the difference between Kevin Ollie and the situation at Clemson, correct?

 

[uconnbill]

Don't you guys get the south?

The south is different because their majority finds it acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion.

The south is different. Can't you get that?

Actually the narrow minded folks are on here. As someone else said keep this anti Christian and lose a coach like Kevin Ollie. His faith means a lot to him and he talks about all the time. I guess that bothers you, because of your continued complaining about this.

 

[temery]

The quickest way to get Kevin Ollie to leave UCONN is to shutter him about his Christian faith. It's simply who he is. Ollie lives out his faith in thought, word and deed. Trouble making Atheist groups tire me with their antagonistic rhetoric and divisive tactics.

You'd be very wrong to characterize all those who disagree with you, as atheisists. I realize it is needed to support your position, but you'd still be wrong.

 

[whaler11]

Actually the narrow minded folks are on here. As someone else said keep this anti Christian and lose a coach like Kevin Ollie. His faith means a lot to him and he talks about all the time. I guess that bothers you, because of your continued complaining about this.

I don't know what you don't get.

Kevin Ollie can be as faith driven as he likes. He talks about it plenty and I've never seen anyone take offense.

Kevin Ollie as an employee of the State of Connecticut can't create an atmosphere where people of other religions either are discriminated against or could show why they would feel discriminated against.

That the south has larger majorities of Christians who have no problem discriminating against people does not make it better to most people who aren't delirious.

I'm a white male. You sound like I would if I complained that my employer has a diversity policy.

You and a few others can't wrap your head around that you want the state to allow you to discrimate against people and when you get push back you take the insane stand that you are being discriminated against.

 

[SubbaBub]

I never said one religion is better than another my statement is about the country as a whole.

Happy Easter to you!

Actually, that's exactly what you are implying.

 

[Husky25]

Actually the narrow minded folks are on here. As someone else said keep this anti Christian and lose a coach like Kevin Ollie. His faith means a lot to him and he talks about all the time. I guess that bothers you, because of your continued complaining about this.

So the quickest way to drive out UConn's National Champion head coach is to tell him that he can no longer do something that he wasn't doing in the first place. That's an interesting way of making a point...A point that didn't need to be made, seeing as Kevin Ollie has exactly zero to do with this thread.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ok, can we all calm down? Hopefully we can all agree that Clemson is a public school and there for the 1st amendment applies to it as the government. That's the easy part. Also, easy, government employee can go to church and pray on his own time. No issues.

Now the tricky part. One of the foremost tenets of many "flavors" of Christianity is evangelization. I am sure you have heard "evangelical" as a word used in association with many Christian churches. So, it is entirely likely that evangelization is integral to his faith. That he cannot freely exercise his religion without evangelizing. Now, does that conflict with his role at a government institution? Probably, yes. A person at the DPW can't use that role to evangelize when you go get a new driver's license for example. But the line isn't a black and white line here. I think the coach could have church retreats or do other things, perhaps off-season or outside of the framework of the team, and include players in those. It's not an easy case in either direction.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Coaches can evangelize all they want outside of a public university. They can take a sabbatical and travel the world preaching and proselytizing. They can express their personal beliefs and thankfulness to whatever deity they worship in discussions that are clearly limited to their personal beliefs and not aimed at players. What they should not and cannot do is exert any influence over the religious activities of athletes under their control. A coach is not some random person that approaches people and says "I'd like to share with you my faith." They are people who have direct supervisory responsibility over subordinates (athletes) and should not leverage that in any way (just as a boss in a private or public sector environment should not) to guide or influence the subordinates' exercise of faith.

If there's any doubt about the line of voluntary versus influenced - don't do it. It's fine if a player shares the same religion and attends the same church on their own. However, setting up bus trips to "church days" and announcing them at team meetings definitely can be perceived as exerting influence. Some will not feel comfortable if they don't join in such a visible activity arranged by the coach. Creating an environment where someone could be uncomfortable about deciding whether to attend an overtly religious, clearly coach sponsored activity is hardly the path to voluntary practice of anyone's faith.

 

[kibblesnbits]

Actually the narrow minded folks are on here. As someone else said keep this anti Christian and lose a coach like Kevin Ollie. His faith means a lot to him and he talks about all the time. I guess that bothers you, because of your continued complaining about this.

No one has expressed a problem with Kevin Ollie being a man of faith. I think people respect him for that. But please show us where he's ever given the impression that he should influence his players exercise of their own personal faith.

As for whether Kevin would leave over this issue, you must think he's not very bright. He's been associated with UConn for more than 20 years. He's well aware of the environment and yet he chose to return after his NBA career was over. I don't see how he serves as any basis for the argument you put forth.

