Red Sox prospects

-

intlzncster

i fart in your general direction
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
27,579
Likes
33,182
Now they need the Mookie Betts of pitching, because it is far from the deepest rotation. I feel like they used to have a surplus of rated pitching prospects, and now don't seem to have much. I don't hear about them anyway.

Gotta say, the kids are fun to watch though. All around the league as well. Seems to be a whole lot of good young players these days.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
1,190
Likes
406
Now they need the Mookie Betts of pitching, because it is far from the deepest rotation. I feel like they used to have a surplus of rated pitching prospects, and now don't seem to have much. I don't hear about them anyway.

Gotta say, the kids are fun to watch though. All around the league as well. Seems to be a whole lot of good young players these days.
The Sox did a good job of holding on to their prospects over the last few years resulting in a team of young solid position players - Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Swihart, Vazquez, Shaw. The temptation was to trade some of them for players who could help right away but to their credit they resisted. I hope they continue to do the same.

Unfortunately the system has not produced much in the way of pitching. Eduardo Rodriquez could develop into a top of the rotation starter but he is not there yet. Owens is struggling to find his way and Brian Johnson has anxiety issues. Beyond them, the top prospect is 18 year old Anderson Espinoza who is with Greenville but is at least 3-4 years away. They do have an interesting left-hander named Bobby Poyner who has put up some amazing stats in his brief career. He is 23 years old, attended Florida and has been used strictly as a closer. His ERA is 1.18 with 13 saves in 13 opportunities. He has walked 3 and stuck out 35 in just 29 innings. He was promoted from Greenville to Salem recently.

Their positions players are struggling a bit. On the Salem team (Advanced A), Moncado is hitting below .300 and Devers is having trouble staying over .200. Andrew Benintendi was recently promoted to AA Portland and is struggling to get going there.

The Sox have a fun team to watch but will need more pitching to get over the top. It is unlikely to be coming from the minors unfortunately.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
60s, I'm begging you to look at stats more than batting average.

Moncada has a 421 OBP, an 896 OPS and has 36 steals. His average is .299, so you worry about him hitting below 300? Whaaaaaat?

I'm shocked he isn't at AA yet, but I'd imagine he will be in the next few weeks.

Devers has had a rough start, but he's 4 years below league average and his BB/K ration is something like 20/35, which is pretty good for a guy with a low average. He'll be fine...as will Benintendi.

There is no pitching help on the horizon though. That much is clear.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,749
Likes
3,089
Now they need the Mookie Betts of pitching, because it is far from the deepest rotation. I feel like they used to have a surplus of rated pitching prospects, and now don't seem to have much. I don't hear about them anyway.
Pitchers prospects of late,
Espinoza: only 17.
Rodriguez: knee doesn't work.
Owens: can't throw a strike.
Johnson: anxiety leave.
Barnes: busted as a starter.
Kopech: working his way back after a PED suspension and breaking his hand fighting his teammate.
Ranaudo: traded for Robbie Ross Jr.
Webster and Rubby De La Rosa: traded for Wade Miley.

Believe all of those guys had been ranked as a top 100 prospect at least one point in their career.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,749
Likes
3,089
The Sox did a good job of holding on to their prospects over the last few years resulting in a team of young solid position players - Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Swihart, Vazquez, Shaw. The temptation was to trade some of them for players who could help right away but to their credit they resisted. I hope they continue to do the same.
But yet they traded two top 50 prospects and and a lottery ticket 18 year old started for closer. Craig Kimbrel is a good player but I hated the trade at the time and still do. You don't give up that kind of value for someone who pitches 60 innings a year.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
1,190
Likes
406
60s, I'm begging you to look at stats more than batting average.

Moncada has a 421 OBP, an 896 OPS and has 36 steals. His average is .299, so you worry about him hitting below 300? Whaaaaaat?

I'm shocked he isn't at AA yet, but I'd imagine he will be in the next few weeks.

Devers has had a rough start, but he's 4 years below league average and his BB/K ration is something like 20/35, which is pretty good for a guy with a low average. He'll be fine...as will Benintendi.

There is no pitching help on the horizon though. That much is clear.
Please don't think that I've written off Moncado, Devers or Benintendi. And believe me I look at a lot more than Batting Average. I have always looked at the ratio of walks to strikeouts as being one of the more important statistics. For example Mookie, JBJ and Benintendi all walked more than they struck out while at Salem. Almost all of the group of Betts, Bogaerts. Shaw, JBJ, Swihart hit well over .300 and they were all 20 or 21 except for Bogaerts 19 and Shaw 22. Moncado is 21.

