Red Sox prospects

[The Viking]

I like WAR, but it is idiotic that he is actually ahead of Gardner in WAR. OPS+ for Betts 105 OPS+ for Gardner 130


Betts: .265 AVG .317 OBO .438 SLG 52 R 10 HR 48 RBI 13 SB

Gard: .288 AVG .370 OBO .454 SLG 72 R 11 HR 49 RBI 15 SB


.

I guess it depends on what site you use - Fangraphs have them as tied in WAR, Baseball Ref has Betts ahead - both sites have Betts as being better defensively this year than Gardner which accounts for the gap being closed.
Gardner's defensive sabermetric stats have been trending downward over the past 3 years or so.

 

[FartMan69]

I don't know why it has to be limited to outfielders. I think every team certainly has a player or two in their early 20's that put up .265 / 10 /40 type stats.

Do the Yankees?

 

[The Viking]

Okay does this make him a borderline all star?

I guess it depends how you define borderline. If they take 5-7 OF and he's 9th in WAR for OF, then yeah. I'd say so. But others may disagree.

 

[The Viking]

As Deep said so are 2-3 players on every team then at least. Gregorious just made the list too then?

you're really going to compare Gregorius to Betts?

 

[The Viking]

Henry Owens was solid tonight. Keeps the ball down nicely and hangs in there. The fastball is 89-92 but his change is seemingly pretty good. Keep them in the game although there were some hard hit balls at people, but that's part of pitching. 1st inning also saw seeing eye ground balls for a run for the Yanks. Like his stuff, dying to see Severino for us tomorrow.

Liked his performance overall. I'd like to see him locate his fastball a bit better though and the 0-2 curveball to the LF (forgot his name) was brutal pitch selection....and that started his quick exit.

 

[Stainmaster]

you're really going to compare Gregorius to Betts?

I feel like most uninformed Yankees fans would take S. Drew over him.

 

[mauconnfan]

you're really going to compare Gregorius to Betts?

Numbers are close Viking, age isn't that far either. Like what I've seen from him the last 2 months could be coming into his own so in this case yes why not? Is Betts 13 steals impressing me? They are both very good defenders and once Didi got over the replacing Jeter shock he has been real good. Let's not pretend they are that much different.

 

[mauconnfan]

I feel like most uninformed Yankees fans would take S. Drew over him.

Only an idiotic Red Sox fan would even come up with a reply like that but as always, typical

 

[mauconnfan]

Liked his performance overall. I'd like to see him locate his fastball a bit better though and the 0-2 curveball to the LF (forgot his name) was brutal pitch selection....and that started his quick exit.

Not sure how you can forget Young's name since he hits about .380 this year vs lefties and yes, to him you can't throw that pitch. But his location will be huge with only 89-92 on the fastball. For the most part he stayed down with it but made a couple mistakes. Thought he was pretty decent, looked like a kid.

 

[60'sfan]

Age is very important when evaluating a prospect.

Margot is 20 years old playing in AA. The average age of a pitcher in AA is almost 25. His OPS is nearly that of the league average. He's seen by scouts as a potential 5-tool player who can hit, run and field. He also had a shoulder injury that he tried to play through early in the year which probably affected him before landing on the DL.

Guerra is 19 playing in a league average of 21.5. I agree with you about his BB/K ratio but as a defensive-first player, he's slugging at a damn impressive .488 clip including 13 HR's while being regarded as a very good SS defender.

Devers is 18 in the same league and putting up an OPS better than the league average.

Moncada is on fire right now, .350 avg in the last 30 days....maybe the hottest hitter in the league and will likely be promoted to high A in the next month with a 2016 start at AA...at the age of 20.

all is good, relax. May have to wait 2 years for these guys to start knocking, but that's OK.

In reviewing Baseball America's mid-season report on the top 50 prospects, the Sox have no one in the top 10. Their top prospect(#11) according to BA is 20 year-old Yoan Moncada. The comment is that the scouts have been under-whelmed by him so far. He is a great base stealer 25/27,but has committed way too many errors at second base. You are correct that he is hitting much better recently and it may be that he was rusty after having missed nearly a year. He has good size and could be an outfielder down the road.