Edit: Many extremely religious people that I know say they prefer an environment where restrictions on influencing faith are in place - because they know how uncomfortable they would feel if placed in an environment where the powers that be were pushing (or very, very publicly making available) alternatives that they did not agree with.

 

[Adios]

Don't you guys get the south?

The south is different because their majority finds it acceptable to discriminate against people on the basis of their religion.

The south is different. Can't you get that?

It is acceptable up here, too, to a good extent. Just more low key. A good number of people are very intimidated, and whatever else, by a woman who wears a scarf on her head. It's sadly laughable. The bigotry up here is as dumb as it can get. Typical old school stuff. Except it's cool to be friends with those your ancestors (not you, just in general) used to hate.

 

[uconnbill]

No one has expressed a problem with Kevin Ollie being a man of faith. I think people respect him for that. But please show us where he's ever given the impression that he should influence his players exercise of their own personal faith.

As for whether Kevin would leave over this issue, you must think he's not very bright. He's been associated with UConn for more than 20 years. He's well aware of the environment and yet he chose to return after his NBA career was over. I don't see how he serves as any basis for the argument you put forth.

Edit: Many extremely religious people that I know say they prefer an environment where restrictions on influencing faith are in place - because they know how uncomfortable they would feel if placed in an environment where the powers that be were pushing (or very, very publicly making available) alternatives that they did not agree with.

Not yet, but I would bet sometime in the near future someone will have an issue with it.

No different than this going on almost daily in our country

 

[Adios]

Not yet, but I would bet sometime in the near future someone will have an issue with it.

No different than this going on almost daily in our country

Let's ask Native Americans who aren't Christians what they think of Christians.

 

[Husky25]

Very different, actually. Those who recite the pledge feel that the Stars and Stripes represents an indivisible republic, with liberty and justice for all. Some believe it exists under God. Those who don't, are not required to say the words.

Those who say that phrase are not preaching and those who do not are not forced to pay homage to a deity in which they do not believe. The Pledge is not a religious practice per se, but I believe that the groups suing over the phrase, "under God," are in the wrong. They are trying to sensor the former's right to utter the words: "under God."

 

[uconnbill]

Let's ask Native Americans who aren't Christians what they think of Christians.

Changing the subject to what fit your agenda? You should ask them how they feel about your religion of peace instead.

 

[Adios]

Changing the subject to what fit your agenda? You should ask them how they feel about your religion of peace instead.

Muslims were here before Christians. Guess who went on a murderous rampage? Look at who's whining like a victim, threatening civil war.

 

[Confident Carl]

You'd be very wrong to characterize all those who disagree with you, as atheisists. I realize it is needed to support your position, but you'd still be wrong.

The Freedom from Religion organization, an Ohio atheist watch dog group filed the complaint against Dabo Sweeny and Clemson. Organized watch dog groups such as that make trouble for people of Christian faith. Earnest Jones bolted after the Jesus in our huddle incident. I am fine with differences of opinion, it's the American way but some of these groups go too far,

 

[Adios]

The Freedom from Religion organization, an Ohio atheist watch dog group filed the complaint against Dabo Sweeny and Clemson. Organized watch dog groups such as that make trouble for people of Christian faith. Earnest Jones bolted after the Jesus in our huddle incident. I am fine with differences of opinion, it's the American Way.

The irony in what you said is that there's been plenty of Christians who made/make trouble for people who think differently, period. Look at the land we are on. According to plenty of them, I am a devil-worshiper. Perhaps that's why these atheist watch dog groups are going nuts? Why should we shove Christianity down atheist throats or limit their options when places like Clemson are for all? What really is hard to understand about that?

 

[temery]

You should ask them how they feel about your religion of peace instead.

Nice. That's very Christian of you.

 

[temery]

Muslims were here before Christians. Guess who went on a murderous rampage? Look at who's whining like a victim, threatening civil war.

What?

 

[Confident Carl]

Let's get back to sports guys. I enjoy sports because they take me away from the insanity of this world. This thread is going in the wrong direction.

 

[NotreDameJoe]

I'm seeing the word "feel" in a lot of these posts, implying the coach has to cater to people's feelings.

Rule by emotion, that can't be good.

 

[SubbaBub]

Very different, actually. Those who recite the pledge feel that the Stars and Stripes represents an indivisible republic, with liberty and justice for all. Some believe it exists under God. Those who don't, are not required to say the words.

Those who say that phrase are not preaching and those who do not are not forced to pay homage to a deity in which they do not believe. The Pledge is not a religious practice per se, but I believe that the groups suing over the phrase, "under God," are in the wrong. They are trying to sensor the former's right to utter the words: "under God."

This has nothing to do with the subject and everything at the same time. But first a few ground rules.

The pledge is not a religious activity.

The words, "under God" were not part of the original pledge. They were added by the same people who would have been in Salem or around during the Inquisition. Looking to establish their views as the benchmark for legitimacy.