Generally, Moncado is not doing as well as that group and he has committed a lot of errors. I think that based on what they paid for him, the Sox management was expecting more. Now, he may still end up becoming a star in the majors but that will depend a lot on his work ethic. He could also end up being another Rusney. He is a base-stealing machine, however.
 

intlzncster

i fart in your general direction
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
27,579
Likes
33,182
Pitchers prospects of late,
Espinoza: only 17.
Rodriguez: knee doesn't work.
Owens: can't throw a strike.
Johnson: anxiety leave.
Barnes: busted as a starter.
Kopech: working his way back after a PED suspension and breaking his hand fighting his teammate.
Ranaudo: traded for Robbie Ross Jr.
Webster and Rubby De La Rosa: traded for Wade Miley.

Believe all of those guys had been ranked as a top 100 prospect at least one point in their career.
Absolutely, that's what I'm talking about. Guys like Betts, Bogaerts, et al are panning out. Further back with guys like Pedroia and (traded) Rizzo. Yeah, they've got position player flame outs (Lars Anderson/Middlebrooks). But very, very few of the pitchers are doing so. Even guys they've traded further back like Casey Kelly aren't much. Who was the last great Sox pitcher to come out of the system? Masterson for a couple years in Cleveland? My memory sucks for these things. I still have high hopes for Rodriguez though.

I know it's stupid to compare farm systems, but look at how many pitchers the Mets churn out. It's ridiculous. Sox need to hire some of their pitching scouts or something. Of course, I've zero desire to be the Mets in general, so there's that.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
60's...there is no way Moncada is a bust like Rusney.

Moncada
Age: 21.0 (just turned 21 two weeks ago)
OPS 896
BB/K: 40/56
SB: 34 of 40

A+ Level
Average Age: 22.5
Average OPS: 699

He'll be in AA soon going up against 23, 24 year old pitchers and I'll be interested to see how he does. I have no problems with young kids going up and struggling, Benintendi is getting his butt kicked at AA but he's 21 too. That's what happens sometimes when you push kids.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,749
Likes
3,089
Absolutely, that's what I'm talking about. Guys like Betts, Bogaerts, et al are panning out. Further back with guys like Pedroia and (traded) Rizzo. Yeah, they've got position player flame outs (Lars Anderson/Middlebrooks). But very, very few of the pitchers are doing so. Even guys they've traded further back like Casey Kelly aren't much. Who was the last great Sox pitcher to come out of the system? Masterson for a couple years in Cleveland? My memory sucks for these things. I still have high hopes for Rodriguez though.

I know it's stupid to compare farm systems, but look at how many pitchers the Mets churn out. It's ridiculous. Sox need to hire some of their pitching scouts or something. Of course, I've zero desire to be the Mets in general, so there's that.
One issue is Trey Ball completely flopping. I'd say that Lester is the last great pitcher to be produced. Masterson did not have a long shelf-life, Buchholz is bipolar. As far as the Mets comparison I can't take that too serious, after all, the Blue Jays saw fit to trade Noah Syndergaard for RA Dickey! 2010 draft is also an issue:
20. Kolbrin Vitek - Red Sox
34. Aaron Sanchez - Jays
36. Bryce Brentz - Red Sox
38. Noah Syndergaard - Jays
39. Anthony Ranaudo - Red Sox
43. Taijuan Walker - Mariners

Good example of how to not pick up an ace, provided by the Red Sox.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
It will be interesting tonight to see what happens under the Dombrowski regime....some of the main parts are still here in the drafting process but Dombrowski said he likes when organizations take chances on players...so the high floor low ceiling guy may not be a common thread for the draft this year.

Saw that this BC pitcher is climbing the ladder quick - reliever turned starter who is touching mid 90s late in games too...I saw a mock that had Seattle taking him in the first round just ahead of us..
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
2,749
Likes
3,089
It will be interesting tonight to see what happens under the Dombrowski regime....some of the main parts are still here in the drafting process but Dombrowski said he likes when organizations take chances on players...so the high floor low ceiling guy may not be a common thread for the draft this year.