The number 15 prospect is 18 year old Rafael Devers who is playing 3B. Devers is very young, appears to have a good bat but like Moncada has struggled defensively. Last year at 17 he was a sensation in the Rookie league but is struggling offensively at single A Greenville. He is probably several years away from Fenway.

The number 24 prospect is 20 year-old Manuel Margot. He was just promoted from Advanced A Salem to AA Portland. Margot is very fast and a great outfielder but has not shown much offensively so far. He could be the second coming of JBJ. He lacks good size at 5' 11" and 170 lbs.

The number 35 prospect is 24 year-old left-hander Brian Johnson. He has good size (6' 4" 245 lbs) but just an average fast ball. He has good control and has been solid everywhere he has pitched. He has been pitching at 3A Pawtucket and had one start with the Sox. He could be a middle of the rotation starter down the road but has some injury concerns. He just went on the DL with arm issues and spent most of his first year in the minors on the DL.

The final prospect for the Sox at #47 is 23 year-old Henry Owens. He is another left-hander and has good size at 6' 6" and 220 lbs. He made his major league debut last night in a tough venue and gave the Sox five solid innings. His fast ball is just average although he hit 93 last night and may be putting on some muscle. He has some control issues that he will have to overcome to become a reliable starter.

So there it is. Some could look at this list and be excited. I, just like some of the scouts, am under-whelmed. I see no "impact' players who are about to burst on the scene. The Sox have some great young players in Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart and Rodriquez, but they are a mediocre team who will need to invest heavily in the free-agent market if they want to be competitive in the near future.

 

[Deepster]

Even if you don't believe Betts is a borderline all-star yet, which is fine, it's funny how the pitchforks came out with that comment.

The first post in the thread commented how Sox fans overhype their young players....then Betts gets referred to as a borderline all star a few posts afterwards. Seems like my comment was aptly timed and appropriate.

 

[Excalibur]

I don't know why it has to be limited to outfielders. I think every team certainly has a player or two in their early 20's that put up .265 / 10 /40 type stats.

Betts' "advanced" metrics point to him being a better player than I think he has been thus far, but I think it's nuts to say every team has a player like him at a similar age.

Through their full season's worth of at bats, and at age 22,

Betts: .274/15 HR/66 RBI/86 Runs/20 SB/.774 OPS

Robinson Cano: .297/14 HR/62 RBI/78 Runs/ 1 SB/.778 OPS

Better average for Cano, more steals for Betts. Otherwise, at 22, they were the same player.

 

[Stainmaster]

Only an idiotic Red Sox fan would even come up with a reply like that but as always, typical

I missed your denial of my assertion, so I'm going to assume that it's true...

 

[mets1090]

I think it's pretty clear that mau is just trolling super hard. Even if he believes what he's saying, I don't think he even cares about the debate so much as he just wants to get you guys fired up lol. Fairly classic mau.

 

[mauconnfan]

Betts' "advanced" metrics point to him being a better player than I think he has been thus far, but I think it's nuts to say every team has a player like him at a similar age.

Through their full season's worth of at bats, and at age 22,

Betts: .274/15 HR/66 RBI/86 Runs/20 SB/.774 OPS

Robinson Cano: .297/14 HR/62 RBI/78 Runs/ 1 SB/.778 OPS

Better average for Cano, more steals for Betts. Otherwise, at 22, they were the same player.

Alright I have a huge sum of cash in mind to say Betts never becomes Cano - you in Ex?

 

[mauconnfan]

I think it's pretty clear that mau is just trolling super hard. Even if he believes what he's saying, I don't think he even cares about the debate so much as he just wants to get you guys fired up lol. Fairly classic mau.

I know I would take Betts over Drew in a second. After that there is little to NO trolling involved. Why would there be?

 

[Stainmaster]

I know I would take Betts over Drew in a second. After that there is little to NO trolling involved. Why would there be?

Because fans of first place teams enjoy needling fans of last place teams? Fairly standard procedure for discussing sports online IMO.