The idea of pledging allegiance with zero consequences, requirements or means of validation is the moronic puffery it appears to be. I mean I made my pledges daily as a kid, am I good? What's the expiration date? Can I renegotiate?

Now to the point, this look at me aren't I a great American because I drone though these words before the local PTA meeting is simply an exercise of power by the person putting it on the agenda. It has no bearing on the business of the day. Just like your religion has no bearing on the football field.

If a coach wants the teach the values of sacrifice, togetherness, respect, humility, etc. He can do so without bringing the icons and dogma of his particular faith into the discussion. This is what KO does and I assume Geno and Diaco.

Guys like Swinney, simply lack the vocabulary and imagination to use different words and keep Sunday Mass out of the locker room. It's not all that difficult a concept. People who think it's anti-religion or anti-Christian are missing the point. In America, a captive audience shouldn't be subjected to the personal religious tenets and rituals by authority figures. Nor should it be required directly or indirectly as a condition of participation. The First Amendment protects us from that kind of thing.

 

[Husky25]

This has nothing to do with the subject and everything at the same time. But first a few ground rules.

The pledge is not a religious activity.

The words, "under God" were not part of the original pledge. They were added by the same people who would have been in Salem or around during the Inquisition. Looking to establish their views as the benchmark for legitimacy.

The idea of pledging allegiance with zero consequences, requirements or means of validation is the moronic puffery it appears to be. I mean I made my pledges daily as a kid, am I good? What's the expiration date? Can I renegotiate?

Now to the point, this look at me aren't I a great American because I drone though these words before the local PTA meeting is simply an exercise of power by the person putting it on the agenda. It has no bearing on the business of the day. Just like your religion has no bearing on the football field.

If a coach wants the teach the values of sacrifice, togetherness, respect, humility, etc. He can do so without bringing the icons and dogma of his particular faith into the discussion. This is what KO does and I assume Geno and Diaco.

Guys like Swinney, simply lack the vocabulary and imagination to use different words and keep Sunday Mass out of the locker room. It's not all that difficult a concept. People who think it's anti-religion or anti-Christian are missing the point. In America, a captive audience shouldn't be subjected to the personal religious tenets and rituals by authority figures. Nor should it be required directly or indirectly as a condition of participation. The First Amendment protects us from that kind of thing.

Agreed...except:

"under God," was added to the pledge as the Cold War was ramping up by an act of Congress. It was meant to show "Freedoms" in the face of the atheist tenants of Communism.

I also said it "religiously" as part of the homeroom morning exercises. It was as regular as hanging up my coat and putting my Fall Guy lunch box on the shelf. The Pledge was the "I'm late" benchmark (through 8th grade). We also sang My Country 'Tis of Thee (less and less as voices changed), but this and The Pledge were just words. As we got older and into high school, this fact became more and more apparent. They would repeat the Pledge over the loud speaker every morning, but hardly anyone in my homeroom observed it.

When I go to Town Council Meetings, it is obviously that not everyone says the phrase. The volume is much lower for those two words than the rest of The Pledge, but there is room in the cadence to say it if you so choose. It is what it is, but saying, "under God" in the pledge has nothing to do with building religious retreats into methods of preparing a gameplan for North Carolina State.

 

[temery]

Agreed...except:

"under God," was added to the pledge as the Cold War was ramping up by an act of Congress. It was meant to show "Freedoms" in the face of the atheist tenants of Communism.

I also said it "religiously" as part of the homeroom morning exercises. It was as regular as hanging up my coat and putting my Fall Guy lunch box on the shelf. The Pledge was the "I'm late" benchmark (through 8th grade). We also sang My Country 'Tis of Thee (less and less as voices changed), but this and The Pledge were just words. As we got older and into high school, this fact became more and more apparent. They would repeat the Pledge over the loud speaker every morning, but hardly anyone in my homeroom observed it.

When I go to Town Council Meetings, it is obviously that not everyone says the phrase. The volume is much lower for those two words than the rest of The Pledge, but there is room in the cadence to say it if you so choose. It is what it is, but saying, "under God" in the pledge has nothing to do with building religious retreats into methods of preparing a gameplan for North Carolina State.

As a teacher, I am required by law to lead my class in the pledge. I also teach them the history of the pledge.

A pledge written by a socialist, including the "Nazi salute," intended to sell flags.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Muslims were here before Christians. Guess who went on a murderous rampage? Look at who's whining like a victim, threatening civil war.

Remember when you said you didn't start this thread to stir the pot? That may be the funniest post in these 3 pages.

 

[Adios]

Remember when you said you didn't start this thread to stir the pot? That may be the funniest post in these 3 pages.

I don't care to stir a pot. But it sure is pretty sad how ethnocentric humans can get.