Saw that this BC pitcher is climbing the ladder quick - reliever turned starter who is touching mid 90s late in games too...I saw a mock that had Seattle taking him in the first round just ahead of us..
Signing Groome would. Legitimate shot at being the best pitcher in this draft.
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
Huge pick. Some sites had him mocked recently as #1 overall in the draft. Apparently a GM in the past few months said he was the best high school pitching prospect since Kershaw. Kid's still only 17.

With him, Espinosa and Kopech (if he can get his head screwed on straight), that's 3 big time young power arms...of course they're all 2-3 years away at least...
 

intlzncster

i fart in your general direction
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
27,579
Likes
33,182
Signing Groome would. Legitimate shot at being the best pitcher in this draft.
What are the chances? Is that why he dropped? Possibility of not signing?
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
They will sign him. Kid probably hurt his chances in negotiations over the past month saying he had enough of school and oh by the way was a huge Sox fan and huge Pedroia fan.
I don't think the difference between his asking pric and the slot plus money moving between picks will be a problem
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2011
Messages
3,052
Likes
4,153
Maturity issues played a role. HS pitchers can be risky alone as is with or without maturity issues. But dombrowski is the kind of GM who likes to go big or go home. In terms of physical ability he is a beast according to scouts.
 

intlzncster

i fart in your general direction
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
27,579
Likes
33,182
Maturity issues played a role. HS pitchers can be risky alone as is with or without maturity issues. But dombrowski is the kind of GM who likes to go big or go home. In terms of physical ability he is a beast according to scouts.
I like this philosophy in baseball. So many guys in the minors, you never know who will pan out. Might as well take as many high upside kids as you can get.
 

Dooley

Done with U-con athletics
Joined
Oct 7, 2012
Messages
9,981
Likes
16,398
When it was the Sox turn to pick, I thought they'd go college arm just because they are in a win now window. No question Groome had the highest upside of anyone available at 12. Will take probably 2-3 years to properly develop him as a SP but I can also see the Sox rush him up and use him in the pen in a tighter timeframe.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
26,999
Likes
31,164
I know it's only a tiny morsel (not the BB recruit) but the kid Benintendi looks to be a wonderful hitter, maybe the best "true" hitter of all the youngsters. Great swing and hits it where its pitched which is a lost art amongst the up and coming. I would love what I see from him thus far.

Offense is looking good for the future in Boston I would say.
 
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
1,190
Likes
406
I know it's only a tiny morsel (not the BB recruit) but the kid Benintendi looks to be a wonderful hitter, maybe the best "true" hitter of all the youngsters. Great swing and hits it where its pitched which is a lost art amongst the up and coming. I would love what I see from him thus far.

Offense is looking good for the future in Boston I would say.
Benintendi is the real deal, I think. He is almost a five tool player. The only area where he may come up short is hitting for power. While in the minors he had a great BB/SO ratio. I like that stat. Other Sox players that have done well there are Bradley, Betts, Bogaerts and Swihart. Yoan Moncado, who many believe could be better than them all, has not done well in this ratio. I hope I'm wrong but I am not as high on him as many others are, but I get a lot of things wrong.

I also like this stat for pitchers. More K's than innings pitched and a five to one ratio over walks is impressive for me. The Sox have a couple of guys doing well here but none of them are close.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
26,999
Likes
31,164
Benintendi is the real deal, I think. He is almost a five tool player. The only area where he may come up short is hitting for power. While in the minors he had a great BB/SO ratio. I like that stat. Other Sox players that have done well there are Bradley, Betts, Bogaerts and Swihart. Yoan Moncado, who many believe could be better than them all, has not done well in this ratio. I hope I'm wrong but I am not as high on him as many others are, but I get a lot of things wrong.

I also like this stat for pitchers. More K's than innings pitched and a five to one ratio over walks is impressive for me. The Sox have a couple of guys doing well here but none of them are close.
Sweet stroke will eventually hit for some power with maturity I believe.
 

intlzncster

i fart in your general direction
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
27,579
Likes
33,182
I know it's only a tiny morsel (not the BB recruit) but the kid Benintendi looks to be a wonderful hitter, maybe the best "true" hitter of all the youngsters. Great swing and hits it where its pitched which is a lost art amongst the up and coming. I would love what I see from him thus far.

Offense is looking good for the future in Boston I would say.
Defense is looking strong too.

Unfortunately, pitching looks like a royal turd. And you can't get anywhere without it. They only have a couple of good guys in the farm right now. When I look at a team like the Mets, who just churns out aces, I'm flabbergasted.
 

Top