 

[The Viking]

The first post in the thread commented how Sox fans overhype their young players....then Betts gets referred to as a borderline all star a few posts afterwards. Seems like my comment was aptly timed and appropriate.

I don't know why anyone would embrace anything written in the first post as it was filled with pure BS.

Sort of like your inferences that every team has a couple of Mookie Betts on them.

 

[The Viking]

Numbers are close Viking, age isn't that far either. Like what I've seen from him the last 2 months could be coming into his own so in this case yes why not? Is Betts 13 steals impressing me? They are both very good defenders and once Didi got over the replacing Jeter shock he has been real good. Let's not pretend they are that much different.

Betts career OPS is 774 and OPS+ of 113
Gregorius career OPS is 672 and OPS + is 86

Betts OBP is slightly higher and SLG is much higher

Betts was an offensive force at every minor league level.

Gregorius is 2-3 years older than Betts.

Not sure what you're seeing. I'm not saying Didi is a bad player, but I don't think most people would rate him up near Mookie.

 

[The Viking]

In reviewing Baseball America's mid-season report on the top 50 prospects, the Sox have no one in the top 10. Their top prospect(#11) according to BA is 20 year-old Yoan Moncada. The comment is that the scouts have been under-whelmed by him so far. He is a great base stealer 25/27,but has committed way too many errors at second base. You are correct that he is hitting much better recently and it may be that he was rusty after having missed nearly a year. He has good size and could be an outfielder down the road.

The number 15 prospect is 18 year old Rafael Devers who is playing 3B. Devers is very young, appears to have a good bat but like Moncada has struggled defensively. Last year at 17 he was a sensation in the Rookie league but is struggling offensively at single A Greenville. He is probably several years away from Fenway.

The number 24 prospect is 20 year-old Manuel Margot. He was just promoted from Advanced A Salem to AA Portland. Margot is very fast and a great outfielder but has not shown much offensively so far. He could be the second coming of JBJ. He lacks good size at 5' 11" and 170 lbs.

The number 35 prospect is 24 year-old left-hander Brian Johnson. He has good size (6' 4" 245 lbs) but just an average fast ball. He has good control and has been solid everywhere he has pitched. He has been pitching at 3A Pawtucket and had one start with the Sox. He could be a middle of the rotation starter down the road but has some injury concerns. He just went on the DL with arm issues and spent most of his first year in the minors on the DL.

The final prospect for the Sox at #47 is 23 year-old Henry Owens. He is another left-hander and has good size at 6' 6" and 220 lbs. He made his major league debut last night in a tough venue and gave the Sox five solid innings. His fast ball is just average although he hit 93 last night and may be putting on some muscle. He has some control issues that he will have to overcome to become a reliable starter.

So there it is. Some could look at this list and be excited. I, just like some of the scouts, am under-whelmed. I see no "impact' players who are about to burst on the scene. The Sox have some great young players in Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart and Rodriquez, but they are a mediocre team who will need to invest heavily in the free-agent market if they want to be competitive in the near future.

Are you related to Eeyore?

Pretty funny you're paraphasing makes me think they should be in the top 200 let alone top 50. Obviously someone sees something in them. Like I said what they are doing at their age level is important. I'm not going to rehash it all though.

 

[Deepster]

I don't know why anyone would embrace anything written in the first post as it was filled with pure BS.

Sort of like your inferences that every team has a couple of Mookie Betts on them.

Didn't we go through all this with Jackie Bradley Jr when Sox fans were whining about his service time and impending free agency in spring of 2013?

Betts is a nice player. Let's leave it at that for now.

 

[JSM1970]

Umm, can you actually read? Did you actually go to UConn? I hope not, it would devalue the school and my education.

I didn't list Betts if you see.

Every team has 2-3-4 upcoming players they talk about in their top 10. Sox act like 8+ will be major contributors. Not realistic, that was my point. Several of these guys aren't going to be major factors.

Also, comparing Cano to Betts when Cano is having maybe his worst season ever?? What is the point? Odd, stupid.

Betts' "advanced" metrics point to him being a better player than I think he has been thus far, but I think it's nuts to say every team has a player like him at a similar age.

Through their full season's worth of at bats, and at age 22,

Betts: .274/15 HR/66 RBI/86 Runs/20 SB/.774 OPS

Robinson Cano: .297/14 HR/62 RBI/78 Runs/ 1 SB/.778 OPS

Better average for Cano, more steals for Betts. Otherwise, at 22, they were the same player.

I thought I had this clown on ignore. I think he feels like it's his job to gripe about anything and everything, as well as painfully exaggerate in all of his arguments. He said he was done with Rusney Castillo and officially named him a waste of money in another thread. Probably a fairweather guy who was attracted during one of the recent WS runs.

 

[Stainmaster]

Umm, can you actually read? Did you actually go to UConn? I hope not, it would devalue the school and my education.

I didn't list Betts if you see.

Every team has 2-3-4 upcoming players they talk about in their top 10. Sox act like 8+ will be major contributors. Not realistic, that was my point. Several of these guys aren't going to be major factors.

Also, comparing Cano to Betts when Cano is having maybe his worst season ever?? What is the point? Odd, stupid.

The sweet, sweet irony. You ask if we can "actually read" when you fail to notice that Betts and Cano were being compared "through their full season's worth of at bats, and at age 22,". You're the one devaluing your own education and making both UConn and Red Sox fans look horrible.

 

[mauconnfan]

Because fans of first place teams enjoy needling fans of last place teams? Fairly standard procedure for discussing sports online IMO.

Thats BS have you seen any posts discussing this? Nice try but you guys are looking for stuff that doesn't even exist. We've been better than the Sox all year and there has been little or nothing written by any Yankee fan bragging about this or first place. If the shoe were on the other foot I doubt it would be that way, that's what I will say about comparing fan bases.

 

[Excalibur]

Umm, can you actually read? Did you actually go to UConn? I hope not, it would devalue the school and my education.

I didn't list Betts if you see.

Every team has 2-3-4 upcoming players they talk about in their top 10. Sox act like 8+ will be major contributors. Not realistic, that was my point. Several of these guys aren't going to be major factors.

Also, comparing Cano to Betts when Cano is having maybe his worst season ever?? What is the point? Odd, stupid.

So much fail in this post . . . .

If you're going to try to insult someone's intelligence, you better make damn sure that you know what you're talking about, and that you actually took the time to read the post you're responding to.

Oh, and yes, I went to UConn. I'm one of the guys that increases the value of your degree.

 

[Excalibur]

Alright I have a huge sum of cash in mind to say Betts never becomes Cano - you in Ex?

He'll never hit for power like Cano once did, but I'd be in if we can figure out what metric we're using. I'll wager a round (and post-round round) at the CT golf course of the winner's choosing. Let's figure out how to judge it and revisit in five years if we're both still above ground . . .

 

[mauconnfan]

He'll never hit for power like Cano once did, but I'd be in if we can figure out what metric we're using. I'll wager a round (and post-round round) at the CT golf course of the winner's choosing. Let's figure out how to judge it and revisit in five years if we're both still above ground . . .

Good ending LOL........yeah perfect works out either way for us. I like my chances but know either way I will play golf, if above ground.

 

[Excalibur]

Good ending LOL...yeah perfect works out either way for us. I like my chances but know either way I will play golf, if above ground.

I like your chances, too, if I'm being honest . . .

 

[Danzz]

Betts' "advanced" metrics point to him being a better player than I think he has been thus far, but I think it's nuts to say every team has a player like him at a similar age.

Through their full season's worth of at bats, and at age 22,

Betts: .274/15 HR/66 RBI/86 Runs/20 SB/.774 OPS

Robinson Cano: .297/14 HR/62 RBI/78 Runs/ 1 SB/.778 OPS

Better average for Cano, more steals for Betts. Otherwise, at 22, they were the same player.

Betts needs to accept the fact that he is not a HR hitter and level out his swing a bit. Betts would improve his average giving him more opportunities to steal bases and the loss of a few HRs would be worth it. He is not Robinson Cano no matter what the numbers say.

 

[Stainmaster]

Just saw on Twitter that Yoan Moncada is 27-29 in SB attempts. Still a bust?